please change Rhino's passive

[BancoEstado]

how this beautiful WF have the worst passive skil, even a mod can give that passive skill to all the others WFs. thanks for read

[Kawalorn]

Yeah, DE should do a general pass on passives and first abilities of earlier frames, as it's kind of ridiculous how weak they are compared to the newer frame stuff.

Just compare Fireball, Shock or Smite to Dagath's Wyrd Scythes.

[MotherVicar]

Origineel geplaatst door Kawalorn:

Yeah, DE should do a general pass on passives and first abilities of earlier frames, as it's kind of ridiculous how weak they are compared to the newer frame stuff.

Just compare Fireball, Shock or Smite to Dagath's Wyrd Scythes.

but does it matter in a game this easy?
I mean its worth it to change it for gameplay purposes, Smite I use but I never use fireball or shock, just use the 4th ability.

Apart from that, what DE f's up continuously is giving too much stuff and part of the problem is you guys, the players, asking for more stuff.....

Like idk if you remember, but the original point of the excilus slot was to give mods that otherwise arnt worth it a place in this game, like Warm Coat or something.
Then they went ahead and added the Drift mods aka bye bye yet again Warm Coat....

Passives are suppose to be just this sorta fun little extra defining feature of a warframe, not some super gameplay altering power.
This is why im happy they did not go through with the first suggest passive of Qorvex giving every weapon added radiation damage, that is just insane.

There is a huge discrepancy in passives yes, and they do need to adjust that but im in favor of making them weaker...not stronger and put some thought into them because many just show a lack of creativity from the devs.

[Joker]

Origineel geplaatst door Macabruh:

Origineel geplaatst door Kawalorn:

Yeah, DE should do a general pass on passives and first abilities of earlier frames, as it's kind of ridiculous how weak they are compared to the newer frame stuff.

Just compare Fireball, Shock or Smite to Dagath's Wyrd Scythes.

but does it matter in a game this easy?
I mean its worth it to change it for gameplay purposes, Smite I use but I never use fireball or shock, just use the 4th ability.

Apart from that, what DE f's up continuously is giving too much stuff and part of the problem is you guys, the players, asking for more stuff.....

Like idk if you remember, but the original point of the excilus slot was to give mods that otherwise arnt worth it a place in this game, like Warm Coat or something.
Then they went ahead and added the Drift mods aka bye bye yet again Warm Coat....

Passives are suppose to be just this sorta fun little extra defining feature of a warframe, not some super gameplay altering power.
This is why im happy they did not go through with the first suggest passive of Qorvex giving every weapon added radiation damage, that is just insane.

There is a huge discrepancy in passives yes, and they do need to adjust that but im in favor of making them weaker...not stronger and put some thought into them because many just show a lack of creativity from the devs.

it does matter. rhino's passive is so useless and asinine that he may as well have no passive. in fact, if you use Kavat's Grace, you practically remove his passive. you actually just end up without a functioning passive. with Kavat's Grace, his passvie will not work at all since you can't hard land. i bring this example up because hard landings are a detriment to your performance and efficiency. any time you spend not killing is time wasted.

i know this is an extreme example, but i believe warframe is a numbers game that pushes the player to go for optimal efficiency. i base this belief on the numerous power creep weaons (and even warframes) that have been added over the years. also note (Elite) Sanctuary Onslaught, Steel Path, and the Circuit (easiest and fastest place to encounter levelcap). ESO is in fact what made the game's meta go from Crowd Control to Damage. Damage is King, and this conclusion was reached because of the addition of ESO. Rhino's passive does diddly squat for me when it comes to killing hordes of enemies.

sure, running Steel Path endurance and going for levelcap in this game is a waste of time when it comes to rewards, but plenty of people, for whatever reason, find that content useful. but even without accounting for min-maxxing, Warframe, at its current scale, meta, and content, doesnt offer the player any worthwhile or even remotely useful Passive Abilities with many of the older frames that actually help the player make the most of a given frame's capabilities.

i can also go all out from a temporal perspective. linking the current scale of the game, and looking to the numerous reworks of older frames, e.g. Nyx, many of the older frame's passives do not stack up or offer any helpful benefit to the player. back in 2012 and 2013, Rhino's passive might have seen much more use and utility due to the scale of the game back then. there was a reason excal had a super jump ability; because parkour was badly designed and implemented. but then bullet jumping was added and parkour was re-designed and streamlined. though the 'parkour' in the game isn't actually parkour at al.

in other words, games as a service change. they have to--nay, that modality is inappropriate, they must. if games as a service don't add and change, they die. Warframe sees much new content which keeps it alive. but the denying of changing the old makes it hard to justify sticking around. Passive Abilities included.

[Kawalorn]

Origineel geplaatst door Macabruh:

Origineel geplaatst door Kawalorn:

Yeah, DE should do a general pass on passives and first abilities of earlier frames, as it's kind of ridiculous how weak they are compared to the newer frame stuff.

Just compare Fireball, Shock or Smite to Dagath's Wyrd Scythes.

but does it matter in a game this easy?
I mean its worth it to change it for gameplay purposes, Smite I use but I never use fireball or shock, just use the 4th ability.

Apart from that, what DE f's up continuously is giving too much stuff and part of the problem is you guys, the players, asking for more stuff.....

Like idk if you remember, but the original point of the excilus slot was to give mods that otherwise arnt worth it a place in this game, like Warm Coat or something.
Then they went ahead and added the Drift mods aka bye bye yet again Warm Coat....

Passives are suppose to be just this sorta fun little extra defining feature of a warframe, not some super gameplay altering power.
This is why im happy they did not go through with the first suggest passive of Qorvex giving every weapon added radiation damage, that is just insane.

There is a huge discrepancy in passives yes, and they do need to adjust that but im in favor of making them weaker...not stronger and put some thought into them because many just show a lack of creativity from the devs.

If it's useless it's not fun to use. Make it have a use.

[MotherVicar]

Origineel geplaatst door Kawalorn:

Origineel geplaatst door Macabruh:

but does it matter in a game this easy?
I mean its worth it to change it for gameplay purposes, Smite I use but I never use fireball or shock, just use the 4th ability.

Apart from that, what DE f's up continuously is giving too much stuff and part of the problem is you guys, the players, asking for more stuff.....

Like idk if you remember, but the original point of the excilus slot was to give mods that otherwise arnt worth it a place in this game, like Warm Coat or something.
Then they went ahead and added the Drift mods aka bye bye yet again Warm Coat....

Passives are suppose to be just this sorta fun little extra defining feature of a warframe, not some super gameplay altering power.
This is why im happy they did not go through with the first suggest passive of Qorvex giving every weapon added radiation damage, that is just insane.

There is a huge discrepancy in passives yes, and they do need to adjust that but im in favor of making them weaker...not stronger and put some thought into them because many just show a lack of creativity from the devs.

If it's useless it's not fun to use. Make it have a use.

A "passive" per definition is not something you use.

[Joker]

Origineel geplaatst door Macabruh:

Origineel geplaatst door Kawalorn:

If it's useless it's not fun to use. Make it have a use.

A "passive" per definition is not something you use.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=andd1u1ZqsY

[Illusive Soul]

Origineel geplaatst door Macabruh:

A "passive" per definition is not something you use.

So you mean useless passive like Oberon can be ignored ? just because it is a passive so it can remain garbage ?

And really ? blaming player ask for more content ? it is normal player ask for more content, that is how you keep online game alive ,and you have to keep spam "game is easy " everywhere you go ? are you baiting ?

[MystMan]

It is indeed severely outdated. After all this time, now melee ground slam (heavy) attacks outperform it by a large margin without even needing to be at a high altitude.

Since his 1st and 4th abilities and current passive revolve around his "stomping rhinoceros knocking things down" theme, a better passive would be that enemies he knocks down (with abilities and weapons) stay on the ground twice as long before getting back up.

Such a passive gives him a unique strategic feature that sets him apart from other frames without it being OP.

[Raven]

Origineel geplaatst door Macabruh:

Origineel geplaatst door Kawalorn:

Yeah, DE should do a general pass on passives and first abilities of earlier frames, as it's kind of ridiculous how weak they are compared to the newer frame stuff.

Just compare Fireball, Shock or Smite to Dagath's Wyrd Scythes.

but does it matter in a game this easy?
I mean its worth it to change it for gameplay purposes, Smite I use but I never use fireball or shock, just use the 4th ability.

Apart from that, what DE f's up continuously is giving too much stuff and part of the problem is you guys, the players, asking for more stuff.....

Like idk if you remember, but the original point of the excilus slot was to give mods that otherwise arnt worth it a place in this game, like Warm Coat or something.
Then they went ahead and added the Drift mods aka bye bye yet again Warm Coat....

Passives are suppose to be just this sorta fun little extra defining feature of a warframe, not some super gameplay altering power.
This is why im happy they did not go through with the first suggest passive of Qorvex giving every weapon added radiation damage, that is just insane.

There is a huge discrepancy in passives yes, and they do need to adjust that but im in favor of making them weaker...not stronger and put some thought into them because many just show a lack of creativity from the devs.

After all the power creep over the years, it does matter. Abilities should all feel nice to use, instead of some tapering off against level 20 enemies even with 300% ability power.
Similarly passives should feel like they actually do something passively useful for the frame. Has anyone ever even seen Frost's passive freeze someone? I sure haven't. Meanwhile all the relatively new frames tend to have really good passives that compliment the rest of their kit or at least have a noticeable effect.

[Kawalorn]

Origineel geplaatst door Macabruh:

A "passive" per definition is not something you use.

It's literally not. Passive just means that it happens on it's own, not if you can use it or not. Me launching explosives as Atlas and not staggering myself due to his passive is me using it.

[MotherVicar]

Origineel geplaatst door Illusive Soul:

Origineel geplaatst door Macabruh:

A "passive" per definition is not something you use.

So you mean useless passive like Oberon can be ignored ? just because it is a passive so it can remain garbage ?

And really ? blaming player ask for more content ? it is normal player ask for more content, that is how you keep online game alive ,and you have to keep spam "game is easy " everywhere you go ? are you baiting ?

If people keep asking for more power, which is the case here, then ill keep asking the same question yes, why?

The person I replied to complained about 'how weak they are".

[MotherVicar]

Origineel geplaatst door Kawalorn:

Origineel geplaatst door Macabruh:

A "passive" per definition is not something you use.

It's literally not. Passive just means that it happens on it's own, not if you can use it or not. Me launching explosives as Atlas and not staggering myself due to his passive is me using it.

1. You are not using "literally" correctly.
2. Yes, it happens on its own, thus you dont use it, you can make use of it, it will benefit you, but it per definition is not something you use.

In your example, you used a gun, you shot an explosive round, you did not get staggered because that is passively blocked, you did not have to press a button, you make use of it, but you did not use it yourself.

[Illusive Soul]

Origineel geplaatst door Macabruh:

If people keep asking for more power, which is the case here, then ill keep asking the same question yes, why?

ask your self why you even want to own an incarnons then ? you know the reason very well already, people just want their frame get more busted.

it really that hard to understand ? does a rich man need a very good reason to own a fastest car in the world ? no ,they get it for fun.

people just prefer useful passive on some frame,Rhino Passive is utter garbage and its a joke,its not weak,it is stupid.

[MotherVicar]

Origineel geplaatst door Illusive Soul:

Origineel geplaatst door Macabruh:

If people keep asking for more power, which is the case here, then ill keep asking the same question yes, why?

ask your self why you even want to own an incarnons then ? you know the reason very well already, people just want their frame get more busted.

it really that hard to understand ? does a rich man need a very good reason to own a fastest car in the world ? no ,they get it for fun.

people just prefer useful passive on some frame,Rhino Passive is utter garbage and its a joke,its not weak,it is stupid.

Read the previous reply, on the other thread, im not going to repeat myself.
And your analogies makes so little sense that it would take me too long to dissect it all.

Rhino's passive fits with his theme, that is just about all you could and SHOULD ask for.
Wukong's passive is insane, giving Zephyr 150% crit chance while airborn is also insane.

Im not denying there isnt an issue with passives, heck often a passive is just part of the frames abilities so its not really a passive at all, take Baruuk's "passive", that just isnt a passive.

But ok, lets change this around, why dont the people here make suggestions, lets see what the people come up with, frame, current passive, new passive, go for it.

[Kawalorn]

Origineel geplaatst door Macabruh:

Origineel geplaatst door Kawalorn:

It's literally not. Passive just means that it happens on it's own, not if you can use it or not. Me launching explosives as Atlas and not staggering myself due to his passive is me using it.

1. You are not using "literally" correctly.
2. Yes, it happens on its own, thus you dont use it, you can make use of it, it will benefit you, but it per definition is not something you use.

In your example, you used a gun, you shot an explosive round, you did not get staggered because that is passively blocked, you did not have to press a button, you make use of it, but you did not use it yourself.

You're not using "use" correctly. Sun burns on it's own. we use it to grow crops.
Listen, if you don't have anything useful to say, just stop posting, instead of desperately trying to sound smart to make up for the embarrassment of your first post.

If passives or skills don't do anything useful, they might as well not exist. Having Warframes with pretty much no passives and 3 skills is bad and should be fixed. That's all there is to be said.