Mixed feelings about Deep Archimedea

[JOKER]

I love the Deep Archimedea concept, but forcing us to use one of 3 random warframes and weapons in each category feels like another desperate and lazy way to "make the game difficult" and "balance the game", just as they previously did with grendel farm (no mods mode) and duviri (random warframes and weapons).

We farmed all these years to become stronger just to end up debuffing ourselves with these kind of stupid mechanics that won't allow us to use the setups WE WANT at their maximum potential

However, I kinda like how the one dimensional tryhard noobs won't be allowed (mostly) to use their meta Revenant+torid+laetum+glaive prime or whatever is the actual meta

[-Sköningen-]

Anakin lähetti viestin:

Im here just to tell y'all that I did completed it first try, with all the bonuses in less that 30 minutes with more than 50% of damage dealt in all 3 missions. (I had pretty trash choices though)

It was no "challenge" at all, so all your arguments that this game mode would be a challenge, just got destroyed by reallity.

If any of you still thinks this is a challenge, let me know and I'll show you how to build properly.

Anyway, as I said, have fun minmaxing all your mastery fodder for this "EnD gaMe ChaLLenge", is what most of you wanted.

I agree that it wasn't as challenging as I'd expected/hoped. That being said, I still enjoyed it a lot, and I gained a few cool new builds from it, so I definitely consider it a huge W from a gameplay perspective.

[-Sköningen-]

KitKat lähetti viestin:

Ha.
Yeah, i'd try to do all that with MY OWN CHOSEN gear. As a test to my own setup that I've spent time modding to my convenience and perfection. With randomizer nonsenese? Yeah, no. Not this time, DE.

And I see no point in doing it even with my own chosen gear, as I'm being locked out of the full reward. What's even the poin then? AFter all, I'll be wasting 2 "keys" to get 2 rewards... plus 3 Entrati Lanthorn as the third reward, if I don't pick any of the chosen randomizer gear. Might as well just do two regular netracell runs, without having to go through that nonsense for the same reward.

That's not true though. Even if you choose your entire loadout yourself, you're still spending two pulses for two silver rewards and one gold reward, making it more rewarding than two normal Netracell runs.

[tv]

at least the circuit is fun, Deep archim is....a slog

[Illusive Soul]

tv lähetti viestin:

at least the circuit is fun, Deep archim is....a slog

if only Circuit run award you forged archon shard under 20 minute.

[Voyant]

Using things you don't want to isn't a challenge, it's a chore.

This whole patch cycle has been a whole lot of hype with disappointment. Completely agree with OP and the "answer"

Western Gamers gravitate towards customizing their PC and building their style.

Creating modes like this is completely counter-intuitive and a horrible design decision. Sure have the Duviri for people who like that sorta thing, that's fine. But this "Play Warframe how we decide not how you want to" is completely at odds with the average gamer who just wants to do their thing and play their style.

It comes across as lazy and out of touch. It's the same b/s decision making that has us running around as an Operator/Drifter in story missions or playing as a grineer clone instead of playing as a WARFRAME in a game called... Warframe.

Was looking forward to 1999, now I'm extremely concerned with the creative direction after this, Duviri, and New War... Just seems like a pattern at this point.

[rk10flyers]

I retract what I said, this mode is insanely hard solo and definitely is pretty garbage haha. Although I should be able to unlock elite. The rewards don't really line up for the difficulty.

[-Sköningen-]

rk10flyers lähetti viestin:

I retract what I said, this mode is insanely hard solo and definitely is pretty garbage haha. Although I should be able to unlock elite. The rewards don't really line up for the difficulty.

Warframe is an MMO though. The game has cultivated an overarching individualistic demographic, but I don't see the harm with END GAME game modes where you're heavily incentivised to team up with other players. Not every person's cup of tea, of course, but I think it's still fair.

Voyant lähetti viestin:

Using things you don't want to isn't a challenge, it's a chore.

I'm not entirely sure what element differentiates people to the degree where our experiences of game elements become so radically different. Personally, I don't think in terms of "gear I want to use vs. not use." If there are any "wants" in the equation for me, it's a challenging game mode that forces me to play the game in a less carefree manner. That being said, I personally think the new game mode is a bit too easy, but still enjoyable. I had fun theorizing how to make the best use out of the trash options granted to me, and creating the builds is generally fun I think. Executing the missions and seeing the planning bear fruit was cool as well. I don't know... I feel like 99% of the game is geared toward free choice, essentially making any challenge self-imposed and lacking in proper reward structure, which isn't the same as a proper game mode.
I won't argue with your experience, but if it comes down to mindset then it's a bit lame, because I had fun and I'll keep having fun, lol

Also, unnerf literally everything you nerfed yday, DE.

[Illusive Soul]

Voyant lähetti viestin:

Using things you don't want to isn't a challenge, it's a chore.

This whole patch cycle has been a whole lot of hype with disappointment. Completely agree with OP and the "answer"

Western Gamers gravitate towards customizing their PC and building their style.

Creating modes like this is completely counter-intuitive and a horrible design decision. Sure have the Duviri for people who like that sorta thing, that's fine. But this "Play Warframe how we decide not how you want to" is completely at odds with the average gamer who just wants to do their thing and play their style.

It comes across as lazy and out of touch. It's the same b/s decision making that has us running around as an Operator/Drifter in story missions or playing as a grineer clone instead of playing as a WARFRAME in a game called... Warframe.

Was looking forward to 1999, now I'm extremely concerned with the creative direction after this, Duviri, and New War... Just seems like a pattern at this point.

anything that give player hard time in game count as challenges.

maybe DE really should choose level enemy up to 5k instead of just randomize gear also extremely forgiving in this new modes.

i am all in with different mode DE making,just because you hate slow game play like khal or drifter,doesn't mean everyone hate it.

[romy]

Anakin lähetti viestin:

We farmed all these years to become stronger

Exactly, time to show your experience instead of using only one loadout.

[Donitsi]

Illusive Soul lähetti viestin:

i am all in with different mode DE making,just because you hate slow game play like khal or drifter,doesn't mean everyone hate it.

I wonder how many actually hates their slow pace and actually their limited arsenal and... well, non-existing modding. That's what makes waframes so great. You can mod them and their weapons to fit your gameplay style

[Illusive Soul]

Donitsi lähetti viestin:

Illusive Soul lähetti viestin:

i am all in with different mode DE making,just because you hate slow game play like khal or drifter,doesn't mean everyone hate it.

I wonder how many actually hates their slow pace and actually their limited arsenal and... well, non-existing modding. That's what makes waframes so great. You can mod them and their weapons to fit your gameplay style

like using meta build and delete every enemy under few seconds,sure.

haters gonna hate,i having fun with both duviri and khal mission.

[Donitsi]

Illusive Soul lähetti viestin:

Donitsi lähetti viestin:

I wonder how many actually hates their slow pace and actually their limited arsenal and... well, non-existing modding. That's what makes waframes so great. You can mod them and their weapons to fit your gameplay style

like using meta build and delete every enemy under few seconds,sure.

haters gonna hate,i having fun with both duviri and khal mission.

I never had fun in Khal missions. I own Aeolak, all Grakatas, Karak, Ogris, Draggoon, Ignis, Argonak. Buzlok, Viper Wraith, Kraken, Quatz, Twin Grakatas, Vastilok, Ghoulsaw, Halikar Wraith, Waykor Sydon and Sheev but can't use any of these with their mod builds.

When this changes I will play Khal missions. They do not offer the same experience as warframes. My Dera Vandal has ridiculous +400% fire rate build. Useless above 20lvl missions but a stupid experiment to show off to low level players what you can do in this game.
I have all Arcanes and mods that have impact on Strength, Duration, Efficiency and range. Let me have that fun with Khal too. I have Battlefield series and other games if I want to play as Khal with limited power.

[DeadlyGrub]

Want to know a secret you can basically do win trading with these things. Someones the cripple aka has everything active and someone the carry then just trade roles. Friends op because you can run these things infinitely.

[W+M1 Pyro]

i dont really like using weapons and frames i dont personally like, including meta stuff. that said the mode is not that hard even with randoms, it just ok.

[Jhovias]

I have two problems with Deep Archimedea that aren't necessarily terrible when taken in isolation, but it's the fact that they've both been smashed together that makes the whole thing nonsense

Problem number 1: The random roll. This is the same problem as Duviri. A lot of the fun of the rest of Warframe is about making builds for specific content and finding synergies to work into. Specifically limiting your options means you can't pick things that work well together unless they get randomly rolled together, meaning in most cases you just have to pick whatever is most powerful on it's own out of the selections you're given. This is exactly opposed to the stated intention of the random selection in the first place (to make you consider things you wouldn't normally use). It would work so much better if it randomly rolled ONE THING that the mode rewards you for using and let you make a build around it. The way it stands now, the best solution is to just pick the most powerful frame out of your options that can get stuff done without weapons and ignore the weapon selection completely.

Problem number 2: The modifiers. Mainly, there's just too many of them to get all the rewards. Any individual one can be considered reasonable but the more you layer on top of each other, the less fun you're going to have trying to construct a build that can satisfy the conditions for all of them over three different game modes. What it leads to is a focus on constructing an "everybuild" that can handle all possible content in the game. This can also be fine in isolation, there's nothing wrong with making a single build that you play all the time irrespective of mission type, but as said previously, this flies in the face of the stated intention of the game mode. You're supposed to be wanting to use all the gear you've amassed over years of playing the game, not trying to find one setup that can do everything.

Like I said, neither problem is awful in isolation. Duviri isn't terrible, you just start a little underpowered compared to the rest of the game when you start a circuit run, but then decrees tend to buff you up again anyway and constructing an everybuild (i.e. "maining") is what a lot of players do in Warframe already. The issue is that in both cases, Deep Archimedea encourages the exact opposite behaviour from what Pablo claimed he wanted when he designed it, coupled with the fact that because both problems have been put in the same game mode, you can't satisfy either condition well - you want to use an everybuild to deal with all the limitations the game mode gives you, but it doesn't give you access to a good one because of the random selection.