Mixed feelings about Deep Archimedea

[JOKER]

I love the Deep Archimedea concept, but forcing us to use one of 3 random warframes and weapons in each category feels like another desperate and lazy way to "make the game difficult" and "balance the game", just as they previously did with grendel farm (no mods mode) and duviri (random warframes and weapons).

We farmed all these years to become stronger just to end up debuffing ourselves with these kind of stupid mechanics that won't allow us to use the setups WE WANT at their maximum potential

However, I kinda like how the one dimensional tryhard noobs won't be allowed (mostly) to use their meta Revenant+torid+laetum+glaive prime or whatever is the actual meta

[Illusive Soul]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von KitKat:

I still stand by my point that handicapping the player by RNG gear is not a good way to add extra challenge. Especially not with how much of a disparity there is between some of the warframes/weapons, where one is god-tier, the other is basolute trash tier.

And most definitely it is not a good idea to lock extra reward behind handicapping the player like that. Not in a game where you have thundreds of options/combinations of gear, let alone builds for that stuff.

i think its fine,again people that willing to do the challenge and deal with RNG bad gear,get more reward,its fair.

using your own build consider 0 challenge because with the right build you delete most enemy in a second,so giving us a buffed enemy wont change much.

if you dont want to play with RNG gear,there is also a Debuff challenge option for you to increase the progress,not a big deal.

[Guts]

It's clearly a way to make people NEED more warframe and weapon slots.

[Daniel]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Anakin:

However, I kinda like how the one dimensional tryhard noobs won't be allowed (mostly) to use their meta Revenant+torid+laetum+glaive prime or whatever is the actual meta

Do you know what tryhard means? let's check the https://www.dictionary.com/browse/tryhard:

noun
1. An underskilled or untalented participant attempting to compensate with sheer effort in order to succeed.
2. A person who participates in a game or other activity with too much enthusiasm, emotion, effort, or commitment

verb (used without object)
1. to make an obvious effort to excel, but achieve only moderate success, especially when measured against ambitious goals

It seems that all the definitions have to do with "putting in a lot of effort". Using revenat, torid, laetum or glaive does not require the slightest effort. Meta stuff generally requires no effort to use/to master. Therefore, you contradict yourself in your own words.

Also, why do you care about the equipment that other players use? Learn to cope with your frustations and insecurities. Much love :D

[JOKER]

1. Most of you have gotten lost in the semantics and have not understood the point. Forcing, pushing, persuading, it doesn't matter, the point is that WE WILL have to use the randomized Warframes and Weapons in order to get ALL the rewards INSTEAD of what WE WANT to use. Solution is simple: A weekly Ban of the 5 most used Warframes and 5 most used weapons for each category in the previous Deep Archimidea would be better. Example: if you use one of the 5 most used the last week you won't get the fifth reward. It's not perfect, but is definetly better.

2. Most of warframes are not used at all, check this official statistic: ( www.warframe .com/es/2023stats ). What's DE response to this Revenant, Wukong, Volt, Mesa Meta-reign? Their answer is not balance, nerf or reworks, instead, their answer is: "Let's randomize Duviri choices instead of balancing them", followed by "and now let's randomize Deep Archimidea too, this will make them use the 0.14% less used warframes that they are not using for a good reason."

3. Player performance in Warframe is not about "skill", (this is not Dark Souls), it is about knowledge, resources and using a proper setup.

4. Anyway, after reading some comments I have decided to accept this so called "ranDomiZeD harD enDgame", at the end of the day, I have EVERY SINGLE mod and primed mod maxed, all maxed arcanes, every Warframe minmaxed and the knowledge and resources to outperform most of endgame Meta-Kings with a poor setup, even working around the incoming shieldgating debuff option from Deep Archimidea.

5. But again, randomizing the options is a lazy way to fix their unbalanced game and overall, not a fun endgame. And as @Kitkat said, "it is a handicap, not a challenge" and "try to put them nails into a wall with a wrench?", there is even a Warframe Steam achievement named "Each Tool with Its Own Purpose". But be sure I'll get the 5 rewards every week, there's no doubt about it, even with this nonsense handicap.

6. However, don't expect me to carry anyone, if you get downed with your Caliban (0.16% used in 2023) and 3% enemy damage dealt, you're dead, I won't bother reviving you, is your fault for using the randomized warframes without meeting the performance requirements of "knowledge, resources and setup" and trying to play with the big boys.

[JOKER]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Daniel:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Anakin:

However, I kinda like how the one dimensional tryhard noobs won't be allowed (mostly) to use their meta Revenant+torid+laetum+glaive prime or whatever is the actual meta

Do you know what tryhard means? let's check the https://www.dictionary.com/browse/tryhard:

noun
1. An underskilled or untalented participant attempting to compensate with sheer effort in order to succeed.
2. A person who participates in a game or other activity with too much enthusiasm, emotion, effort, or commitment

verb (used without object)
1. to make an obvious effort to excel, but achieve only moderate success, especially when measured against ambitious goals

It seems that all the definitions have to do with "putting in a lot of effort". Using revenat, torid, laetum or glaive does not require the slightest effort. Meta stuff generally requires no effort to use/to master. Therefore, you contradict yourself in your own words.

Also, why do you care about the equipment that other players use? Learn to cope with your frustations and insecurities. Much love :D

Here we have a onedimensional revenant tryhard noob that took it personal.

[KitKat]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Anakin:

1. Most of you have gotten lost in the semantics and have not understood the point. Forcing, pushing, persuading, it doesn't matter, the point is that WE WILL have to use the randomized Warframes and Weapons in order to get ALL the rewards INSTEAD of what WE WANT to use. Solution is simple: A weekly Ban of the 5 most used Warframes and 5 most used weapons for each category in the previous Deep Archimidea would be better. Example: if you use one of the 5 most used the last week you won't get the fifth reward. It's not perfect, but is definetly better.

2. Most of warframes are not used at all, check this official statistic: ( www.warframe .com/es/2023stats ). What's DE response to this Revenant, Wukong, Volt, Mesa Meta-reign? Their answer is not balance, nerf or reworks, instead, their answer is: "Let's randomize Duviri choices instead of balancing them", followed by "and now let's randomize Deep Archimidea too, this will make them use the 0.14% less used warframes that they are not using for a good reason."

3. Player performance in Warframe is not about "skill", (this is not Dark Souls), it is about knowledge, resources and using a proper setup.

4. Anyway, after reading some comments I have decided to accept this so called "ranDomiZeD harD enDgame", at the end of the day, I have EVERY SINGLE mod and primed mod maxed, all maxed arcanes, every Warframe minmaxed and the knowledge and resources to outperform most of endgame Meta-Kings with a poor setup, even working around the incoming shieldgating debuff option from Deep Archimidea.

5. But again, randomizing the options is a lazy way to fix their unbalanced game and overall, not a fun endgame. And as @Kitkat said, "it is a handicap, not a challenge" and "try to put them nails into a wall with a wrench?", there is even a Warframe Steam achievement named "Each Tool with Its Own Purpose". But be sure I'll get the 5 rewards every week, there's no doubt about it, even with this nonsense handicap.

6. However, don't expect me to carry anyone, if you get downed with your Caliban (0.16% used in 2023) and 3% enemy damage dealt, you're dead, I won't bother reviving you, is your fault for using the randomized warframes without meeting the performance requirements of "knowledge, resources and setup" and trying to play with the big boys.

Finally, someone gets it.

[Daniel]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Anakin:

Here we have a onedimensional revenant tryhard noob that took it personal.

Your inferiority complex is fully justified.

[-Sköningen-]

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, my critique of some of you is clearly foreseen, but it doesn't make it less justified.
How can you possibly claim that limiting the options available to you isn't a legitimate method for increasing the difficulty of this _challenging, end-game_ game mode?
I feel like most of the blanket statements being thrown around are touching on literal dishonesty. If you've played the game enough to have a solid understanding of it, then it's so clearly obvious that allowing you to choose freely between all of your warframes will _literally_ remove every semblance of challenge any game mode could possibly pose, ever. Unless you want to artificially increase the mission times by throwing random bullet sponges at you left and right, then limiting your options is a _fine_ way to increase the overall difficulty. How could you not feel stimulated by the prospect of being granted limited options and _actually strategize_ (which is something your normal loadouts essentially made redundant long ago) in order to overcome the hurdles? Having the odds stacked against you, and utilizing all the tools available to you to make the absolute most out of the limited options for this, I repeat, END GAME CONTENT, is something I've really longed for in this game,

I don't tighten screws with hammers, but I don't typically tighten screws as a hobby. If I did, then I very well might eventually grow skilled enough to the point where I try tightening a screw with less efficient tools; you know, for the challenge. Why do you think there's an entire community of speedrunners who've run a game so much they up the challenge by doing it blindfolded?

But then, comparing this game to tightening a screw is very telling, and it's obvious some of you are approaching this game worlds apart from how I am.

[Illusive Soul]

i actually forgot to mention that Caliban actually quite useful on melting enemy armor,very under rated frame.

randomized gear just proved is the hardest difficulty because even Veteran like OP get annoyed loses his own build and cannot play the game anymore.

[KitKat]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Illusive Soul:

i actually forgot to mention that Caliban actually quite useful on melting enemy armor,very under rated frame.

randomized gear just proved is the hardest difficulty because even Veteran like OP get annoyed loses his own build and cannot play the game anymore.

But that's literally the whole point of Warframe. Finding the best suited gear for this or that game mode. It has nothing to do with "skill", stop snorting copium, this isn't CS:GO or some twitch-shooter, where "skill matters" or something.

In Warframe, you look for the best tool for the job, so to speak. You take a hammer to put in some nails, you're not doing it with your fists. You're using a screwdriver to put in some screws, you don't use a hammer for that. Because one is the intended best tool, while the other is inferior option. Sure, you still CAN do it, but... You'll have bloodied fists and those hammer-smashed-in screws won't hold for long either.

A forced randomizer is exactly the same - using an inferior tool for the job. And yes, it is forced, because otherwise you're not getting the full reward and thus there's no point in even doing this "Deep Archimedea" in the first place - just do regular Netracells, since they made the droptable there better anyway.

[Illusive Soul]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von KitKat:

But that's literally the whole point of Warframe. Finding the best suited gear for this or that game mode. It has nothing to do with "skill", stop snorting copium, this isn't CS:GO or some twitch-shooter, where "skill matters" or something.

In Warframe, you look for the best tool for the job, so to speak. You take a hammer to put in some nails, you're not doing it with your fists. You're using a screwdriver to put in some screws, you don't use a hammer for that. Because one is the intended best tool, while the other is inferior option. Sure, you still CAN do it, but... You'll have bloodied fists and those hammer-smashed-in screws won't hold for long either.

A forced randomizer is exactly the same - using an inferior tool for the job. And yes, it is forced, because otherwise you're not getting the full reward and thus there's no point in even doing this "Deep Archimedea" in the first place - just do regular Netracells, since they made the droptable there better anyway.

skill matters mean something then you have no issue using fully moded frame with garbage weapon then.

dont argue with me using the "right tool" when Warframe actually losing meaning about "using right tool"

you dont need Hammer to nail something,you can pick up a plank,or your boots for it,if the randomize really that hard for L4 like you,play the frame and weapon you want and get lower reward and accept that you cant handle your build got screwed around,talk so big and at the end a small challenge get annoying that much,MR rank really mean nothing these day.

cmon,it just 300+ LVL,not that hard.

if you not gonna do Deep Archimedea because you cant play the tool you need,then dont do it,id take the challenge like a chad and get the nice reward.

[KitKat]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Illusive Soul:

skill matters mean something then you have no issue using fully moded frame with garbage weapon then.

dont argue with me using the "right tool" when Warframe actually losing meaning about "using right tool"

you dont need Hammer to nail something,you can pick up a plank,or your boots for it,if the randomize really that hard for L4 like you,play the frame and weapon you want and get lower reward and accept that you cant handle your build got screwed around,talk so big and at the end a small challenge get annoying that much,MR rank really mean nothing these day.

cmon,it just 300+ LVL,not that hard.

Plank? Boot? To put in some nails? Sure. Those can be used. But guess what. You don't have an extra plank, since you're nailing your last one already. And you're not wearing any boots either, you're wearing flip-flops today or even barefooted. All you have is your bare fists. So you're forced to use your bare fists to put in those nails, yeah? Or, I dunno, your forehead?

Yup. That's how the forced randomizer feels. You don't get to choose. Out of all the frames, you get 3. Same for weapons. And most of the time, you will have inferior choices.

In fact, I wanna see you do even a simple Netracell run solo with, say, Banshee. With a key that drains 50 HP on every ability cast, plus constant HP drain when you're running and on the floor(forcing you to constantly bunny-hop), with a key that spawns extra Eximus units(whom you can't CC due to overguard) and lastly, the Voidburst key that spawns that void explosion on every kill at your location. As for weapons, have a Buzlok(not an awful weapon, but for sure not endgame ready), Lato Vandal and, say, Dark Dagger. Yup. That's your gear in the randomizer. Go do a regular netracell like that and come out victorious.

You have no self-heal, no CC or survivability, no serious damage either - not even the weak point shooting via sonar will help you all that much cuz you won't be able to survive long to shoot with your underperforming weapons in the first place. You won't be able to do it, no matter how much "madskillz" you have. All because some gear is simply inferior, outdated and can't match the constant powercreep that Warframe endgame is.

And that's just the regular Netracell run. While Deep Archimedian thing is even harder, apparently. With three missions in a row, without ability to change frames betwee the mission types either. I wanna see you first do an Exterminate with that kit, then try to defend some objective in Defense with that same kit and lastly, kill the high tier boss, all still with that same kit.

Spoiler: you won't be able to do it. You need a much more specialized set of tools to be able to go through it. A specifically crafted build that combines the benefits of frame and weapons together in a complete setup that is able to endure this challenge.

And that's why "randomizer gear" as a literal requirement sucks balls.

[Coffeefiend]

Look at it that way.

Would you rather have your favourite Warframe/arcane/weapon/focus tree/any efficient combos nerfed/broken every few updates in a neverending witchhunt for the fotm?

Or not use them for a single mission?*


*Optional: Complain about no endgame/challenge

[Illusive Soul]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von KitKat:

Plank? Boot? To put in some nails? Sure. Those can be used. But guess what. You don't have an extra plank, since you're nailing your last one already. And you're not wearing any boots either, you're wearing flip-flops today or even barefooted. All you have is your bare fists. So you're forced to use your bare fists to put in those nails, yeah? Or, I dunno, your forehead?

Yup. That's how the forced randomizer feels. You don't get to choose. Out of all the frames, you get 3. Same for weapons. And most of the time, you will have inferior choices.

Use your Brain,find a stone,those literally everywhere,same as weapon,you aint using bare hand agains enemy,plus RNG not always roll out bad weapons.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von KitKat:

In fact, I wanna see you do even a simple Netracell run solo with, say, Banshee. With a key that drains 50 HP on every ability cast, plus constant HP drain when you're running and on the floor(forcing you to constantly bunny-hop), with a key that spawns extra Eximus units(whom you can't CC due to overguard) and lastly, the Voidburst key that spawns that void explosion on every kill at your location. As for weapons, have a Buzlok(not an awful weapon, but for sure not endgame ready), Lato Vandal and, say, Dark Dagger. Yup. That's your gear in the randomizer. Go do a regular netracell like that and come out victorious.




You have no self-heal, no CC or survivability, no serious damage either - not even the weak point shooting via sonar will help you all that much cuz you won't be able to survive long to shoot with your underperforming weapons in the first place. You won't be able to do it, no matter how much "madskillz" you have. All because some gear is simply inferior, outdated and can't match the constant powercreep that Warframe endgame is.

And that's just the regular Netracell run. While Deep Archimedian thing is even harder, apparently. With three missions in a row, without ability to change frames betwee the mission types either. I wanna see you first do an Exterminate with that kit, then try to defend some objective in Defense with that same kit and lastly, kill the high tier boss, all still with that same kit.

Spoiler: you won't be able to do it. You need a much more specialized set of tools to be able to go through it. A specifically crafted build that combines the benefits of frame and weapons together in a complete setup that is able to endure this challenge.


And that's why "randomizer gear" as a literal requirement sucks balls.

https://gyazo.com/e3a41d4a9c1f9a9c7ac8f3f6e1666d10
https://gyazo.com/8858cf894304a0ac9a234bbaf8be8d1d

Skill Issue.

you also forget that you can team with others,that make it more forgiving ,plus if i remember correctly Deep Archimedea did not limit you cannot use operator skill or Operator load out get randomized.

[KitKat]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Illusive Soul:

Use your Brain,find a stone,those literally everywhere,same as weapon,you aint using bare hand agains enemy,plus RNG not always roll out bad weapons.

You're literally missing the point with my comparison. You don't have stones, they aren't "all around". You don't have anything else. You only have your fists, your forehead or your bare foot. That's the only choice of items you get to use in order to put those nails in. You don't get a stone, you don't get an extra plank, you don't get a hammer. No. You just get fists, forehead or bare foot to choose from.

That's exactly how randomizer works. You don't get to choose. The game gets to choose for you. And in most cases, it will not be any of your most used frames, nor any of your used weapons.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Illusive Soul:

https://gyazo.com/e3a41d4a9c1f9a9c7ac8f3f6e1666d10
https://gyazo.com/8858cf894304a0ac9a234bbaf8be8d1d

Skill Issue.

I said Buzlok. Not Braton Prime. Which is most likely with an incarnon on it, am I correct? Which puts it very high up in the power level, around the top of the meta even.

You literally took my point and went "sure, but I'll still make my own choice of a weapon".

...which will not happen in case of gear randomizer. You don't get to choose. The game chooses for you. And like I said - it's usually gonna be NOT any of your used frames or weapons.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Illusive Soul:

you also forget that you can team with others,that make it more forgiving ,plus if i remember correctly Deep Archimedea did not limit you cannot use operator skill or Operator load out get randomized.

Sure. And all four will be using underwhelming and underpowered, inferior and underperforming gear. But there will be 4 of you. So there will be full amount of spawns for a full team of 4. Thus, it will barely make a difference. There will be a difference, yes. Especially if someone ends with some frames that have support n such... But hey, alright, sure. Maybe you are correct.

But then another problem appears - gating content behind forced coop? How about no?

And really... Operator? Sure, they do have their uses and can be powerful, but... I doubt they can outperform the actual good gear.

-----------------------
My point stands. Warframe is a "power fantasy game", as stated literally by Rebecca on recent short, let alone by her and many others from DE over the years. So let us - the players - decide on HOW we wanna play out our "power fantasy".

Any sort of content that locks us out of playing our actual CHOSEN GEAR - be it via randomizer(Duviri or this Deep Archimedia) or stuff like Kahl's missions OUTSIDE of quests - should only be "optional", rather than "forced".

If it's like with Arbitrations/Sorties/Archon hunts, where specific frames/weapons get A BONUS POWER/DMG if you use them - it's alright. Just a helpful cherry on top for those who use and enjoy those.

If it's like Duviri - it's a middle ground, considering there are multiple choices and TECHNICALLY you can "re-roll" the random choices after doing just one round. Or just wait for another "re-roll" because it's rather fast (an hour or so? I forgot). So nothing is truly "locked out" behind specifically randomized gear, as you can easily "re-roll" the stuff.

If it's like with these Deep Archimedia, where literally part of the reward is being locked behind using specific randomizer gear, with a "re-roll" of said randomizer gear most likely ONLY ONCE PER WEEK(together with the weekly reset), then it's not acceptable. And so far I haven't heard anything from anyone that would change my mind or even consider it.