Sooo can I be a little negative about the latest Devstream?

[MotherVicar]

I have more hours on this game then is reasonable but man, it keeps doing stuff that is just disappointing to me (like the cursing in the quests and the obvious constant British accented characters), obviously you cant and shouldnt do everything to appease everyone but here we go:

New frame looks ok enough, bit odd they did not introduce more Tome mods considering they allow the Noctua to install them all at once and...well there only are 8 so...yeah install them all and thats that (if you want to) would have been good if they added a few.
Not a big deal.

But what does annoy me is that if you combine dark with light he spawns a bunch of Paragrimms to attack the enemies and I have to ask, isnt that just the most random "yeah we have this asset laying around, might as well use it here" sorta design?
Paragrimms? you mean those owls from Duviri? why would Dante have those.....?
Maybe im missing something lorewise, in which case let me know.

Then that Inaros rework:
What they "thought up" for the passive is perhaps the entire reason of making this thread, yes Im that disappointed by it.
Inaros currently changes into a sarcophagus upon death, nice, thematic, it fits, and out of the sarcophagus the player sends a "life sapping" beam, again, also good, it fits, that beam can be used on enemies but also on allies including pets, which is excellent.
Does it make him entirely immortal? no, because something still has to be there to take life from,

( hell you can even make it a fun balancing act that the amount of health you need to steal is connected to the amount of health Inaros has, so more health means less likely to die but also means you have to steal more upon death which is a risk for the player, choices are fun )

The problem with the passive is just that its not effective anymore at all with enemies above lets say level 40 or so (or those with a shield), which is nothing. so all they had to do is adjust the numbers a bit and you would be done....

instead they are copying the fun alternative that Sevagoth shipped with....Sevagoth has a similar passive to Inaros, instead of a sarcophagus he turns into a statue and the shadow has to kill (take health from) enemies to revive him, fun interactive ALTERNATIVE to how Inaros worked and now for a rework they are just copying that to Inaros?
How just....devoid of any creativity is that...come on, really? Im not against change, far from it but when that change is just copying other mechanics...then why the hell do we have this many frames? its just so...lame.

The other abilities Im not a fan off either, I get that the sandstorm placing enemies at your feet and ready for ground-finishing is more effective...but its not really fun or interesting, they already made that "more effective but less fun" change in the exact same manner with Mag, Mag's pull used to ragdoll enemies all over the place, sure its not effective but it was fun, it felt powerful, now she just puts them right infront of her ready for....yep....ground-finisher damage, exactly that they are now doing with Inaros...

Then there is the charging ability which now allows you to move while doing it, I get its a dynamic game but...again those are (should be) alternative mechanics between frames, why do we have different frames if we are not going to make them different, give and take, balance, and thus player choices, that is what makes it fun.
Balance the "not being able to move" part with a large pay off at the end...instead of just making it all the same.

Lastly they added corrosive damage, sure, handy...but it just so reveals the weird back and forth relationship with have with the devs:
Oh dear, the players are wrecking house on our game, better give the enemies more armor to stop it, and then proceed to give every frame armor stripping abilities to they negate that... idk maybe the entire damage model etc needs a looking at.

EDIT: Oh right I nearly forgot, the "sandcats" I mean come on, you cannot tell me its not EXTREMELY LAZY of them to just get the normal feral Kavat design from the orokin derelicts and giving them a sand textures isnt the most lazy crap you have ever seen....hell it does not even look right, you just introduced Kalymos and while also lazy, that with the sandtextures would look more fitting...hell any kavat with that textures would look more fitting OR even better, STOP BEING LAZY AND GIVE IT ITS OWN PROPER DESIGN JEEZ.

Thanks for showing up for my TED talk.

[NocheLuz]

Me, who always uses Last Gasp... oh, right... there are Warframes who can self revive...

[tv]

For those of you who didn't play Duviri, Paragrimms are Void creatures that collect books and lost knowledge, hence the minigame where you collect books. owls have a rich history of being an anthropomorphism of wisdom, dating back through human history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_owl
So a literal wizard summoning owls is to be expected, even if it is an asset flip.

[MotherVicar]

Oprindeligt skrevet af tv:

For those of you who didn't play Duviri, Paragrimms are Void creatures that collect books and lost knowledge, hence the minigame where you collect books. owls have a rich history of being an anthropomorphism of wisdom, dating back through human history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_owl
So a literal wizard summoning owls is to be expected, even if it is an asset flip.

In duviri you dont do anything with books though, just match up the symbols to solve the puzzle, that is kinda the wisdom angle.

From stories, I dont really know of many wizzards who had birds, let alone an owl, I think in the Magic Sword, Merlin had a falcon.

Anywho, if you want to add owls thats fine, but then dont use an asset that just causes confusion, its not a throw away thing...same for the Kavat, just stop being lazy and make a proper new design, hell it could even spark some lore, maybe we later can find some modern day evolutions of that owl on the plains of eidolon with the animal hunting stuff. or just lore of when they went extinct.

[zghaun]

I do agree that his passive is like discount Sevagoth

Nah bruh Sandstorm if it's wasn't pulling enemies to the center people will complain regardless because "oh no it's ragdolling enemies and I can't shoot them", even though we are in AoE Meta, like shooting on the targets matters anyway.

The Sand Cat seems to make sense since in the Sand of Inaros you do get to fight a ton of them

[Coffeefiend]

Haven't seen the stream yet but Inaros rework (going from OP info) sounds unimpressive and uninspired. His whole kit is useless beyond lvl 40 or so and really needed attention so I guess it's a plus that they tried.
I'm not exactly a fan of any of the revive passives (ignoring Nidus) because they're vastly inferior to Operator which you'll probably have way before you get Inaros or Sevagoth.

Sandstorm "rework" I can do myself, I'll just subsume pull and call it a day.

Slap some corrosive on it sounds like lazy Hydroid (which got an amazing) rework steal.

Sandcats don't sound too bad. I mean he always had sand minions but I'd bet 99% of players don't even know they exist because they're impossible to trigger, last for 5 seconds and have trash stats (not that it matters because of their lifespan).

Did they do anything for his survivability? Health frames drop like flies once you crank up the levels a bit. It's either facetank forever or crumble like paper. The worst part is that you're kind of forced to facetank because if adaption ever runs out your uber tank frame evaporates.

ps: (Subsumed) Nourish nerf?

[tv]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Macabruh:

Oprindeligt skrevet af tv:

For those of you who didn't play Duviri, Paragrimms are Void creatures that collect books and lost knowledge, hence the minigame where you collect books. owls have a rich history of being an anthropomorphism of wisdom, dating back through human history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_owl
So a literal wizard summoning owls is to be expected, even if it is an asset flip.

In duviri you dont do anything with books though, just match up the symbols to solve the puzzle, that is kinda the wisdom angle.

From stories, I dont really know of many wizzards who had birds, let alone an owl, I think in the Magic Sword, Merlin had a falcon.

Anywho, if you want to add owls thats fine, but then dont use an asset that just causes confusion, its not a throw away thing...same for the Kavat, just stop being lazy and make a proper new design, hell it could even spark some lore, maybe we later can find some modern day evolutions of that owl on the plains of eidolon with the animal hunting stuff. or just lore of when they went extinct.

no, there is a whole book collecting minigame.

[MotherVicar]

Oprindeligt skrevet af tv:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Macabruh:

In duviri you dont do anything with books though, just match up the symbols to solve the puzzle, that is kinda the wisdom angle.

From stories, I dont really know of many wizzards who had birds, let alone an owl, I think in the Magic Sword, Merlin had a falcon.

Anywho, if you want to add owls thats fine, but then dont use an asset that just causes confusion, its not a throw away thing...same for the Kavat, just stop being lazy and make a proper new design, hell it could even spark some lore, maybe we later can find some modern day evolutions of that owl on the plains of eidolon with the animal hunting stuff. or just lore of when they went extinct.

no, there is a whole book collecting minigame.

oh wait wait, you mean that one that was added later where you fly around as the Paragrinn itself? where you have to stare at targets? Those were books? fair enough

[Kawalorn]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Coffeefiend:

Did they do anything for his survivability?

Negation Swarm augment is getting changed so that it consumes the bonus armor to save Inaros from death.

The old effect of negating status effects is now in Scarab Armor by default.

[YoloMoth]

I think the cats are generally fine because thematically they tie back into the Egyptian pharaoh ideal. The whole chasing armor strip thing is just going to amount to the same 2 green shard builds on everything. I do think that with the Murmur there seems to be more of a push to make other meta element combinations, yet the automatons also have armor so armor strip isn't going to be completely replaced in these next updates.

[brago90]

One of the things Dante is based on are owls, you also have to keep in mind that we get Dante's parts in the void.

Part of the changes that Inaros is going to receive are inspired by things already established in the Sands of Inaros quest.

Sand clones to avoid death: this is what the sand protector does.

Moving Sandstorm: Simply an adaptation to modern gameplay where mobility is much more abundant than 6 years ago and most players have a negative opinion about throwing enemies away.

Sand armor: armor buff + augment of the current 4th skill.

Swarm that summons cats: The swarm has always done corrosive damage and in the second mission of Sands of Inaros you have to face a horde of cats, you must also keep in mind that cats are especially important animals in Egyptian mythology (also is an active way to keep Inaros ability to summon sand puppets in the game)

[Nilats]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Coffeefiend:

Did they do anything for his survivability? Health frames drop like flies once you crank up the levels a bit. It's either facetank forever or crumble like paper. The worst part is that you're kind of forced to facetank because if adaption ever runs out your uber tank frame evaporates.

ps: (Subsumed) Nourish nerf?

you probably mean sp endurance runs? But something like that isn't worth it? Because I know too many examples where people were banned unfairly.
and shield gate is not my thing. With 800+ armor I can facetank a lot. and certain warframes don't go down at all in usual sp content.
my necros as an example. He has 5x blue shards and has more than 2k armor. plus arcane grace and combat disc lvl 0 aura + crit arcane. So even weapons with ammo perform.

and because of "(Subsumed) Nourish nerf":
They're all about maximum players online, plat sales, etc.
Only if you know this can you understand illogical, human mind-insulting, absurd and sick changes.

[Illusive Soul]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Nilats:

you probably mean sp endurance runs? But something like that isn't worth it? Because I know too many examples where people were banned unfairly.

people using Third party software and trigger a ban,end of the story.

[Kobalobasileus]

I only recently came to appreciate Inaros when reading strats for Legendary Mastery Rank tests, and was advised to "pick a warframe that is just a big dumb brick of health," which is Inaros to a T.

I tweaked my mod setup, added some (common) Archon Shards, and subsumed Gloom over Sandstorm, and suddenly I have a 'frame that can facetank Steel Path to around level 1000. AND his sand throwing 1 move is still relevant in SP, since it opens enemies up to finishers, while Scarab Armor is just a 10 second thing you do at the start of every map to help with facetanking.

[Useless_Lesbo]

the problem really isnt with inaros imo, its more about how level scaling is. alot of people dont like inaros cause of knightmareframe and his whole "inaros cant level cap" deal which is true and i fully realize that. but inaros is only one warframe who is lacking in all kinds of departments, both functionally and fashionably. one thing ive liked about yareli is her theme and how she is presented (and thx to the new update soon, she will finally be getting some love now that the k-drive aspect isnt in the way anymore, but still an option) but inaros just doesnt have that.

like nyx is lacking in alot of suvivability and is overall out of date but her fashion and theme makes me want to play her. inaro prime, i will admit looks cool but he just doesnt give that effect for me, and thats fine, im sure others will like how he looks while i dont. and it isnt the main issue but it isnt helping his case

now honestly, i get that people like level cap becuase they see it as a challenge, but i feel like it really isnt, becuase yes the whole idea of warframe is that your op but you also need balance and lets be real, no one WANTS to go in and out of a mission over and over until they farmed enough. so i see the appeal but the thing with inaros is that he simply cant, and so he's pretty much used as more of a casual frame. my opinion is health needs to be a more viable survivability tool like sheilds.

inaros in general real just lacks in a whole lot other departments and yes the update doesnt do him justice like it did for yareli but its a step in the right direction. ofc if health does become viable id fully expect a gloom nerf, most likely a massive one at that

[--WDHC--xX_insertapcnamehere_xX]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Macabruh:

I have more hours on this game then is reasonable but man, it keeps doing stuff that is just disappointing to me (like the cursing in the quests and the obvious constant British accented characters), obviously you cant and shouldnt do everything to appease everyone but here we go:

New frame looks ok enough, bit odd they did not introduce more Tome mods considering they allow the Noctua to install them all at once and...well there only are 8 so...yeah install them all and thats that (if you want to) would have been good if they added a few.
Not a big deal.

But what does annoy me is that if you combine dark with light he spawns a bunch of Paragrimms to attack the enemies and I have to ask, isnt that just the most random "yeah we have this asset laying around, might as well use it here" sorta design?
Paragrimms? you mean those owls from Duviri? why would Dante have those.....?
Maybe im missing something lorewise, in which case let me know.

Then that Inaros rework:
What they "thought up" for the passive is perhaps the entire reason of making this thread, yes Im that disappointed by it.
Inaros currently changes into a sarcophagus upon death, nice, thematic, it fits, and out of the sarcophagus the player sends a "life sapping" beam, again, also good, it fits, that beam can be used on enemies but also on allies including pets, which is excellent.
Does it make him entirely immortal? no, because something still has to be there to take life from,

( hell you can even make it a fun balancing act that the amount of health you need to steal is connected to the amount of health Inaros has, so more health means less likely to die but also means you have to steal more upon death which is a risk for the player, choices are fun )

The problem with the passive is just that its not effective anymore at all with enemies above lets say level 40 or so (or those with a shield), which is nothing. so all they had to do is adjust the numbers a bit and you would be done....

instead they are copying the fun alternative that Sevagoth shipped with....Sevagoth has a similar passive to Inaros, instead of a sarcophagus he turns into a statue and the shadow has to kill (take health from) enemies to revive him, fun interactive ALTERNATIVE to how Inaros worked and now for a rework they are just copying that to Inaros?
How just....devoid of any creativity is that...come on, really? Im not against change, far from it but when that change is just copying other mechanics...then why the hell do we have this many frames? its just so...lame.

The other abilities Im not a fan off either, I get that the sandstorm placing enemies at your feet and ready for ground-finishing is more effective...but its not really fun or interesting, they already made that "more effective but less fun" change in the exact same manner with Mag, Mag's pull used to ragdoll enemies all over the place, sure its not effective but it was fun, it felt powerful, now she just puts them right infront of her ready for....yep....ground-finisher damage, exactly that they are now doing with Inaros...

Then there is the charging ability which now allows you to move while doing it, I get its a dynamic game but...again those are (should be) alternative mechanics between frames, why do we have different frames if we are not going to make them different, give and take, balance, and thus player choices, that is what makes it fun.
Balance the "not being able to move" part with a large pay off at the end...instead of just making it all the same.

Lastly they added corrosive damage, sure, handy...but it just so reveals the weird back and forth relationship with have with the devs:
Oh dear, the players are wrecking house on our game, better give the enemies more armor to stop it, and then proceed to give every frame armor stripping abilities to they negate that... idk maybe the entire damage model etc needs a looking at.

EDIT: Oh right I nearly forgot, the "sandcats" I mean come on, you cannot tell me its not EXTREMELY LAZY of them to just get the normal feral Kavat design from the orokin derelicts and giving them a sand textures isnt the most lazy crap you have ever seen....hell it does not even look right, you just introduced Kalymos and while also lazy, that with the sandtextures would look more fitting...hell any kavat with that textures would look more fitting OR even better, STOP BEING LAZY AND GIVE IT ITS OWN PROPER DESIGN JEEZ.

Thanks for showing up for my TED talk.

nah i agree the latest devstream was really dispointing and dogs h i t its just DE reuseing stuff again heck even the new game mode that they showed is just a bunch of other stuff they already used but combined together shame really idk man im starting to feel like DE is loseing its touch