Per Josh Strife Hays pay-to-win video, Warframe is pay-to-win.

[Cinnamon Toast King]

Let's get some stuff out of the way.

First off, I love Warframe and have been playing since being a founder. But I am not in denial and have always thought Warframe was pay-to-win.

Second, I highly recommend giving the video a watch before replying. Especially I'd you think Strife has always explained his points well.

You can buy consmestics, you can pay to skip time a gates, you can get things done significantly quicker then someone who swipes a card. There is no denying that.

Yes, you can trade for plat, but that involves playing the game for an unknown amount of time investment.

Warframe is pay-to-win. Is it the most worst? No, but it's pay-to-win. Does it inherently make the game bad? No. But just being in denial and having bad faith arguments against it not being pay-to-win is something I never understood from people.

Again, the video I highly recommend watching to completely without skipping around. Also my views were already like this well before the video. It's just, finally I have something to finally point to who explains and breaks it down perfectly!

[Aumires]

Originally posted by Illusive Soul:

that is my point,you and josh keep saying the game are P2W,and make it looks bad,and in some of the way Yes is kind a P2W,But not the Worst kind of P2W.

Just to point: In this video, Josh doesn't mention at ALL Warframe, not even an image of it on any category.

He DOES have a video on Warframe on his "Worst MMO Ever" series, from before Duviri. And spoilers, he actually.... really, really, really liked it! And no mention of p2w either on that video.

[Wandering Flare]

The issue we are having with this topic - the "bad faith" you keep trying to refute any argument that doesn't agree with you with - is that
1) it did not have to exist unless you were trying to prove something, in this case that you are correct because some guy with a following said the same thing as you;
2) it, together with the video which at least personally I did watch, so stuff that refutation, is just another attempt of many to shift an established term to fit a larger scope of things for... whatever reason.

Seeing this unfold I can't help but remember "facecamping" in DBD, a term that came into existence when people would stand right in front of the hooked survivor, face to face, thus blocking others from physically being able to rescue them. It was fixed long ago, yet here we are today, the term still used because it was morphed by people making arguments like this. In some time there will be another Josh, another "he totes right because I said the same thing" post, and P2W will apply to every game in existence. Just. Stop.

[Jesse]

6 pages and only 2 jesters given to this guy? Better than usual, I suppose.

[PJ]

Originally posted by Cinnamon Toast King:

Originally posted by PJ:

If you have to pay to play a game at all, then it's pay2win because how can you win if you can't even play? So, if your game is not F2P, then it's P2W. Wow.... so many games are P2W, damn near all of them in fact. Not Warframe tho, you can win without paying.

Bad faith argument. You are literally the first thing he brings up.....

See, even he knows his arguments are dumb and admits it right away.

[Midas]

Originally posted by Cinnamon Toast King:

Again a lot of bad faith arguments with people dying on the "win" aspect of PTW.

Having to buy cosmetics that look nicer then ones you can get already affects game play.

Says the guy completely ignoring the 'win' part like it's not half of it.

Dude's got to be trolling. By the sad standards of what you're arguing, all microtransactions are P2W.

[Douchebag Extraordinaire]

Haven't watched the video and can kinda understand the position. It is p2w but indirectly (or not intentionally).

For example, prime access that come with 90 day boosters are huge advantages over someone that's just playing for free, with the former being able to get gear faster due to having to farm less and level gear faster meaning more mastery rank, making it easier to unlock and use more weapons for even more mastery rank. A little dated, but there's even a slight advantage in battle with faction weapons charging faster due to higher xp.

But at the end of the day, the "advantage" is just getting to the finish line quicker and that doesn't mean anything at endgame, except maybe having less actual skill due to not spending as much time farming and leveling gear but that's case by case.

[PJ]

josh strife hayes is a plant from the gacha industry, who is paid to make pro-consumer gaming youtubers look like idiots by saying everything is pay2win. Don't believe his british lies!

[Prokaizer]

Originally posted by Midas:

Without watching the video or caring who tf that guy is, I'm going to say he's wrong, and if he thinks warframe is p2w, he has no idea what that means.

3 days to craft a frame or pay platinum to skip 72 hours.
Pretty much pay to win.
Yes you can wait for 3 days and don't pay a thing, that doesn't mean that it's not there to make people spent their currency to "win" 3 days of time.

[Dondu]

whos winning son?

[tv]

36 hours to craft a polychrome, 1 hour to craft clones of the same enemies you farmed for the polychromes, all plat to skip.

[Illusive Soul]

Originally posted by Aumires:

Just to point: In this video, Josh doesn't mention at ALL Warframe, not even an image of it on any category.

He DOES have a video on Warframe on his "Worst MMO Ever" series, from before Duviri. And spoilers, he actually.... really, really, really liked it! And no mention of p2w either on that video.

watch his another video which is 100 hour in warframe,he think after 100 hour for player to taste the good stuff in Warframe is pretty bad,this make me really cant take his joke critic serious.

Warframe has always heavy time invest game since the beginning,New player spend 100 - 500 hour grinding Old MR fodder weapon,unlock map notes,collect mods,farm warframe,understand the game mechanics,that is just like we Old player do,and he so shocked that need spend countless hour to reach the sweet stuff,which is those OP weapon and builds,warframe is a game that keep pile up content,it is reasonable new player will taking Longer time to reach the newest update and latest weapon if they decide to finish the old stuff.

so let me guess,the Best MMO Josh looking for is,0 pay advantages,everyone can get OP gear for free just in 1 - 2 hours,and the game are F2P,he really think game is came out from thin Air.

[Illusive Soul]

Originally posted by Prokaizer:

3 days to craft a frame or pay platinum to skip 72 hours.
Pretty much pay to win.
Yes you can wait for 3 days and don't pay a thing, that doesn't mean that it's not there to make people spent their currency to "win" 3 days of time.

Ayyy! congratz ! you wasted plat just to Win 3 days time !!! , i will just do other grinding and get the frame after 3 day build !

id say pay advantages,for people that dont have much time invest into game.

[Illusive Soul]

Originally posted by Daniel:

Op is not a person worth spending energy on. He's one of those types of people who say that Skyrim is P2W because Bethesda sells creation credits.

I stopped the video the moment Josh said all games are P2W because... you buy them with money?? At this point, better say Life is P2W, buying bottled water is P2W, you acquire something that others cannot afford in third world countries.

And as a summary this is the final conclusion: Min 33.50 "if that stuff is important to you you're going to see it as P2W". I really believe that bottled water is important to me, so poor those F2P third worlders who lick the ground and drink from puddles or rivers infected with all kinds of viruses and bacteria.

imagine get called P2W because you own Powerful PC.

[Dae]

the concept of P2W changed a lot throught the years
sure feels like it atleast
back in my day thats the type of word we would use in f2p first person shooters such as combat arms crossfire etc to call out people who used premium currency to get access to some of the most obviously unbalanced gear in the game
worst of all you couldnt keep that gear either... it was a RENTAL

...so do i believe warframe is p2w? as someone who played p2w games ever since i was little? nah lmao
youre paying for convenience and for the sake of supporting DE
nothing more nothing less

[Illusive Soul]

Originally posted by Dae:

the concept of P2W changed a lot throught the years
sure feels like it atleast
back in my day thats the type of word we would use in f2p first person shooters such as combat arms crossfire etc to call out people who used premium currency to get access to some of the most obviously unbalanced gear in the game
worst of all you couldnt keep that gear either... it was a RENTAL

...so do i believe warframe is p2w? as someone who played p2w games ever since i was little? nah lmao
youre paying for convenience and for the sake of supporting DE
nothing more nothing less

in these guy books,even 1 tiny little single advantages count as P2W.