Is Valkyr the best melee frame?

[76561197979566298]

I don't see how it could be otherwise. Now I'm speaking both in terms of effectiveness and cool. I know the last part is pretty subjective but hear me out.

Who else gets bad ass wolverine claws that shred through enemies and ON TOP of that, her heavy attack offers an axe kick of doom that obliterates all enemies in the immediate vicinity. Anybody who is into martial arts or even just kung fu/martial arts films and anime knows that the axe kick is serious business. Look up Andy Hug legendary kickboxer for rl demonstrations.

I'm just using a regular Valkyr also without really expensive mods either and no forma. I'm tearing through steel path with hardcore rage. She is just a BEAST and I'd like to hear what ppl think is better in both terms which I outlined.

[IFearSnowman]

why would anything just be "better", that would straight up be bad design

[76561197979566298]

Първоначално публикувано от Bag O' Bones:

why would anything just be "better", that would straight up be bad design

So tell me which frames you use specifically for melee that don't require any forma that you can take into sp and also have the "cool" factor which absolutely shred.

[MetalMamacomon]

Valkyr can't use combo stacking mods such as weeping wounds and blood rush, and that's why nobody plays it. When she uses her ultimate she is only invulnerable if the claws are out, and her claws dont do enough damage in steel path depending on the enemy and their level.
Garuda is just a better talon user.
-She is as immortal as Valkyr if you put Gloom on her (even without it);
-Can use those stacking mods;
-She is invulnerable while using any weapon (mainly after using her ultimate - and she can spam it, + she has that mirror which blocks damage in front of her)
-And not that it really matters, garuda doesn't have energy problems cause she has a skill that gives her unlimited energy, it helps cause you dont need to put mods and arcanes to help with energy management or the focus school which should always be Naramon when playing as a main melee loadout.

But you need to actually play the game to make Garuda work, its not just pressing a button to be always invulnerable and holding the melee button. That said, Valkyr is easier to play, so that's a positive for her, but as i said, she doesn't have the power to deal with some enemies in Steel Path.
Ofc we are talking about the skills kit, you can just equip something like Phenmor, Laetum or Kronen Prime and deal with anything you cant when using Valkyr's ultimate, but then, we could say that even Yareli can do any content hahahhaha.

[76561197979566298]

Първоначално публикувано от MetalMamacomon:

Valkyr can't use combo stacking mods such as weeping wounds and blood rush, and that's why nobody plays it. When she uses her ultimate she is only invulnerable if the claws are out, and her claws dont do enough damage in steel path depending on the enemy and their level.
Garuda is just a better talon user.
-She is as immortal as Valkyr if you put Gloom on her (even without it);
-Can use those stacking mods;
-She is invulnerable while using any weapon (mainly after using her ultimate - and she can spam it, + she has that mirror which blocks damage in front of her)
-And not that it really matters, garuda doesn't have energy problems cause she has a skill that gives her unlimited energy, it helps cause you dont need to put mods and arcanes to help with energy management or the focus school which should always be Naramon when playing as a main melee loadout.

But you need to actually play the game to make Garuda work, its not just pressing a button to be always invulnerable and holding the melee button. That said, Valkyr is easier to play, so that's a positive for her, but as i said, she doesn't have the power to deal with some enemies in Steel Path.
Ofc we are talking about the skills kit, you can just equip something like Phenmor, Laetum or Kronen Prime and deal with anything you cant when using Valkyr's ultimate, but then, we could say that even Yareli can do any content hahahhaha.

I didn't know Kronen was that great. Could someone make use of a noin prime kronen?

[MetalMamacomon]

Първоначално публикувано от BATHE N FOE'S BLOOD:

I didn't know Kronen was that great. Could someone make use of a noin prime kronen?

I mean, you could, but i wouldnt waste time and resources on it. There are better options to the non prime kronen.
This website's tier list and build section are pretty accurate, idk if you use it. It can give an idea of how strong are those weapons and their builds.

https://overframe.gg/tier-list/melee-weapons/

[76561197979566298]

Първоначално публикувано от MetalMamacomon:

Първоначално публикувано от BATHE N FOE'S BLOOD:

I didn't know Kronen was that great. Could someone make use of a noin prime kronen?

I mean, you could, but i wouldnt waste time and resources on it. There are better options to the non prime kronen.
This website's tier list and build section are pretty accurate, idk if you use it. It can give an idea of how strong are those weapons and their builds.

https://overframe.gg/tier-list/melee-weapons/

I have glaive prime and i have reaper prime but neither hit as hard as my broken war with the basic mods i have.

[YoloMoth]

Първоначално публикувано от MetalMamacomon:

Valkyr can't use combo stacking mods
Garuda is just a better talon user.
-She is as immortal as Valkyr if you put Gloom on her (even without it);

Ofc we are talking about the skills kit, you can just equip something like Phenmor, Laetum or Kronen Prime and deal with anything you cant when using Valkyr's ultimate, but then, we could say that even Yareli can do any content hahahhaha.

I feel like the argument could then be made that if you subsume over Valkyr's 3 or 4 she's functionally the same as Garuda with the ability to use combo and having melee-vamp. She's not the greatest, but gloom makes everyone viable for anything.

Gloom being the subsume for Sev was a mistake.

[Lay Z]

Първоначално публикувано от BATHE N FOE'S BLOOD:

Първоначално публикувано от Bag O' Bones:

why would anything just be "better", that would straight up be bad design

So tell me which frames you use specifically for melee that don't require any forma that you can take into sp and also have the "cool" factor which absolutely shred.

Revenant works great for SP with either melee or other weapons without any formas, just built as much strengh into him as you can to get more stacks of mesmer shield.

Anything that hits you while mesmer shield is up will get dazed and you can use the first ability Enthrall free of energy cost.(Convert a target into a zealous thrall. Thralls turn on their allies and enthrall through damage. On death, they disintegrate into a damaging pillar of energy) Enthrall units will draw aggro to them so gives you more Survivability too.

if you have access to the helmith system add Roar to do more damage, replace his 4th ability.

you need to bring a good melee weapon too

[YoloMoth]

Първоначално публикувано от BATHE N FOE'S BLOOD:

Първоначално публикувано от MetalMamacomon:

https://overframe.gg/tier-list/melee-weapons/

I have glaive prime and i have reaper prime but neither hit as hard as my broken war with the basic mods i have.

I would be very careful using overframe as a user Moon is really suspiciously always top, even when the builds don't work.

Also overframe has a distinct tilt towards level cap enemy builds, so if you are not going to do long endurance runs in SP (40 minutes+), it can be misinformation. A key example of this is rolling guard, shield gating, or prime-surefooted in every build, as you've already played Valkyr on SP you should know that these mods aren't needed, yet overframe will try and tell you they're integral to the build.

[MetalMamacomon]

Първоначално публикувано от YoloMoth:

I feel like the argument could then be made that if you subsume over Valkyr's 3 or 4 she's functionally the same as Garuda with the ability to use combo and having melee-vamp. She's not the greatest, but gloom makes everyone viable for anything.

Gloom being the subsume for Sev was a mistake.

Thats not what i said. Garuda gets more confortable with gloom instead of her pillar, thats why i wrote "(even without it)", her pillar still heals well enough for her to keep spamming her ult, but the main point is that just check their talons stats, Garuda's talons are far superior cause the meta is Slash status application + combo mods on melees. Valkyr has neither of them. Thats why most of the melees that cant proc bleed consistently are low tier.

Valkyr Talons base stats summary (no difference between prime and normal):
-base total damage: 250 (no warframe mods).
-33% slash status (bleed) chance when status proc.
-10% status chance.
-50% critical chance.
-So it relies on raw damage output, cause the status chance is that low and has a ratio of 1:1:1 (impact:puncture:slash), even with Valkyr's power strength multiplier, it only raises the raw damage output.

Garuda Prime Talons base stats summary (prime has better stats):
-base total damage: 280 (no warframe mods)
-85% slash status (bleed) chance when status proc.
-36% status chance +480% from weeping wounds 12 stacks on combo count: 209%
-35% critical chance +480 from blood rush 12 stacks on combo count: 203%
-High bleed procs, ofc ignores armor, easily archieving +300k per second per bleed proc on heavy attacks.

So it means depending on the enemy and their level as i said before, Valkyr wont do any damage to it cause she relies on raw damage. But armor and level dont matter for Garuda, she ignores 'em all causing high bleed procs, and so many of them.
Now for enemies that they cant get bleeds on them such as bosses, i wouldnt bring them, but even though against these bosses, getting to 200% critical chance with one mod is indeed something to consider.

[YoloMoth]

Първоначално публикувано от MetalMamacomon:

Първоначално публикувано от YoloMoth:

I feel like the argument could then be made that if you subsume over Valkyr's 3 or 4 she's functionally the same as Garuda with the ability to use combo and having melee-vamp. She's not the greatest, but gloom makes everyone viable for anything.

Gloom being the subsume for Sev was a mistake.

Thats not what i said. Garuda gets more confortable with gloom instead of her pillar, thats why i wrote "(even without it)", her pillar still heals well enough for her to keep spamming her ult, but the main point is that just check their talons stats, Garuda's talons are far superior cause the meta is Slash status application + combo mods on melees. Valkyr has neither of them. Thats why most of the melees that cant proc bleed consistently are low tier.

Valkyr Talons base stats summary (no difference between prime and normal):
-base total damage: 250 (no warframe mods).
-33% slash status (bleed) chance when status proc.
-10% status chance.
-50% critical chance.
-So it relies on raw damage output, cause the status chance is that low and has a ratio of 1:1:1 (impact:puncture:slash), even with Valkyr's power strength multiplier, it only raises the raw damage output.

Garuda Prime Talons base stats summary (prime has better stats):
-base total damage: 280 (no warframe mods)
-85% slash status (bleed) chance when status proc.
-36% status chance +480% from weeping wounds 12 stacks on combo count: 209%
-35% critical chance +480 from blood rush 12 stacks on combo count: 203%
-High bleed procs, ofc ignores armor, easily archieving +300k per second per bleed proc on heavy attacks.

So it means depending on the enemy and their level as i said before, Valkyr wont do any damage to it cause she relies on raw damage. But armor and level dont matter for Garuda, she ignores 'em all causing high bleed procs, and so many of them.
Now for enemies that they cant get bleeds on them such as bosses, i wouldnt bring them, but even though against these bosses, getting to 200% critical chance with one mod is indeed something to consider.

That is fair, though I feel that people who play Valkyr to stay permanently in hysteria are weird. I generally use a good melee, and then use hysteria as an "oh no" button if I hit below 200 health (Using the Enraged). That way, stacking mods work, and function similar to the pseudo exalted Garuda talons. Though it does leave her 4 weaker. Valkyr is definitely feature creeped and I would like to see her reworked.

[MetalMamacomon]

Първоначално публикувано от YoloMoth:

That is fair, though I feel that people who play Valkyr to stay permanently in hysteria are weird. I generally use a good melee, and then use hysteria as an "oh no" button if I hit below 200 health (Using the Enraged). That way, stacking mods work, and function similar to the pseudo exalted Garuda talons. Though it does leave her 4 weaker. Valkyr is definitely feature creeped and I would like to see her reworked.

It makes sense, warcry gives Valkyr so much atk speed that we wont need to use atk speed mods on melees, leaving room to use more damage mods. And helminthing gloom in her first skill makes it even better for survivability, which she lacks a lot when not clawing around.
Id like to see a rework too, they just cant leave those combo mods out of her talons. And her first skill...pfff, thats ridiculous .

[YoloMoth]

Първоначално публикувано от MetalMamacomon:

Първоначално публикувано от YoloMoth:

That is fair, though I feel that people who play Valkyr to stay permanently in hysteria are weird. I generally use a good melee, and then use hysteria as an "oh no" button if I hit below 200 health (Using the Enraged). That way, stacking mods work, and function similar to the pseudo exalted Garuda talons. Though it does leave her 4 weaker. Valkyr is definitely feature creeped and I would like to see her reworked.

It makes sense, warcry gives Valkyr so much atk speed that we wont need to use atk speed mods on melees, leaving room to use more damage mods. And helminthing gloom in her first skill makes it even better for survivability, which she lacks a lot when not clawing around.
Id like to see a rework too, they just cant leave those combo mods out of her talons. And her first skill...pfff, thats ridiculous .

XD I actually like her 1st (I use the augment for it as well). I wish it took your momentum into effect like Pathfinder from Apex, or Spiderman, so you could swing around corners instead of face plant into them. I know that a lot of people hate it though which is fair. I replace her 3, then use Bronco with the dizzying rounds so I don't lose the finisher opportunities. Usually replace it with Tharos strike or the Chroma one for support. But yeah, I see her come up in a lot of discussions about reworks, usually behind Loki in first and Chroma second.

Though I still stand by Gloom should have never been the subsumable.

[zeromaveric]

i understand you're looking for something that doesn't need a lot of forma, but i primarily use Kullervo for SP runs, though he does require a lot of grinding to get working. mine currently has 5 purple archon shards installed for melee crits. pretty much blended a damage cap build i saw (but failed to hit) with an Amalgam Argonak dagger build for armor stripping. using a dagger Zaw that's modded for status with shock and gas, and outfitted with both Exodia Force and Melee Influence to help spread to multiple enemies. there's a reason he's been lauded as a melee nuke frame

[Mooman]

IMO Kullervo is the best melee frame. His passive is for heavy attack speed and efficiency, and his first ability counts as a heavy attack.

I like using him with a Kubrow with the Mecha Mods and Innodem incarnation dagger as it has bonuses for heavy attacks. You can mod it for enough initial combo to enter incarnation mod every time.

Every 30 seconds the Kubrow marks a target, hit it with ability 1 and everything in a 40m radius falls down from status procs. Ability 2 can do the same as the Kubrow but is a little more energy costly.

Seen some crazy high million plus red crits.