(spoilers) duvari story - something i might have missed

[Thundercracker]

so, in the new war quest, where we meet the drifter, the dialog led me to believe that the man in the wall took all alternate-timeline versions of the operator out of "normal space," to be held in reserve if something happened to the operator.

but in the duvari paradox, we learn that the drifter, a version of the operator who never got the void powers, somehow created an entire void-realm, which is where they were stuck.

and somehow, the tenno as a group knew of the drifter's (and duvari's) existence, and saw fit to lend them aid.... but this comes before the drifter takes the operator's place during the new war.

did i just kind of zone out on the one line of dialog that explains all this?

[Dreamnaught]

wouldnt be surprised about MITW is main Operator that observes all the other parrallels from above

[Todd Howard]

Not even DE understands what is going on in the story

[grimlucis]

Feels like time is very wibbly wobbly here hence the name - its a grandfather paradox.

Drifter is stuck in Duviri doing loops, in comes Tenno and help them out. Why?

Because When drifter gets out they go and help Tenno during the new war.

New war ends Tenno go help out drifter to escape.

And from there on out we go in circles.

At least that is my take how this all mess works.

[Dondu]

Originally posted by Rogal Dorn:

Not even DE understands what is going on in the story

oh they understand, its just you LOL ... if you want to understand keyword is paradox

[xPEDx]

Originally posted by grimlucis:

Feels like time is very wibbly wobbly here hence the name - its a grandfather paradox.

Drifter is stuck in Duviri doing loops, in comes Tenno and help them out. Why?

Because When drifter gets out they go and help Tenno during the new war.

New war ends Tenno go help out drifter to escape.

And from there on out we go in circles.

At least that is my take how this all mess works.

A! This makes sense to me , I'm glad i read this, and if its not , then idc lol cos this is easier to understand :)

[Thundercracker]

the paradox, however, does not explain how a regular guy with no void powers created a void realm.

Originally posted by Dreamnaught:

wouldnt be surprised about MITW is main Operator that observes all the other parrallels from above

considering that we saw his "true form" as that of a "man" literally in a wall, i'm not really sure that's true. it's the same for everyone, and i'd expect that if he was the "prime universe operator" (in a way like superboy prime, for example,) he'd be a woman in the wall for female operators.

Originally posted by Dondu:

Originally posted by Rogal Dorn:

Not even DE understands what is going on in the story

oh they understand, its just you LOL ... if you want to understand keyword is paradox

this would be easier to accept if they had demonstrated the void to be paradoxical at any time since the introduction of the concept. like if the void had wibbly wobbly properties, why was vor resurrected in two pieces instead of restored to his original complete body?

since lua was hidden in the void, why didnt lotus go the extra step and use the void to hide lua in time?

i think the only link to temporal effects and the void are the time portals on lua. which, notably are stable portals to and back from a specific moment in time.

[Ashyrae]

Eternalism (as explained in The New War) allows for an infinite number of possibilities of varying scenarios to result from a circumstance.

The Paradox is the double consequences of Eternalism stretching forth from the Zariman Ten-Zero accident. In one, you don't leave, cutting off feeling in order to cope & manifesting a dream realm (Duviri) as The Drifter to keep those emotions at bay & remain apathetic in order to continue existing in the Void (where dreams and emotion have consequence). In the other, you do leave, inheriting void powers and being traumatized by the deaths of your parents & the other kids.

The Paradox simultaneously allows you to reach back and provide ways to change the results of the choices _following_ those of the accident. These manifest in Duviri gameplay as your Warframe and weapon choices, along with the archgun for the Orowyrm fight if you take too long in a phase.

The New War simultaneously takes place before and after the Duviri Paradox quest depending on when you started it. It's two asynchronous timelines, and either way you change the Void.

[Mooman]

It's a prison of the mind and you can never escape your own mind.

The spiral as a symbol of hypnotism is the key. When you think you're free you never are as it just starts all over again.

You never were in control.

Edit: Dualism. The seperation of mind and body.

[VeraelHasta]

Don't try to understand it, there is no explanation. That is why it is called a paradox - because it should be impossible.

[CitizenKing]

I like how putting paradox in the title of the update and vaguely using the word here and there is like a full pass to have an absolutely nonsensical plot for some people.

[VeraelHasta]

Originally posted by CitizenKing:

I like how putting paradox in the title of the update and vaguely using the word here and there is like a full pass to have an absolutely nonsensical plot for some people.

But it is a paradox. Drifter and Operator interact with eachother in a way that is impossible. Each of them helps the other one, so the other one can help them. But they get the help they needed before helping the other one.

The onyl thing I might agree on is the whole Duviri creation thing. They didn't explain anything here, maybe there is a secret somewhere etc. But I didn't like it that it ended without a concrete explanation other than "The Drifter did it because Void, the end".

[Thundercracker]

Originally posted by VeraelHasta:

Originally posted by CitizenKing:

I like how putting paradox in the title of the update and vaguely using the word here and there is like a full pass to have an absolutely nonsensical plot for some people.

But it is a paradox. Drifter and Operator interact with eachother in a way that is impossible. Each of them helps the other one, so the other one can help them. But they get the help they needed before helping the other one.

The onyl thing I might agree on is the whole Duviri creation thing. They didn't explain anything here, maybe there is a secret somewhere etc. But I didn't like it that it ended without a concrete explanation other than "The Drifter did it because Void, the end".

again, this would make sense.... if they had established that the void has time travel properties.

because if you can manipulate time with the void, how come the sentients didnt just use that ? why dont the current sentients just not go to the instant after the originals were sent to tau, and take over then?

also, ANY interaction between the drifter and operator should not be possible, they are alternate timeline versions of the same person. no duvari is needed to make their interactions paradoxical.

[Thundercracker]

i had another thought. if duvari and everything in it are constructs of the drifter..... why do thrax guardians attack the tenno on the zariman?

it makes sense fighting them when you're in duvari, but out in the "real" world?

[Formous]

Frankly..the Drifter in Duviri has no connection to the Drifter in New War.

You can easily tell given their complete lack of knowledge about the Tenno. Why? Because they are going off decision based multiverse theory, as demonstrated in New War. The Drifter in Duviri is a different Drifter. Same person, different time lines. The New War Drifter is entirely different, having made a choice that never saw them leave the Zariman, likely its very last survivor. The One in Duviri, has a single Tenno (maybe a prime verse one), that made a world and bound everyone to it. Speak to the Singer, and she speaks on this.

The difference between these drifters is the same as between the Operator and the first Drifter. The Operator took the Void's offer, and the Drifter did not. And at some point, that Drifter made a decision that resulted in a last survivor Drifter, and the Duviri Drifter. It's simply another split in the branch of time down the line.

Listen to dialogue guys, dont skip it.

[IFearSnowman]

I think that is why its a paradox, because time is all messed up, things are happening in response to things that have yet to happen.

You "win" the New War with aid of the drifter whom is only freed by your aid at the end of the New War....