Redeemer Vs Sarpa

[hellstar]

which is better or does more damage.. i know its base of build and such but which would you say is best Gun Blade right now

[Alizarin]

Still redeemer, really. Outdamages Sarpa and charged/combo shots are shotgun pellets.

[Heedal]

Redeemer is better gun, Sarpa is better blade

[Sceles]

Sarpa is FAR more powerful than Redeemer but not nearly as accurate. Against under lvl110 enemies you're better off using Redeemer.

[Nolo Contendere]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Sceles:

Sarpa is FAR more powerful than Redeemer but not nearly as accurate. Against under lvl110 enemies you're better off using Redeemer.

I have both.....what are you on and where can I get some?

sarpa IS better for when you have stuff like nullifier bubbles to take out, but overall if I want stuff killed fast I'm going with my redeemer.

[Dione]

Sarpa deals quite a damage and is good against more than 1 target, but is precise like drunk blind guy who needs to pee.
Redeemer less damage, blast can be usefull but the accuracy is just pin-point-shoot.
also (not sure) sarpa can alert enemies about 15 meters away from hit location

[Sceles]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Nolo Contendere:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Sceles:

Sarpa is FAR more powerful than Redeemer but not nearly as accurate. Against under lvl110 enemies you're better off using Redeemer.

I have both.....what are you on and where can I get some?

sarpa IS better for when you have stuff like nullifier bubbles to take out, but overall if I want stuff killed fast I'm going with my redeemer.

I'm just seeing the potential of this weapon unlike 99% of the community who have modded it incorrectly. Gunblades calculate status chance differently from normal shotguns. If a shotgun has a 10% status chance that means 10% chance for one of the pellets to proc. For gunblades it means 10% chance for each individual pellet to proc. Now on Redeemer this does not matter because its charged shots deal blast dmg, you don't need them to proc. Sarpa however deals slash dmg, which means incredibly powerful bleed procs. Also because it counts as a melee weapon it also gets stealth dmg multipliers vs targets who are under sleep CC effects such as Ivaras sleep arrows or Inaros' desiccation. A properly modded Sarpa is more powerful than Tigris P.

If you don't believe me then feel free to test it yourself, here's my build:
Life Strike(rank0), Primed Pressure Point, Spoiled Strike, Jagged Edge, Buzz Kill, Virulent Scourge, Vicious Frost, Volcanic Edge.

[Alizarin]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Sceles:

Gunblades calculate status chance differently from normal shotguns. If a shotgun has a 10% status chance that means 10% chance for one of the pellets to proc. For gunblades it means 10% chance for each individual pellet to proc.

Sarpa shots are treated as normal rifle/pistol shots, so every pellet will have the the chance to proc what is listed on the arsenal. Unlike Redeemer's shotgun pellets which have the status distributed among all pellets shot.

Now on Redeemer this does not matter because its charged shots deal blast dmg, you don't need them to proc. Sarpa however deals slash dmg, which means incredibly powerful bleed procs.

Sarpa also procs blast, though somewhat situational. However enemies and objects in a close vicinity of the shot will take some AoE blast damage all the time.

[Sceles]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Yuuki Σ:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Sceles:

Gunblades calculate status chance differently from normal shotguns. If a shotgun has a 10% status chance that means 10% chance for one of the pellets to proc. For gunblades it means 10% chance for each individual pellet to proc.

Sarpa shots are treated as normal rifle/pistol shots, so every pellet will have the the chance to proc what is listed on the arsenal. Unlike Redeemer's shotgun pellets which have the status distributed among all pellets shot.

If you were reading the wiki note that there's some possibly wrong information about Redeemer on Sarpa's page. If you look at Redeemer's page it says that it works exactly like Sarpa. I haven't done any testing myself but I think both are treated as gunblades, not shotguns, pistols, etc. Now I have no idea how WF is coded but if they're both treated as gunblades and the way dmg gets calculated is affected by weapon type then it would make the most sense that they're identical.

[axelmonster]

I doubt that the redeemers shot is counted as a shotgun blast, there is no other indication of this when using the weapon, every part of the weapon, every shot, is handled like a melee attack, getting full stealth melee bonus etc.
Redeemer shots will for example not make a volatile runner explode. Gunfire makes runners explode, melee does not.

Redeemer fires 10 pellets per shot.
Sarpa fires on average 5 (different number of bullets on different combos).
Redeemer pellets deal base 30 damage.
Sarpa bullets deal base 35 damage.

300 vs 175 damage.
Redeemer is stronger.

[fragball]

Diposting pertama kali oleh axelmonster:

I doubt that the redeemers shot is counted as a shotgun blast, there is no other indication of this when using the weapon, every part of the weapon, every shot, is handled like a melee attack, getting full stealth melee bonus etc.
Redeemer shots will for example not make a volatile runner explode. Gunfire makes runners explode, melee does not.

Redeemer fires 10 pellets per shot.
Sarpa fires on average 5 (different number of bullets on different combos).
Redeemer pellets deal base 30 damage.
Sarpa bullets deal base 35 damage.

300 vs 175 damage.
Redeemer is stronger.

well, maybe you just use it then and fire it up on a nulli- or arctic eximus bubble then - then you will see the damage numbers rise up exactly like when shooting a shotgun at it.
@OP: having both weapons build formated and used with all kind of different mod combination extensivly i can only come to the conclusion that the redeemer is still the better choice - sure, the base dmg of the sarpa is a bit higher but like axelmonster already stated, the raw numbers are deciving here. if you actually tested both weapons for some time against different kinds and levels of enemies you wouldn't start the thread (btw, others b4 you did the same).
don't get me wrong, the sarpa is not bad weapon - far from it - but it is still outshined by the redeemer in nearly all aspects: damage, procs, crits and yes, even in range and accuracy - both tested with high noon and bulletdance (the last one makes the redeemer ever more superior then with high noon - if you handle the weapon right). the only pros for sarpa i ever found are its much better use against nullifier which can bring the bubble down in 2 charged shots (all bullets on target) where a redeemer would take 4-5 shots. it would not be that bad, if the sarpa could actuall shoot in a damn strait line - it is annoying when the full burst miss even a target 5m away from you. its a bit illogical that its behave more like shotgun in that perspective than the redeemer does and it might be patched in the future but till then its just too unpredictable. worse though is the range: with primed range in both weapons and high noon for the stance, the range where i can hit a target with the redeemer is about 45-50m (and there is a good chance to down/destroy it too). with the sarpa it is far less than that and the chance that any bullet hit is much lower than that of a redeemer pellet. with bullet dance, the redeemer now hit targets at 80m and more - the sarpa can also, but rarely land on what you were aiming at. i think the bullet dance effect on the redeemer was not intendet and might be "fixed" at some point - that or the sarpa get its little rework instead.
tl:dr don't interpret the stats (or play around with the wf-builder) but test the weapons yourself under all kind of conditions.

[axelmonster]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Fragball:

well, maybe you just use it then and fire it up on a nulli- or arctic eximus bubble then - then you will see the damage numbers rise up exactly like when shooting a shotgun at it.
.

The point I was making is that the pellets are not treated as gunshots in any way.
Yes, if you fire it at a bubble you see damage numbers pop up in a shotgun like spread. The attacks however do not count as shotgun pellets, not from what I've observed.

[fragball]

Diposting pertama kali oleh axelmonster:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Fragball:

well, maybe you just use it then and fire it up on a nulli- or arctic eximus bubble then - then you will see the damage numbers rise up exactly like when shooting a shotgun at it.
.

The point I was making is that the pellets are not treated as gunshots in any way.
Yes, if you fire it at a bubble you see damage numbers pop up in a shotgun like spread. The attacks however do not count as shotgun pellets, not from what I've observed.

well, sure - but in the end its like with (e.g.) those secondary shotguns, they ARE shotguns, but eat pistol ammo and are excluded from "shotgun only" sorties (as is the redeemer, sadly).
i can only say, that the visible damage of the redeemer "looks like" a shotgun weapon - also the redeemer is described as such. and yes, it don't use up ammo - but i guess DE can't compile a 3rd ammostack into the game (one that only 2 weapons would use anyway... or rather they would need a melee-shotgun-ammo and a melee-pistol ammo to prevent cross references to 1st and 2nd ammo types... argh, anyway).
might be, we just talking about 2 differnt things here too ^^.

[axelmonster]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Fragball:

might be, we just talking about 2 differnt things here too ^^.

Yeah see what I'm talking about is the redeemer shots being handled like shotguns pellets or melee by the game, mechanically speaking.

Shotguns spread their crit and status chance between the pellets. Bascially what it lists on paper is the chance that you will trigger a status effect each time the weapon is fired, if each pellet hits. it is not per pellet.

I don't see any evidence that the redeemer works this way however, thus it's blasts are not treated as shotgun blasts, but rather melee attacks.

[Sceles]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Fragball:

Diposting pertama kali oleh axelmonster:

The point I was making is that the pellets are not treated as gunshots in any way.
Yes, if you fire it at a bubble you see damage numbers pop up in a shotgun like spread. The attacks however do not count as shotgun pellets, not from what I've observed.

well, sure - but in the end its like with (e.g.) those secondary shotguns, they ARE shotguns, but eat pistol ammo and are excluded from "shotgun only" sorties (as is the redeemer, sadly).
i can only say, that the visible damage of the redeemer "looks like" a shotgun weapon - also the redeemer is described as such. and yes, it don't use up ammo - but i guess DE can't compile a 3rd ammostack into the game (one that only 2 weapons would use anyway... or rather they would need a melee-shotgun-ammo and a melee-pistol ammo to prevent cross references to 1st and 2nd ammo types... argh, anyway).
might be, we just talking about 2 differnt things here too ^^.

Gunblades do not use any ammo.

Edit: This was actually a misunderstanding on my part, I thought he was saying that gunblades are secondary shotguns.

[axelmonster]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Sceles:

Gunblades use ammo.

No they don't! (See, this is why you read the entire post before replying to a tiny part of it)