Warframe
Making Specters Fun and Useful
I feel like specters are boring, limited, and not really useful in most cases. However, I think that they can be greatly improved if they were made more customizable and split into 3 separate tiers.

All tiers of specters will allow you to choose from a selection of units upon being built, having no unit tied to it initially. After the specter is built the unit type cannot be changed, however this is only for each set of 5 specters.

The first tier of specters could be the easiest to acquire and the cheapest to build. This tier of specters would allow choose from regular units like lancers and crewmen and other light units that aren't that specialized. These would not be eximus units, but their damage will be significantly more than of their enemy counterparts, along with the usual level scaling.

The second tier of specters would be more difficult to acquire and cost more to build. This tier of specters will allow you to either construct eximus versions of the first tier units (with the eximus type of choice) or strong specialized units such as corpus techs, bombards, etc. Their damage will also be buffed along with the usual level scaling.

The third and last tier of specters would be the most difficult to acquire and build. This tier will allow you create eximus versions of the specialized units from tier 2 (eximus type of choice). This tier will also allow you to make unique units such as warframe specters (the same in terms of strength as the current highest tier of warframe specters) and other unique units such as clem. The same damage modifications apply to this tier as the last 2, along with the level scaling.

Note that only one specter from each tier can be active at once, so as to not make it overpowered.

So what do you guys think? Would this be overpowered? Or would it be an improvement over the current system we have for specters?

Отредактировано •.Mercury.•; 18 мая. 2019 г. в 23:23
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Сообщения 115 из 26
Current spectres are fine once you know how to setup the customizable ones with useful frames and weapon loadouts.

Spectres are intended to be a small minor thing to add an occasional boost to being able to handle a given task. Making them too strong would turn them into a sort of crutch for players or allow players to use them to afk affinity grind more than they currently can. Being limited in terms of AI, skill use, and function means that there is still a dependence on the player to do key actions.

They are also intentionally cheap so you don't have to agonize over the cost of using them in a mission where you'll likely be done in 5-10 minutes. Making them expensive would just make players not use them and invalidate anything the system might offer. But making them infinite use would make players use them thoughtlessly.
Автор сообщения: BurlsoL
Current spectres are fine once you know how to setup the customizable ones with useful frames and weapon loadouts.

Spectres are intended to be a small minor thing to add an occasional boost to being able to handle a given task. Making them too strong would turn them into a sort of crutch for players or allow players to use them to afk affinity grind more than they currently can. Being limited in terms of AI, skill use, and function means that there is still a dependence on the player to do key actions.

They are also intentionally cheap so you don't have to agonize over the cost of using them in a mission where you'll likely be done in 5-10 minutes. Making them expensive would just make players not use them and invalidate anything the system might offer. But making them infinite use would make players use them thoughtlessly.
The issue is that currently specters arent very appealing (at least imo). Something like a shield osprey is good for helping you stay alive, a corrupted lancer is a good distraction, and then there are things like rollers which do nothing at all. But I feel like they should be able to at least do something besides tagging along or being a momentary distraction. They should be able to kill more than just infested maggots (not on the same level as players but a kill here and there would be nice). I also think that various eximus types can be very useful in different situations, and currently we only get a few that I don't find that helpful at all. And really, something like a corrupted bombard shouldnt have to fire 6 shots to kill a lvl 1 butcher, lets be honest here.
Отредактировано •.Mercury.•; 18 мая. 2019 г. в 22:54
Having specters around me in arbitration can help combat the sudden one hits, love using them as extra layer of protection when im playing zephyr, with enough range i can make sure they didnt die as well. I even buy lots of corrupted gunners from todays void trader :)
Автор сообщения: BlueBomber
Having specters around me in arbitration can help combat the sudden one hits, love using them as extra layer of protection when im playing zephyr, with enough range i can make sure they didnt die as well. I even buy lots of corrupted gunners from todays void trader :)
I like using specters in arbitrations as well, I just wish they were more customizable and a bit stronger than they are now.
They already are fun and useful, OP even.
Sounds like Warframe specters but applied to enemies, looks cool.

i think what makes specters so unnappealing is that they are harder to get than Warframe specters, and only do 1/4 of the job, many of the are locked by syndicates, with only one third actually helping out rather than get killed like a firing range dummy, another one is Clem clone, wich is pretty good but being unable build more until the next makes way more limited than buying the with standing, and then there are the corrupted specters, only available through Baro and you get to build even less than Clem, there is no good reason to bother farming for all of them when i can just deploy an Oberon prime armed with a supra.
Автор сообщения: massgunner32
i think what makes specters so unnappealing is that they are harder to get than Warframe specters, and only do 1/4 of the job, many of the are locked by syndicates, with only one third actually helping out rather than get killed like a firing range dummy, another one is Clem clone, wich is pretty good but being unable build more until the next makes way more limited than buying the with standing, and then there are the corrupted specters, only available through Baro and you get to build even less than Clem, there is no good reason to bother farming for all of them when i can just deploy an Oberon prime armed with a supra.

This exactly. I hate how so many of the specters are weak or useless, with only a handful being decent at best. Being able to decide the unit type and sometimes eximus type would make them so much more useful (and fun too).
Автор сообщения: Incend
Автор сообщения: BlueBomber
:)
I like using specters in arbitrations as well, I just wish they were more customizable and a bit stronger than they are now.

Remind me of customizable ai goons you have in payday2, you can assign them modded guns, armor, perks, and man theyre better than most real player. I like the way you can give simple commands to them, even carry bags for you.
Автор сообщения: Sceles
They already are fun and useful, OP even.
I can agree with the fun part, I do enjoy using them even in their current state. I really don't get the "useful" and "OP" parts though. Can you elaborate on that?

As far as I see only a few of the specters are useful and even then not that much.
Автор сообщения: Incend
Автор сообщения: Sceles
They already are fun and useful, OP even.
I can agree with the fun part, I do enjoy using them even in their current state. I really don't get the "useful" and "OP" parts though. Can you elaborate on that?

As far as I see only a few of the specters are useful and even then not that much.
Try doing arbitrations with Exergis Trinity, Ancient Healer and Clem. You'll see what I'm talking about. Running out of damage? Use Chroma to buff them. Been in the mission for half an hour and running out of dmg again? Just redeploy them. Ancient Healer and Trinity are really good even individually. The only downside with specters is that while Ancient Healer is way too good the other syndicate specters are not that great as they do nothing special and have extreme stormtrooper aim. Especially Moa has both low accuracy and dies super quickly. I do not think there's a good chance of them ever getting buffed because DE does not like automation of gameplay and I think players have already found ways to automate it further than they intended. If everyone in the team uses every aforementioned specter in an defense arbitration you can literally, by the true meaning of the word, go afk. Just be sure not to stay still for over 2 mins though. If more people realized this and utilized it then DE would go nuts and instantly nerf it.
Отредактировано Sceles; 19 мая. 2019 г. в 2:00
Автор сообщения: Incend
The issue is that currently specters arent very appealing (at least imo). Something like a shield osprey is good for helping you stay alive, a corrupted lancer is a good distraction, and then there are things like rollers which do nothing at all. But I feel like they should be able to at least do something besides tagging along or being a momentary distraction. They should be able to kill more than just infested maggots (not on the same level as players but a kill here and there would be nice). I also think that various eximus types can be very useful in different situations, and currently we only get a few that I don't find that helpful at all. And really, something like a corrupted bombard shouldnt have to fire 6 shots to kill a lvl 1 butcher, lets be honest here.
Standard specters drop from Syndicate invasions, they are also very low cost (using the 3 most common resources). This classifies them as intentionally disposable and not intended to be a large amount of assistance.

Rollers and are not useless as they spawn as a leech Eximus. This lets them survive longer while filling the roll as a decoy.

Moas are better since they spawn as Bliz Eximus and will provide armor bonuses to every friendly unit while also having a protective bubble. These can be used fairly well in the case of things like Sortie Defense missions as the Moa will have a fairly high level and help keep things alive longer. This Moa can also live fairly well as long as your squad is doing active killing. Similarly, the shield osprey does a similar thing but instead enhancing and recovering shields near an objective.

Ancient Specter spawns as Sanguine and provides damage resistance and healing in addition to being a fairly good meat shield.


Those are all things that are pretty damn good considering their low cost. Again, even the Lancer specter is not designed with the intention of killing things for the player. It is more a means of extra support and something for enemies to shoot at instead of the player.

They spawn at the level and capability of the enemies you are facing. The reason why it might take a specter several shots to kill a level 1 unit is because the specter is also a level 1 unit and has the same ♥♥♥♥♥♥ aim and low damage that a level 1 unit has. This becomes a very different story when doing higher level content. I frequently use specters to hold points in sortie interception missions and they do a darn good job (often better than the people I am randomly matched with). But if you are expecting specters to do killing for you, that's not going to happen. DE doesn't want to promote even more AFK play. Instead think of them as niche usage pieces that can be deployed from your gear.

Even Roller specters can be useful against infested since it will stagger and roll around distracting infested instead of letting them attack a defense target. Putting a Roller in a slightly difficult to reach spot and setting it to sit there will make alerted enemies try to path to and attack this roller. You can use this to take advantage of the abilities of other frames or create reasonable distractions away from a defense target.
Отредактировано BurlsoL; 19 мая. 2019 г. в 2:18
No_Quarter (Заблокирован) 19 мая. 2019 г. в 2:20 
Автор сообщения: Incend
I really don't get the "useful" and "OP" parts though. Can you elaborate on that?.
Nidus. Heals him self and any allied forces on his 4 and spams it quite often, buffs you, does tons of damage, really hard to kill even if you leave him alone in some corner to protect something.

Khora, she spams her 4 all the time and has very low duration which makes her insanely good at CC, her Venari is pretty much a pet that cannot die. Pretty good at helping with area defense, did not use her long enough to see if Venari would switch to heal when needed, she does have her own health regen so that's a plus.

Problem with making specters insanely smart and useful is being carried trough missions.
Imho if you look at specters as something to synergize with and as something to fill the small gap in what needs to be done then they are perfect as they are. You can rely on them to hold interception point for the most part, but you still have to kill enemies somewhere and not be afk.

Specter's role is support and they do that pretty well, as long as you do not let them die fighting 20 enemies alone. Also choice of weapons really matters, I only started using specters somewhat recently so I am far from learning everything there but high MR weapons seem to preform better.

Not to say specters are perfect, Atlas for example never tries to heal him self even tho he can, he is likely using code adapted for how he worked pre-rework. Hildryn does not seem to know how to use abilities, Equinox seems like she is just randomly using her abilities.

So Ai could be a better and smarter to see if they need healing, if they should rush into 20 enemies or stay on range to fight them while using some abilities. Power level is fine imo, just give them some brain - they know if they or we need healing, they know if 20 enemies with 20k HP each are too much for 2k dps weapon, it is just a set of comparing values.
Автор сообщения: BurlsoL
Автор сообщения: Incend
The issue is that currently specters arent very appealing (at least imo). Something like a shield osprey is good for helping you stay alive, a corrupted lancer is a good distraction, and then there are things like rollers which do nothing at all. But I feel like they should be able to at least do something besides tagging along or being a momentary distraction. They should be able to kill more than just infested maggots (not on the same level as players but a kill here and there would be nice). I also think that various eximus types can be very useful in different situations, and currently we only get a few that I don't find that helpful at all. And really, something like a corrupted bombard shouldnt have to fire 6 shots to kill a lvl 1 butcher, lets be honest here.
Standard specters drop from Syndicate invasions, they are also very low cost (using the 3 most common resources). This classifies them as intentionally disposable and not intended to be a large amount of assistance.

Rollers and are not useless as they spawn as a leech Eximus. This lets them survive longer while filling the roll as a decoy.

Moas are better since they spawn as Bliz Eximus and will provide armor bonuses to every friendly unit while also having a protective bubble. These can be used fairly well in the case of things like Sortie Defense missions as the Moa will have a fairly high level and help keep things alive longer. This Moa can also live fairly well as long as your squad is doing active killing. Similarly, the shield osprey does a similar thing but instead enhancing and recovering shields near an objective.

Ancient Specter spawns as Sanguine and provides damage resistance and healing in addition to being a fairly good meat shield.


Those are all things that are pretty damn good considering their low cost. Again, even the Lancer specter is not designed with the intention of killing things for the player. It is more a means of extra support and something for enemies to shoot at instead of the player.

They spawn at the level and capability of the enemies you are facing. The reason why it might take a specter several shots to kill a level 1 unit is because the specter is also a level 1 unit and has the same ♥♥♥♥♥♥ aim and low damage that a level 1 unit has. This becomes a very different story when doing higher level content. I frequently use specters to hold points in sortie interception missions and they do a darn good job (often better than the people I am randomly matched with). But if you are expecting specters to do killing for you, that's not going to happen. DE doesn't want to promote even more AFK play. Instead think of them as niche usage pieces that can be deployed from your gear.

Even Roller specters can be useful against infested since it will stagger and roll around distracting infested instead of letting them attack a defense target. Putting a Roller in a slightly difficult to reach spot and setting it to sit there will make alerted enemies try to path to and attack this roller. You can use this to take advantage of the abilities of other frames or create reasonable distractions away from a defense target.
The rollers sound useful until you realize that them being a leech eximus means nothing since they get one or two shot most of the time along with the fact that they can’t do damage, meaning the “leech” part never actually comes into play.

I’ve never actually seen the moa specter do much besides shooting around targets. Very rarely I see it slamming the ground, doing its little AOE thing. So I’m not sure about the buffs you listed.

Oh and specters like the bombard are just as horrible at lvl 110 as they are at lvl 1, I tested this. Enemies scale just like the specter, meaning their mediocrity doesn’t go away.

Imo shield ospreys, ancient healers, and warframe specters are the only ones that are actually useful. And that’s coming from someone who uses different specters all the time.
Автор сообщения: Incend
The rollers sound useful until you realize that them being a leech eximus means nothing since they get one or two shot most of the time along with the fact that they can’t do damage, meaning the “leech” part never actually comes into play.

I’ve never actually seen the moa specter do much besides shooting around targets. Very rarely I see it slamming the ground, doing its little AOE thing. So I’m not sure about the buffs you listed.

Oh and specters like the bombard are just as horrible at lvl 110 as they are at lvl 1, I tested this. Enemies scale just like the specter, meaning their mediocrity doesn’t go away.

Imo shield ospreys, ancient healers, and warframe specters are the only ones that are actually useful. And that’s coming from someone who uses different specters all the time.
Roller is not there for damage, it is a decoy and disruption thing. Using it in a room full of enemies will naturally make it die very quickly. Dropping it in a secluded corner of the room will make alerted enemies path to it. The roller slashing damage is just there to make it survive better against melee range enemies. Against anything with a gun, yeah, it will die quickly. As it is silent, it can be dropped in certain spy rooms to disrupt enemies from triggering alarms, but this is a more niche usage. Really though, you are expecting too much from a thing that is cheap and intentionally disposable.

All the specters are similar, something you use for those special cases.

Bombards aren't there for main damage dealing. They are support fire to disrupt enemies since they shoot slowly and will randomly target an enemy instead of going after what you want them to shoot at. You don't drop them into the middle of a room expecting them to do much, instead you park them in a corner somewhere that they won't draw much attention. Such as some of the defense or interception rooms. They are not there to kill enemies, just to prevent enemies from sitting on the console to convert the point or being able to deal melee damage to the pod. Higher level isn't going to change the fact that they are still bombards and generally not very good against multiple targets. But if it makes you feel better, I agree, the cost of these ones is usually far more than any benefit they offer. But if you're walking around with that many ducats and nothing worthwhile to use them on, cost isn't likely a problem with you.
Автор сообщения: BurlsoL
Автор сообщения: Incend
The rollers sound useful until you realize that them being a leech eximus means nothing since they get one or two shot most of the time along with the fact that they can’t do damage, meaning the “leech” part never actually comes into play.

I’ve never actually seen the moa specter do much besides shooting around targets. Very rarely I see it slamming the ground, doing its little AOE thing. So I’m not sure about the buffs you listed.

Oh and specters like the bombard are just as horrible at lvl 110 as they are at lvl 1, I tested this. Enemies scale just like the specter, meaning their mediocrity doesn’t go away.

Imo shield ospreys, ancient healers, and warframe specters are the only ones that are actually useful. And that’s coming from someone who uses different specters all the time.
Roller is not there for damage, it is a decoy and disruption thing. Using it in a room full of enemies will naturally make it die very quickly. Dropping it in a secluded corner of the room will make alerted enemies path to it. The roller slashing damage is just there to make it survive better against melee range enemies. Against anything with a gun, yeah, it will die quickly. As it is silent, it can be dropped in certain spy rooms to disrupt enemies from triggering alarms, but this is a more niche usage. Really though, you are expecting too much from a thing that is cheap and intentionally disposable.

All the specters are similar, something you use for those special cases.

Bombards aren't there for main damage dealing. They are support fire to disrupt enemies since they shoot slowly and will randomly target an enemy instead of going after what you want them to shoot at. You don't drop them into the middle of a room expecting them to do much, instead you park them in a corner somewhere that they won't draw much attention. Such as some of the defense or interception rooms. They are not there to kill enemies, just to prevent enemies from sitting on the console to convert the point or being able to deal melee damage to the pod. Higher level isn't going to change the fact that they are still bombards and generally not very good against multiple targets. But if it makes you feel better, I agree, the cost of these ones is usually far more than any benefit they offer. But if you're walking around with that many ducats and nothing worthwhile to use them on, cost isn't likely a problem with you.

If all their purpose is to act like sitting ducks i'd rather deploy some Warframe specters, or Clem.
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Дата создания: 18 мая. 2019 г. в 21:34
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