DE, Stop Nerfing Player Efficiency

[Namename]

For many years DE threw hoards of enemies at players. They even tied the completion of missions to the extermination of these hoards. What was the community's response? A lot of players used AOE weapons. DE kept throwing fodder enemies fast at them, so they need to kill them fast. DE, AOE usage is a player response to your actions. That 'boom and zoom' meta some complain about was just the most efficient way to play your game.

Then DE decides to nerf AOE. However, in doing so they gave player efficiency a heavy nerf. DE, if you don't want AOE being used so much, you shouldn't have thrown so many fodder enemies at people. This whole 'issue' is your fault. And instead of fixing it properly you act like players are in the wrong and nerf their weapons.

Counters and Refutations:

"AOE is still usable."

Not efficiently. That 'AOE spam' some complained about was actually just the most efficient way to use AOE. DE spammed so many enemies that you had to shoot that fast to keep up with them.

"There are still AOE frames."

If AOE is the solution to this problem, why nerf it in the first place?

"It disrupts my playstyle."

And being forced to not use AOE disrupts my playstyle. When you are trying to include someone at the sake of another, that means you are excluding that another. Not very inclusive now is it? In the end it matters who's standpoint is right. IMO, the pro-AOE side is right because it's just players trying to be efficient. If one gets tired of such efficiency they could play solo where everything is slow or gather a group of like minded individuals to grind slower. However, slowing down the efficiency of the whole player base because some people are upset with it is the wrong move IMO.

"AOE was used too much."

I've explained why that's the case. In the end it's not really that AOE was overly dominate, but that the need for AOE was overly dominate. If DE hadn't kept throwing hoard after hoard, it wouldn't be so used as it is now. I wouldn't mind using the Soma Prime sometimes, but because Soma Prime was inefficient compared to AOE I never used it.

"AOE allowed for automated gameplay."

No it did not. I could not aim south 10 meters and hit the enemy 10 meters north of me. In the end it still requires you to aim at the general direction of the enemies. And let's be honest, when most guns are shooting they're aimed in a general direction. When people are using a gun like the soma, most aren't aiming at the enemies' heads because there are way too many heads. Instead, they are just aiming at the general direction of the hoards.

Another point is that being 'tactical' is just inefficient in hoards. IF DE throws dozens of enemies at players, aiming at them one by one is far less efficient than taking them out in groups. Again, this is DE's problem because they threw hoards, not the player's problem. Yet DE decided to blame the player and nerf AOE.

I like Warframe, but as I play it with these nerfs I'm liking it less and less because aiming at hoards one by one is quite tedious. Maybe I'll just move on eventually, but I'll stick around until then I guess. I made a post about this issue earlier, but I wanted to make a more comprehensive one that got at the heart of the issue directly. So I made this.

[Maverick Mullah]

Първоначално публикувано от ☼Solaire Of Astora☼:

The only reason I'm responding is to tell people that it is not "hoards" it is "hordes".

A "hoard" is typically applied to sentences like; "Oh look a dragons hoard!"

Whereas "hordes" are applied as such; "damn would you look at that horde of zombies"

That is all.


Edit: I made this comment since I am getting sick and tired of almost getting a stroke when reading posts in this forum, seriously people, please learn to use the correct words, this stuff is important.

Amen.

[p o y o]

The only thing i know for sure is that most if not all AOE weapons shouldn't be able to head shot / weakpoint proc.

Първоначално публикувано от dsantos259:

2 - Lets design massive rooms/locations for exclusive use for Survival (preferably in the open), removing camping spots and make what other spots that can be camped to have multiple directions a player can be harrassed from.

i say go for it, screw the farm even, im dying for plastids and oxium atm but idc, gameplay above all else

Първоначално публикувано от GreatPalm:

To make non-AOE more attractive, i think, devs should separate mobs into two very strict groups: nuke fodder in huge numbers and mini-bosses with 90% resistance to AOE damage.

you just described a more air tight eximus unit

Първоначално публикувано от CY13ERPUNK:

imho the correct course of action is for DE to bring back self-dmg from AoE weapon-based explosions
this immediately creates an incentive to play more carefully when using weapons that can clear whole tiles ; and/or makes the use of those weapons very dangerous without the use of a mod slot to reduce to self-dmg [ie bring these mods back]
keep the current stagger/knockback the same [ie do not change this]

the only specific sort of exception i think would be to the thrown-glaive type melee

Even though this is regression I'm torn on it. On one hand I like some of the AOE stagger animations on the other I'd rather just take more damage if i used it too close.

I think the problem is the fact that the knock down animations suck and there's no player feedback to hand spring or recover from them.

[tniromin2]

Първоначално публикувано от LexCondran:

Първоначално публикувано от DI They ruined Baldurs Gate:

DE nerfing things cause they need players to keep on spending money to skip the grind since the beginning of time.
Nothing will change that. DE needs money after all and at the end of the day.
Most nerfs dont make sense or are just lowbrow decisions to punish everyone for what is caused by a small portion of the playerbase.

I just point at the "mostly negative" rating and it says it all.

DE Pablo, he tends to have nerfed EVERY single thing he looks at as meta
Most his nerfs come from Watching Warframe youtubers
Like Tactical Potato, Quite Shy, Mogamu, Iwoply

Interesting.

[lowgrav]

Първоначално публикувано от LexCondran:

Not really, it was fine
Until, Eximus Overguard, made all CC Worthless, 100% worthless

well i wouldnt say all CC is worthless one form of CC remains unchanged and works 100% fine even on overguarded enimys (even disruption demolysts but thats another enimy) but the problem with the untouched CC is it dont work if the caster is in limbos rift or if the caster is invisable so i guess thats why the community continues to not recognise its existance or even experiment in synages