The Questionable Ethics of Kuva Lich Trading

[Beep]

So you've converted a lich. This lich, despite their previous alignment, has come over to your side. They assist your cause, and they are a valuable asset. In-lore, it is likely that they will come to truly respect the tenno and their intentions, especially if they get in contact with Steel Meridian, and what do you do? You sell the lich to another tenno who WILL kill them to get their weapon.

Seems a bit extreme to me

[PhellAsleep]

Originally posted by KIREEKPSO:

New Loka:
"Your Humanity is a beacon for all"

*proceed to trade a lich and keep converted liches on my side*

You say that like humans haven't been known to do that to each other before.

[Dzaka]

Originally posted by SlashyMcStabbington:

Originally posted by Mooman:

Remember Tenno used to be the enforcers of the Orokin empire, so this kind of behaviour is expected.

Selling people? Killing them, sure, but selling them seems different

https://youtu.be/cUyuMMWbvmU?t=2m49s things seem pretty much in line with the rest of warframe's lore

[8000 moths in a Honda Civic]

Originally posted by Incunabulum:

Originally posted by SlashyMcStabbington:

So you've converted a lich. This lich, despite their previous alignment, has come over to your side. They assist your cause, and they are a valuable asset. In-lore, it is likely that they will come to truly respect the tenno and their intentions, especially if they get in contact with Steel Meridian, and what do you do? You sell the lich to another tenno who WILL kill them to get their weapon.

Seems a bit extreme to me

You are a one person genocide. You invade other nation's strongholds, murder anyone who gets in your way, and steal their ♥♥♥♥.

Ethical is not the word I would have ever used to describe a Tenno. We are not heroes.

...did you forget that we're fighting factions who would do far worse?

[abdera2020]

We massacre both Grineer, Corpus, Infested and Sentients. Heck we bully Stalker for his drops. Now you worry about slavery?

[MotherVicar]

pretty sure lore wise you just mind whipe/convert them tbh

[Beep]

Originally posted by PrettyPThreegion:

pretty sure lore wise you just mind whipe/convert them tbh

When you convert them they say something to the effect of "If the queens catch me I'm dead, but deal" which makes me think that isn't the case. Even if it was, it's still pretty questionable to sell them

[Phantom]

In-lore. There's you guys' problem. Taking a simple trade mechanic to heart. Damn.

[Radioactive Grass]

Originally posted by SlashyMcStabbington:

Originally posted by PrettyPThreegion:

pretty sure lore wise you just mind whipe/convert them tbh

When you convert them they say something to the effect of "If the queens catch me I'm dead, but deal" which makes me think that isn't the case. Even if it was, it's still pretty questionable to sell them

In that case we aren't necessarily bad guys. As I've said before all Grineer are programmed to serve the Queens from the moment they are born to the moment they die.

Grineer like Clem and the Grineer part of the Steel Meridian where born with a defect that allowed them to disobey they queens. So when we convert our Litches we are most likely overriding that program, setting them free, but they join us by choise.

To me Litches are more like crew. They can be fired or hired or exchanged.

[RomanDiCario]

Funny how DE doesn't have a problem with this, but when someone simply says the word "Gay" in region chat people get suspended from all chats for 1 week
Plain dumb tbh

[Beep]

Originally posted by Candy bar bag carrying bag:

Originally posted by SlashyMcStabbington:

When you convert them they say something to the effect of "If the queens catch me I'm dead, but deal" which makes me think that isn't the case. Even if it was, it's still pretty questionable to sell them

In that case we aren't necessarily bad guys. As I've said before all Grineer are programmed to serve the Queens from the moment they are born to the moment they die.

Grineer like Clem and the Grineer part of the Steel Meridian where born with a defect that allowed them to disobey they queens. So when we convert our Litches we are most likely overriding that program, setting them free, but they join us by choise.

To me Litches are more like crew. They can be fired or hired or exchanged.

You "exchange" them to people who WILL kill them. That is the function of trading liches. Granted, sometimes a lich may be sold for a silly name and the buyer will convert them, but primarily lich trading is for the weapon, which you have to kill the lich to get.

In addition, if we truely are reprogramming them instead of simply convincing them, that might be an issue too. Reprogramming someone so that they are the type of person that will choose what you want them to choose and calling it freedom is not good. You might be able to argue that, since they are a threat and will likely end many innocent lives, it is a necessary evil while being a more ethical alternative to outright killing them. That would be an interesting argument, one that I might get behind, but it would still only be the best choice out of a bunch of bad choices.

[Radioactive Grass]

Originally posted by SlashyMcStabbington:

Originally posted by Candy bar bag carrying bag:

In that case we aren't necessarily bad guys. As I've said before all Grineer are programmed to serve the Queens from the moment they are born to the moment they die.

Grineer like Clem and the Grineer part of the Steel Meridian where born with a defect that allowed them to disobey they queens. So when we convert our Litches we are most likely overriding that program, setting them free, but they join us by choise.

To me Litches are more like crew. They can be fired or hired or exchanged.

You "exchange" them to people who WILL kill them. That is the function of trading liches. Granted, sometimes a lich may be sold for a silly name and the buyer will convert them, but primarily lich trading is for the weapon, which you have to kill the lich to get.

In addition, if we truely are reprogramming them instead of simply convincing them, that might be an issue too. Reprogramming someone so that they are the type of person that will choose what you want them to choose and calling it freedom is not good. You might be able to argue that, since they are a threat and will likely end many innocent lives, it is a necessary evil while being a more ethical alternative to outright killing them. That would be an interesting argument, one that I might get behind, but it would still only be the best choice out of a bunch of bad choices.

Not necessarily reprogramming them, but turning off the thing forcing them to serve the Queens.

Also it was my misconception that you can trade Litches once they where converted.

[Fireiznotkool]

Protecting cute female liches is my job. My harem is consists of 5 fem liches so far. Trading them is not right lads.

[Beep]

Originally posted by Candy bar bag carrying bag:

Originally posted by SlashyMcStabbington:

You "exchange" them to people who WILL kill them. That is the function of trading liches. Granted, sometimes a lich may be sold for a silly name and the buyer will convert them, but primarily lich trading is for the weapon, which you have to kill the lich to get.

In addition, if we truely are reprogramming them instead of simply convincing them, that might be an issue too. Reprogramming someone so that they are the type of person that will choose what you want them to choose and calling it freedom is not good. You might be able to argue that, since they are a threat and will likely end many innocent lives, it is a necessary evil while being a more ethical alternative to outright killing them. That would be an interesting argument, one that I might get behind, but it would still only be the best choice out of a bunch of bad choices.

Not necessarily reprogramming them, but turning off the thing forcing them to serve the Queens.

Also it was my misconception that you can trade Litches once they where converted.

Nothing is "forcing" them to serve the queens. They do it willingly because they were indoctrinated from the moment they emerged from their cloning tube.

Also it's not a misconception. You can trade them after they are converted. The issue is that the person you trade them to then has to go through the process of killing or converting the lich again, and considering that the main function is to use this trading to indirectly trade kuva weapons, the majority of buyers will kill their liches.

If trading converted liches left them still converted, then you would be right in that it could be considered a labor exchange.

[Beep]

Originally posted by Dispacket:

Protecting cute female liches is my job. My harem is consists of 5 fem liches so far. Trading them is not right lads.

I don't think grineer don't have reproductive organs, or at the very least they are pretty much unrecognizable, so at least I can be confident you are remaining a gentleman.

[Radioactive Grass]

Originally posted by SlashyMcStabbington:

Originally posted by Candy bar bag carrying bag:

Not necessarily reprogramming them, but turning off the thing forcing them to serve the Queens.

Also it was my misconception that you can trade Litches once they where converted.

Nothing is "forcing" them to serve the queens. They do it willingly because they were indoctrinated from the moment they emerged from their cloning tube.

Also it's not a misconception. You can trade them after they are converted. The issue is that the person you trade them to then has to go through the process of killing or converting the lich again, and considering that the main function is to use this trading to indirectly trade kuva weapons, the majority of buyers will kill their liches.

If trading converted liches left them still converted, then you would be right in that it could be considered a labor exchange.

From the Warframe Wiki:

"The Steel Meridian is one of the six main syndicates, led by a female Grineer defector identified as Cressa Tal. Comprising ex-Grineer forces born with a genetic flaw that enables them to disobey the Grineer Queens"

"Clem is a Grineer defector who serves as one of Darvo's undercover contractors, providing the merchant with information. Born with a cloning mutation that allowed him to disobey the Twin Queens"

These imply somthing is forcing the Grineer to Obey the Queens.