Multiple polarization's on the same mod slot

[starterpack]

Why is there still exclusively one polarity per mod slot? Its not like it would make you any more powerful to have a slot with more than one because you can already polarize each slot to perfectly fit whatever build you want. Adding the ability to polarize a slot multiple times would only allow for extra experimentation at the cost of more forma/leveling time which is a good tradeoff in my opinion.

[404_Gordon_Not_Found]

basically A QoL change

now if I want more than 3 builds(for whatever reason) or different high cost builds for my weapons/warframes I'll need multiple copies of it. With convertible polarities I can just keep one weapon/warframe, not having to swap it out every time I need the other builds.

[Formous]

I honestly do not agree with this proposition. Beyond making weapons expensive, there has been almost no reason for me to ever have to change Forma. I know my weapons like the back of my hand at this point, but never have I had to use Forma to change a slot. There is no reason for this at all. It's not DE's fault or mine that someone is willynilly and careless with how they do modding.

Besides, if you did this, everyone would just have universal mod slots on every weapon. It'd make that special feeling of the weapon being hand customized away. This is something I have come to like. Yes, it's not easy to Forma a weapon many times, but the Polarities are akin to the Operator making changes to the weapon that utterly change how it's held, used, and functioned. Like taking out a gun barrel and replacing it with stainless steel. If it was universal, there is no reason to consider building.

Get smart with your work. There is simply no reason to have universal modding.

Psychic hits it on the head too. Really this would just end up being broken at it's core. This game was never meant to just be easy, and a universal forma would only make modding a brainless endevour.

[No_Quarter]

Diposting pertama kali oleh 404_Gordon_Not_Found:

basically A QoL change

now if I want more than 3 builds(for whatever reason) or different high cost builds for my weapons/warframes I'll need multiple copies of it. With convertible polarities I can just keep one weapon/warframe, not having to swap it out every time I need the other builds.

if you call it QoL it does not mean it is - if you wanna have 75 builds you need more duplicates of the same item.

it is bad idea in the core, it defies any logic

[Malidictus]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Formous:

It's not DE's fault or mine that someone is willynilly and careless with how they do modding.

This concept of permanence isn't designed to be enjoyed. It has its roots in old subscription MMOs, as a time sink. The "benefit" of sitting outside the game with a third-party build planner or a spreadsheet is a reverse-engineered justification for a system designed with player detriment in mind. I'm sure there's a psychological benefit to getting it "right," but I'd argue that's far outweighed by the danger of getting it wrong and being stuck with it. Maybe back in the 90s that might have been acceptable, but we've known since at least Diablo 2 (and probably earlier) that people don't like being stuck with bad decisions they made when first starting out.

Again, it's like people forget that this game is played by more than just jaded veterans who no longer find pleasure in anything but hard grind. New players exist who are still experiementing with the game and for whom greater flexibility helps ensure a more welcoming experience. This whole mentality strikes me as an example of "♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, got mine." Everything you're railing against is already doable, it just takes more time, more grind and more work. "Balance" is not an issue, especially when you then proceed to deliberately ignore balance considerations besides the ones who support your point.

Diposting pertama kali oleh Formous:

Besides, if you did this, everyone would just have universal mod slots on every weapon. It'd make that special feeling of the weapon being hand customized away. This is something I have come to like.

That's assuming you put literally no thought in the system and implement literally no limitations on it. As I said before, there are plenty that could be done. You can limit the number of polarities per slot, permit only a subset of dual-polarity options, permit only a small number of multi-polarity slots, enforce a limit on polarity for an item (say, 8) and many other options. Rejecting the suggestion out of hand without considering or showing a willingness to discuss it is... Well, it's not going to make it go away, put it like that.

Diposting pertama kali oleh Formous:

Yes, it's not easy to Forma a weapon many times,

Yes, it's very easy to forma a weapon many times. It just takes time. My Prisma Gorgon is sitting on I think its fifth polarisation right now, and I've had no meaningful difficulty doing it. Not unless you count boredome... Because yeah, this whole process is starting to get really old. But that's balance by frustration - a balance approach which is universally panned, and I feel for good reason. This game offers no feeling of items being "tailor made" to you beyone what any game with item customisation does. Diablo 3, The Division, Payday 2 and more - they all offer item and build customisation. In theory, you can make a build purely your own, but chances are it's going to be a lot like most people's own unique snowflake builds.

Right now in Warframe, the only obstacle before modding a weapon exactly the way you're for some reason afraid of people doing is time and patience. There's nothing special about it, nothing personal about it. I mean, sure, mod selection does matter, but the restrictions on it make builds LESS personal, not more so. If you want true creative expression, then limitations just serve to bottle-neck you down the same path as everybody else. Plenty of games have allowed costless item hot-swapping, including Warframe, and it hasn't ruined them yet.

Diposting pertama kali oleh No_Quarter:

it is bad idea in the core, it defies any logic

What logic exactly does it defy? Because I can similarly claim that this suggestion defies bacon and say about as much.

[Whiplash]

Nothing defies bacon. It's too powerful.

[No_Quarter]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Malidictus:

Diposting pertama kali oleh No_Quarter:

it is bad idea in the core, it defies any logic

What logic exactly does it defy? Because I can similarly claim that this suggestion defies bacon and say about as much.

Diposting pertama kali oleh Whiplash:

Nothing defies bacon. It's too powerful.

but for real, polarizations represent schools of focus, each school has the idea for it - aggressive, defensive, cunning, tactical etc.
you cannot use all schools at once, same as one slot cannot use more polarities at once.

[Malidictus]

Diposting pertama kali oleh No_Quarter:

but for real, polarizations represent schools of focus, each school has the idea for it - aggressive, defensive, cunning, tactical etc. you cannot use all schools at once, same as one slot cannot use more polarities at once.

Thermian argument notwithstanding, my impression is that Polarisation is a technological term. The names of the polarities do borrow from, uh... Orokin words, I think, but they aren't "schools" in the same way as Operator Focus Scools are. You can argue technobabble one way or the other, which is why I default to a game mechanics argument - what does this do to balance?

I personally don't want a system which allows me to put all of the polarities on all of the slots because that absolutely does render polarity meaningless. It's rather the same as an item's level is largely meaningless. Oh, sure, Warframes are weaker at low level and their abilities scale up, but does anyone honestly consider a below-30 Warframe as anything but a transitional state? Polarity is intended to matter so some restrictions still need to apply.

I'm still of the opinion, however, that those restrictions CAN be loosened up some. I'd be willing to allow players to have 1 or 2 slots with at most 2 polarities on them, as long as no more polarities exist than the total number of slots on the weapon. A Warframe would thus allow at most 10, a melee weapon at most 9, fireatms at most 8. This gives players a choice - polarise ALL of your slots, or polarise most of the slots but leave a couple to "flex." In my case, a single slot would be enough to handle different damage types, as one of the basic damage mods (Cold) has a different polarity from the rest of them.

Just stripping player restrictions wholesale is rarely a good idea outside of extreme circumstances, but offering conditional exceptions does tend to offer a few extra choices that I feel the game could benefit from.

[No_Quarter]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Malidictus:

Diposting pertama kali oleh No_Quarter:

but for real, polarizations represent schools of focus, each school has the idea for it - aggressive, defensive, cunning, tactical etc. you cannot use all schools at once, same as one slot cannot use more polarities at once.

Thermian argument notwithstanding, my impression is that Polarisation is a technological term. The names of the polarities do borrow from, uh... Orokin words, I think, but they aren't "schools" in the same way as Operator Focus Scools are. You can argue technobabble one way or the other, which is why I default to a game mechanics argument - what does this do to balance?

I personally don't want a system which allows me to put all of the polarities on all of the slots because that absolutely does render polarity meaningless. It's rather the same as an item's level is largely meaningless. Oh, sure, Warframes are weaker at low level and their abilities scale up, but does anyone honestly consider a below-30 Warframe as anything but a transitional state? Polarity is intended to matter so some restrictions still need to apply.

I'm still of the opinion, however, that those restrictions CAN be loosened up some. I'd be willing to allow players to have 1 or 2 slots with at most 2 polarities on them, as long as no more polarities exist than the total number of slots on the weapon. A Warframe would thus allow at most 10, a melee weapon at most 9, fireatms at most 8. This gives players a choice - polarise ALL of your slots, or polarise most of the slots but leave a couple to "flex." In my case, a single slot would be enough to handle different damage types, as one of the basic damage mods (Cold) has a different polarity from the rest of them.

Just stripping player restrictions wholesale is rarely a good idea outside of extreme circumstances, but offering conditional exceptions does tend to offer a few extra choices that I feel the game could benefit from.

1) if you cannot manage your ultimate builds by polarizing all the slots then you should not build that weapon
2) polarity of mods does represent schools, read what each school represents and then go see which mods have such polarity....

Madurai Pol Madurai - V (Damage, Powers) - Commonly dropped by Grineer.
Vazarin Pol Vazarin - D (Defensive, Health, Armor) - Dropped by all factions.
Naramon Pol Naramon - Dash/Bar (Utility, Misc.) - Commonly dropped by Corpus.
Zenurik Pol Zenurik - Scratch (Warframe Augments and Channeling Mods).
Unairu Pol Unairu - R - Introduced in Update 13.0 and used for certain Melee Stance Mods.
Penjaga Pol Penjaga - Y (Companion Abilities) - Dropped by all factions.

Madurai, School of the Fighters
Vazarin, School of the Protectors
Naramon, School of the Tacticians
Unairu, School of the Indomitable
Zenurik, School of the Arcane

does it make more sense to you now?

[Malidictus]

Diposting pertama kali oleh No_Quarter:

1) if you cannot manage your ultimate builds by polarizing all the slots then you should not build that weapon

OK, so "git gud" again. If you're going to boil all conversations down to that, then I'm no longer interested in anything you have to say. I already deleted one of these posts today, don't think I'll be deleting this one.

[No_Quarter]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Malidictus:

Diposting pertama kali oleh No_Quarter:

1) if you cannot manage your ultimate builds by polarizing all the slots then you should not build that weapon

OK, so "git gud" again. If you're going to boil all conversations down to that, then I'm no longer interested in anything you have to say. I already deleted one of these posts today, don't think I'll be deleting this one.

lol ignore my point that takes understanding and denies your wall of text 10/10

[Incunabulum]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Mail me to the Moon:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Walrus-Sama:

That's dumb. With two polarity's you'd always be in the red in atleast one.

Critical reading m8. He's asking: "why can't they make swapping polarities easier, It would make builds much more flexible"

The cons he is suggesting are: Having to polarize a slot multiple times to get the easy swaps

Well, the reason they don't do that is that they expect you to build multiple frames to support multiple builds.

Yes, multiple of the *same frame* if your needs/playstyle dictate a different build for the same frame for different parts of the game.

Now look - I'm not debatign the merits of this. I'm not saying its a good idea. Not saying its a bad one. Just saying that that is how you do multi-spec in this game. Its not significantly harder than multi-polarities for each slot. Once you get past the grind-wall to get that extra frame its effectively the same thing.

[Xazur]

They should just make it so if you forma a slot, you get the capacity halved regardless of what polarity mod you put in. It really makes me mad when I forma for 1 build, then other builds become non viable and the only alternative is to forma a new warframe.

[Gerbera_Tetra]

Meh, people are so negative these days.

Someone's gotta stir the pot, so let it be me.
I'll just put up another idea instead.

Allow one omni-slot per weapon, once a condition for that specific weapon has been met after maxing and catalyst installed. maybe something like a riven challenge or whatever, just make it something you have to work for.

I've always felt that damage mods like serration should be built in and scale up with rank instead as well. That should free up a slot for more flexibility without the omni slot.

Let the screaming (discussion) begin again.

[talkingmute]

Shhuuuuuuure, why don't we add in Umbra formas as welll... While we're at it make some frame rivens...

Sarcasm, please don't do either of those.

[Gerbera_Tetra]

Shuuuure, change the topic instead. I actually want that +350% sprint speed.