Mod for efficiency.

[joey]

I would like to build my Exc Umbra with energy efficiency so that I can spam Radial Howl and finish them with Exalted Blade. Which mods has the most efficiency?

[fat ♥♥♥♥]

get yourself a Fleeting Expertise, level it up to the 4th rank (no point in going for max rank) and get Streamline also. that gets you up to 175% efficiency which is the max

[Sceles]

Streamline and Fleeting Expertise are the only mods that give efficiency.

[Handoiron]

Exalted Blade energy drain per second is also affected by duration mods.

The limit to energy cost reduction is 25% of base so +75% efficiency caps your energy reduction.

For channeled abilities like Exalted Blade, duration also lowers energy cost per second by increasing the effective duration of the cost ticks. You still lose energy at the same tick length but the overall effect is to lower the cost per second.

Even though + efficience and + duration both affect channeled ability energy cost, the maximum effect is still 25% of the base energy cost.

The lowest you can get radial howl cost down to is 12.5. This requires a combiation of both Streamline and Fleeting Expertise to achieve.

Streamline is 5% efficiency per rank to a max of 30% and Fleeting Expertise is 10% per rank to a max of 60%. A typical combination to hit exactly 75% efficiency is to leave both 1 rank from max for +25% and +50% for the 75% total. This will limit the effect to your duration from Fleeting Expertise to -50% as well.

This will reduce the cost of your Radial Howl to the minimum but, because of the duration loss, won't reduce Exalted Blade to the minimum. You can just add some + duration mods to counter it though. You;ll also want the duration increase to make Radial Howl last longer.

[Sceles]

Originally posted by Handoiron:

Exalted Blade energy drain per second is also affected by duration mods.

The limit to energy cost reduction is 25% of base so +75% efficiency caps your energy reduction.

For channeled abilities like Exalted Blade, duration also lowers energy cost per second by increasing the effective duration of the cost ticks. You still lose energy at the same tick length but the overall effect is to lower the cost per second.

Even though + efficience and + duration both affect channeled ability energy cost, the maximum effect is still 25% of the base energy cost.

The lowest you can get radial howl cost down to is 12.5. This requires a combiation of both Streamline and Fleeting Expertise to achieve.

Streamline is 5% efficiency per rank to a max of 30% and Fleeting Expertise is 10% per rank to a max of 60%. A typical combination to hit exactly 75% efficiency is to leave both 1 rank from max for +25% and +50% for the 75% total. This will limit the effect to your duration from Fleeting Expertise to -50% as well.

This will reduce the cost of your Radial Howl to the minimum but, because of the duration loss, won't reduce Exalted Blade to the minimum. You can just add some + duration mods to counter it though. You;ll also want the duration increase to make Radial Howl last longer.

Drain abilities are not affected by the 175% efficiency cap and benefit from having both Streamline and Fleeting Expertise fully ranked.

Actually to clarify how this works: Because Fleeting Expertise also reduces duration you won't reach the maximum energy cost reduction by using Streamline and Fleeting Expertise, but maxing it will still reduce your energy drain because the efficiency it gives weights more than the duration you lose by using it.

[Wahnwitzig]

Originally posted by Sceles:

Drain abilities are not affected by the 175% efficiency cap and benefit from having both Streamline and Fleeting Expertise fully ranked.

Actually to clarify how this works: Because Fleeting Expertise also reduces duration you won't reach the maximum energy cost reduction by using Streamline and Fleeting Expertise, but maxing it will still reduce your energy drain because the efficiency it gives weights more than the duration you lose by using it.

The energy drain of Mesa's Peacemaker ability is the same with maxed and non-maxed Fleeting Expertise.

[Sceles]

Originally posted by куƶєє 💕:

Originally posted by Sceles:

Drain abilities are not affected by the 175% efficiency cap and benefit from having both Streamline and Fleeting Expertise fully ranked.

Actually to clarify how this works: Because Fleeting Expertise also reduces duration you won't reach the maximum energy cost reduction by using Streamline and Fleeting Expertise, but maxing it will still reduce your energy drain because the efficiency it gives weights more than the duration you lose by using it.

The energy drain of Mesa's Peacemaker ability is the same with maxed and non-maxed Fleeting Expertise.

If you have only Streamline and Fleeting Expertise equipped it isn't.

[Handoiron]

Originally posted by Sceles:

Drain abilities are not affected by the 175% efficiency cap and benefit from having both Streamline and Fleeting Expertise fully ranked.

Actually to clarify how this works: Because Fleeting Expertise also reduces duration you won't reach the maximum energy cost reduction by using Streamline and Fleeting Expertise, but maxing it will still reduce your energy drain because the efficiency it gives weights more than the duration you lose by using it.

Incorrect.....

Just verified it on my excalibur umbra.

Fleeting Expertise for 50% and streamline for 25% = 75% reduction and shows .63 energy per second (rounded from .625).

Fleeting Expertise for 50% and streamline for 30% = 80% reduction (displays 175% efficiency) and shows .63 energy per second NOT .5 energy per second as it would be for the 180% efficiency you say should apply. This was with the same exact + duration.

However, adjusting my + duration higher had absolutely no effect. Adjusting it lower to <100% duration did increase energy cost.

So, as I stated above, no matter what, the energy cost of Exalted Blade and other channeled abilities can not be reduced below 25% of the base cost no matter how much efficiency and duration you add.

If you choose to ignore the lost duration from fleeting expertise and maintain <100% duration, you CAN recover some of the lost efficiency by adding more levels to fleeting expertise and streamline, but it still can not exceed the 25% cost limit AND you sacrifice duration on your other abilities.

However, if you run the 75% efficiency -50% duration combo of fleeting expertise and streamline I suggested, you just have to add duration to get back up to or above 100% to maximize your efficiency and restore the length of your radial howl.

If you continue to ignore your duration loss and add levels to Fleeting Expertise and Streamline, you still lose length on your radial howl and won't make the full energy cost reduction.

The -60% duration from maxed fleeting expertise brings you down to 40% duration effectively multiplying your energy cost by 250% which can not be countered by the full 190% reduction of max fleeting expertise and streamline.

In fact, the effect of Fleeting Expertise alone on channeled ability efficiency is absolutley nothing. With no other duration or efficiency affecting mods, the energy per second cost is unaffected.

This is because reducing the cost by a % and then increasing the time per cost by the same % completely cancels the benefit to the efficiency of the channeled ability.

[Sceles]

Originally posted by Handoiron:

Originally posted by Sceles:

Drain abilities are not affected by the 175% efficiency cap and benefit from having both Streamline and Fleeting Expertise fully ranked.

Actually to clarify how this works: Because Fleeting Expertise also reduces duration you won't reach the maximum energy cost reduction by using Streamline and Fleeting Expertise, but maxing it will still reduce your energy drain because the efficiency it gives weights more than the duration you lose by using it.

Incorrect.....

Just verified it on my excalibur umbra.

Fleeting Expertise for 50% and streamline for 25% = 75% reduction and shows .63 energy per second (rounded from .625).

Fleeting Expertise for 50% and streamline for 30% = 80% reduction (displays 175% efficiency) and shows .63 energy per second NOT .5 energy per second as it would be for the 180% efficiency you say should apply. This was with the same exact + duration.

However, adjusting my + duration higher had absolutely no effect. Adjusting it lower to <100% duration did increase energy cost.

So, as I stated above, no matter what, the energy cost of Exalted Blade and other channeled abilities can not be reduced below 25% of the base cost no matter how much efficiency and duration you add.

If you choose to ignore the lost duration from fleeting expertise and maintain <100% duration, you CAN recover some of the lost efficiency by adding more levels to fleeting expertise and streamline, but it still can not exceed the 25% cost limit AND you sacrifice duration on your other abilities.

However, if you run the 75% efficiency -50% duration combo of fleeting expertise and streamline I suggested, you just have to add duration to get back up to or above 100% to maximize your efficiency and restore the length of your radial howl.

If you continue to ignore your duration loss and add levels to Fleeting Expertise and Streamline, you still lose length on your radial howl and won't make the full energy cost reduction.

The -60% duration from maxed fleeting expertise brings you down to 40% duration effectively multiplying your energy cost by 250% which can not be countered by the full 190% reduction of max fleeting expertise and streamline.

In fact, the effect of Fleeting Expertise alone on channeled ability efficiency is absolutley nothing. With no other duration or efficiency affecting mods, the energy per second cost is unaffected.

This is because reducing the cost by a % and then increasing the time per cost by the same % completely cancels the benefit to the efficiency of the channeled ability.

I was not incorrect. I said that if you have only Streamline and Fleeting Expertise equipped then using maxed Fleeting Expertise will increase your drain efficiency because the efficiency it gives, the part that goes above 175% that you can't see, still is there. And because it is there it will increase the efficiency of drain abilities as long as they have not hit their 25% efficiency cap. With enough duration you can reach max drain efficiency even without unmaxed Fleeting Expertise but this was not my point. My point was just to explain that the efficiency that goes over 175% still is there.

[jonnin]

its easy to recover your duration though. there are more mods with positive duration. As long as you don't want the impossible max everything, something has to give (strength, probably).

[Handoiron]

Originally posted by Sceles:

I was not incorrect. I said that if you have only Streamline and Fleeting Expertise equipped then using maxed Fleeting Expertise will increase your drain efficiency because the efficiency it gives, the part that goes above 175% that you can't see, still is there. And because it is there it will increase the efficiency of drain abilities as long as they have not hit their 25% efficiency cap. With enough duration you can reach max drain efficiency even without unmaxed Fleeting Expertise but this was not my point. My point was just to explain that the efficiency that goes over 175% still is there.

You said:

Originally posted by Sceles:

Drain abilities are not affected by the 175% efficiency cap and benefit from having both Streamline and Fleeting Expertise fully ranked.

Which anyone can see IS incorrect just by equiping those mods and doing a quick calculation. No combination of duration and / or efficiency moding can exceed the 175% efficiency cap. Nothing will reduce your costs below 25% of the base cost. Your statements aren't about exceeding the efficiency cap, they're about minimizing the efficiency loss due to duration loss due to using Fleeting Expertise.

You also said:

Originally posted by Sceles:

Because Fleeting Expertise also reduces duration you won't reach the maximum energy cost reduction by using Streamline and Fleeting Expertise, but maxing it will still reduce your energy drain because the efficiency it gives weights more than the duration you lose by using it.

Also which anyone can see is incorrect by equiping just the Fleeting Expertise alone and noticing that the energy per second shown on their channeled abilities is totally unaffected.

This means that, for channeled abilities, Fleeting Expertise has absolutely no net change to efficiency.

In effect, you are only using your streamline and other + duration mods to raise your channeled efficiency.

As I said, Your goal for efficiency should be to hit the 75% with fleeting expertise at 50% and streamline at 25%. Then make up that lost 50% duration with + duration mods for channeled abilities and other abilities with duration.

Overleveling Fleeting Expertise and / or Streamline is just using extra mod capacity to make yourself have to use even more mod capacity to recover lost duration. It will also have a limiting effect on the possible duration increase you end up with so your other non-channeled duration abilities will suffer a loss in efficiency due to loss of uptime meaning more frequent casting.

With your suggestion of maxed fleeting expertise and maxed streamline, power efficiency is 15% over the 175% cap for non-channeled abilities and it provides a 30% efficiency effect to channeled abilities at a loss of 60% duration. It also costs you 20 mod capacity.

With my suggestion of rank 4 fleeting expertise (50%) and streamline (25%), power efficiency is at the 175% cap for non-channeled abilities and it provides a 25% efficiency effect to channeled abilities at a loss of 50% duration.. It also costs 18 mod capacity.

With your way, you spend 2 more mod capacity AND have to re-gain 10% more duration to reach max reduction on channeled abilities which will cost even more mod capacity or, if you're working duration higher than 100% for other abilities, will lower the maximum + duration you can reach by 10%.

I suppose that technically, that extra 5% power efficiency CAN recover some of the extra efficiency loss duie to the extra 10% lost duration, but it definately doesn't recover more efficiency than that duration loses for you.

[Sceles]

Originally posted by Handoiron:

Originally posted by Sceles:

I was not incorrect. I said that if you have only Streamline and Fleeting Expertise equipped then using maxed Fleeting Expertise will increase your drain efficiency because the efficiency it gives, the part that goes above 175% that you can't see, still is there. And because it is there it will increase the efficiency of drain abilities as long as they have not hit their 25% efficiency cap. With enough duration you can reach max drain efficiency even without unmaxed Fleeting Expertise but this was not my point. My point was just to explain that the efficiency that goes over 175% still is there.

You said:

Originally posted by Sceles:

Drain abilities are not affected by the 175% efficiency cap and benefit from having both Streamline and Fleeting Expertise fully ranked.

Which anyone can see IS incorrect just by equiping those mods and doing a quick calculation. No combination of duration and / or efficiency moding can exceed the 175% efficiency cap. Nothing will reduce your costs below 25% of the base cost. Your statements aren't about exceeding the efficiency cap, they're about minimizing the efficiency loss due to duration loss due to using Fleeting Expertise.

I'm not talking about decreasing the skill energy cost below 25%, what I'm saying that any efficiency above 175% still affects drain efficiency even if it's not displayed.

Originally posted by Handoiron:

You also said:

Originally posted by Sceles:

Because Fleeting Expertise also reduces duration you won't reach the maximum energy cost reduction by using Streamline and Fleeting Expertise, but maxing it will still reduce your energy drain because the efficiency it gives weights more than the duration you lose by using it.

Also which anyone can see is incorrect by equiping just the Fleeting Expertise alone and noticing that the energy per second shown on their channeled abilities is totally unaffected.

This means that, for channeled abilities, Fleeting Expertise has absolutely no net change to efficiency.

In effect, you are only using your streamline and other + duration mods to raise your channeled efficiency.

As I said, Your goal for efficiency should be to hit the 75% with fleeting expertise at 50% and streamline at 25%. Then make up that lost 50% duration with + duration mods for channeled abilities and other abilities with duration.

Overleveling Fleeting Expertise and / or Streamline is just using extra mod capacity to make yourself have to use even more mod capacity to recover lost duration. It will also have a limiting effect on the possible duration increase you end up with so your other non-channeled duration abilities will suffer a loss in efficiency due to loss of uptime meaning more frequent casting.

With your suggestion of maxed fleeting expertise and maxed streamline, power efficiency is 15% over the 175% cap for non-channeled abilities and it provides a 30% efficiency effect to channeled abilities at a loss of 60% duration. It also costs you 20 mod capacity.

With my suggestion of rank 4 fleeting expertise (50%) and streamline (25%), power efficiency is at the 175% cap for non-channeled abilities and it provides a 25% efficiency effect to channeled abilities at a loss of 50% duration.. It also costs 18 mod capacity.

With your way, you spend 2 more mod capacity AND have to re-gain 10% more duration to reach max reduction on channeled abilities which will cost even more mod capacity or, if you're working duration higher than 100% for other abilities, will lower the maximum + duration you can reach by 10%.

I suppose that technically, that extra 5% power efficiency CAN recover some of the extra efficiency loss duie to the extra 10% lost duration, but it definately doesn't recover more efficiency than that duration loses for you.

I have not suggested to overlevel Fleeting Expertise. I was only talking about game mechanics. But some frames do not benefit from duration as much and Streamline + maxed Fleeting Expertise + Transient Fortitude + duration mod is a standard combination on those frames. You can't reach max efficiency with this combination using non-maxed Fleeting Expertise, not unless you use Narrow Minded and sacrifice range.

If you equip only Fleeting Expertise you will not see a change that is true and I don't know why it works that way. But if you equip Streamline and Fleeting Expertise you can see it. Streamline + 5/5 Fleeting Expertise gives better drain efficiency than Streamline + 4/5 Fleeting Expertise.