Nullifier Bubbles

[Ittrix]

They encourage boring lazy play. Players who want to do a complex style or work around their full kit to play the game are punished, and players who used to press 4 to win now press M1 and 4 to win. Punishes the wrong people. Needs tweaking.

Personally, I think they'd be much better if instead of turning off warframe abilities, they just turned off their effect. It opens up options for buffy frames, and doesn't hard shut out certain warframes like Limbo.

[MisterDad]

only issue ive ever had with nullifiers is when im being lazy and doing a hydroid or vauban farm. they arent hard for me to kill and im not even a good player

[PoolNoodle]

OP, tell your IGN profile name. might wana check it later

[Female_sniper]

引用自 Ittrix：

I focused more on making fun builds even if they weren't the most effective. Namely something like a headshot based Harrow, or a shotgun based bubble mag... of which both do not play nice with nullifiers. I'd rather not use rapid fire weapons. I find them boring, just like how I find Saryn boring.

Now that I try my darndest to enjoy the game in interesting ways, nullifiers have flown up on the hate list.

Whether it's silly, dumb, an overreaction of annoyance or I'm "refusing to adapt", at the end of the day all nullifiers do is push me towards grabbing Saryn and her ignis so I can get the content over with, rather than carefully thinking about how to deal with them with my current kit.

I am never even watching any of those streamers or youtubers suggestions on how to build any weapon or warframe, I too like to just have fun with the setups and find my own personal favorite.
What's the point of having the most OP settings anyway if people are just gonna complain the game is too easy, right.
Nah, I play around. I try to use all the frames I have, which is most of them apart from the few primes I missed out on or didn't bother to farm at some point. So got a lot to pick and choose from, it never gets boring and I never feel like I have to pick a specific frame or weapon against specific enemies. Though... I might not actively pick to play Hildryn on a Nightmare Vampire HP drain mode....

I still never feel like nullifiers are interrupting my gameplay. Nor any other enemy for that matter. If you got to change the nullifier into what you have suggested then he will just be another boring bubble muppet, having an even less purpose than the grineer ice-globe dude.
Did you run the missions where those nullifying bubbles are places randomly on the map?They are annoying.... The nullifier crewman is just a snack. It doesn't matter what weapon you use or what frame, he dies within 3 seconds.

You say you don't spam abilities, but sounds to me like you do if you are having problems with the nullifier.

[Ittrix]

引用自 Female_sniper：

You say you don't spam abilities, but sounds to me like you do if you are having problems with the nullifier.

Ennh, there's a fine line between spamming and using abilities. Do things right with Harrow and you won't run out of energy with the right rotation. You can't really compare balancing thurible, headshots, and your other 3 skills to spamming 4 as a saryn.
Nullifier doesn't discriminate, though. He'll shut down either.

In the same sense, group enough enemies with mag's skills to bubble and you won't run out even if there's always a bubble up somewhere. That's kinda the game though- you're supposed to use abilities. It's not just a third person shooter.

[Ittrix]

引用自 Female_sniper：

Did you run the missions where those nullifying bubbles are places randomly on the map?They are annoying.... The nullifier crewman is just a snack. It doesn't matter what weapon you use or what frame, he dies within 3 seconds.

I've been annoyed by nullifier burps in thermia fractures before as well. They'd sporadically remove my buff uptime, so just like with nullies I went and got a saryn after an hour of it.

[Female_sniper]

But you are only annoyed by the nullifier because you use your skills constantly. That's what I am trying to say.
If you just accept that they are there and they MIGHT interrupt your skills effectiveness if you dont shoot them before they reach you, then there is absolutely zero reason to be complaining about them.
It really is that simple.
And it has nothing to do with what weapon or frame you are using.
You may aswell just be complaining about getting stunned by an enemy because that also will interrupt whatever it is you were doing.

And it is good that the nullifier shut down every frame in the game.
And i definitely dont use it solely as a 3rd person shooter, but that doesnt mean I spam abilities and by spamming I mean constantly re-clicking a skill the moment it is used. I'm not really that obsessed by that, so that's why it doesn't bug me with nullifiers or any of the other interrupting enemies, they jsut add more to the game rather than just continuously being a mindless shoot/use abilities spam fest in whatever way people prefer.

[Ittrix]

引用自 Female_sniper：

But you are only annoyed by the nullifier because you use your skills constantly.

In a sense.
Abilities for warframes are literally one of the first talking points about why you should play the game on the steam page.
It's not as though I'm opposed to any ability resistance, but nullifiers are too much of a hard stop. They erase abilities, whether they are AOEs or buffs. Even using clever tactics like hopping into the bubble and into danger punishes you by forcing recasts and rebuilds.

That's what I am trying to say.
If you just accept that they are there and they MIGHT interrupt your skills effectiveness if you dont shoot them before they reach you, then there is absolutely zero reason to be complaining about them.

This is the next point I would hit up. Nullifiers are not something you can react to in time. Sometimes maybe, but they will often spawn in places that will poof your skill asap. There's many warframes that have huge skills that are inevitably going to get shut down if there is a nullie anywhere- whether you can see them or not.
So it isn't punishment for not reacting in time. It's punishment randomly and sporadically. Why play a frame who gets punished in ways I can't do anything about?
Answer is simple. There ain't a reason to. So I go and get my saryn to blare past the content.

And it has nothing to do with what weapon or frame you are using.

Yes it literally does. A buffy frame won't want to react in the same way as a AOE frame who won't want to deal with them unlike a saryn.

And i definitely dont use it solely as a 3rd person shooter, but that doesnt mean I spam abilities and by spamming I mean constantly re-clicking a skill the moment it is used. I'm not really that obsessed by that, so that's why it doesn't bug me with nullifiers or any of the other interrupting enemies, they jsut add more to the game rather than just continuously being a mindless shoot/use abilities spam fest in whatever way people prefer.

I don't spam either. However, skills are actively woven into my gameplay and I build my tools around them. Nullifiers sporadically turning them off before I could ever react doesn't add anything to the gameplay. It just makes it frustrating and tedious.

Arbitration drones- another enemy who messes with abilities- is a golden example here. Not reacting in time means that that group of enemies ignores my skills. Having one spawn too close doesn't sporadically make me recast everything after it's dealt with. If every nullifier was replaced with an arbitration drone, I'd be hyped.

[Thundercracker]

引用自 Ittrix：

引用自 DLOZanma：

You're telling me you enjoy your current Operator weapon THAT much?

Yeah. I generally pick weapons I like using. You don't? You might if you didn't have to pick specifically to counter nullies.

personally, i pick weapons i like to use from the weapons that are going to be effective against the enemies i face. then again, this is my general loadout 99% of the time. gaze primary, tombfinger secondary, and whatever melee i want. this gives me both a rapid-fire weapon, and a high damage per shot weapon.

[Ittrix]

引用自 Dr Gori：

引用自 Ittrix：

Yeah. I generally pick weapons I like using. You don't? You might if you didn't have to pick specifically to counter nullies.

personally, i pick weapons i like to use from the weapons that are going to be effective against the enemies i face. then again, this is my general loadout 99% of the time. gaze primary, tombfinger secondary, and whatever melee i want. this gives me both a rapid-fire weapon, and a high damage per shot weapon.

Which, yeah, is a thing. I understand what the immediate decision to make to fix the problem is. My issue is why limit the options at all? What benefit is brought to forcing a fast firing weapon into every loadout?

[Female_sniper]

You literally are the only one I know who think you can't react to the nullifier in time....
If you aren't just focused on looking straight ahead of you then you sure as hell will see that dude come walking way before he even deploy the bubble. He is slow, btw.

Honestly, I am seriously considering if you even are aware of being a troll, coz after reading everything you write I am trying to make sense of it but I can't...

Nullifiers are here to sto ppeopel from spamming/using skills. He does that perfectly and there is nothing gamebreaking about it.
He wont stop your skills without his bubble actually hitting your aoe or you in person, and you have enough time to react. I am not even that good at looking around me but I rarely get hit by his bubble so I realyl don't know what your problem is.
Just because you can't kill him with your skill alone doesn't remove the fun out of the game, and it certainly doesn't promote lazy gameplay, quite the opposite.
And if he makes you want to play your most OP warframe and most OP weapons then I am just sad for you. Really.

Gonna remove myself out of this discussion coz it is either a player who does not understand how to play without his skill-buffs, or a troll that is trolling himself.

[Ittrix]

引用自 Female_sniper：

You literally are the only one I know who think you can't react to the nullifier in time....

Dunno why. If the aoe covers a portion of another room that you can't see into then nullifiers in that room that you can't see into can poof it.
Bubbles can also clip through walls, making corners another threat. There's another guy on this exact thread who cited Limbo being useless because of this.

If you aren't just focused on looking straight ahead of you then you sure as hell will see that dude come walking way before he even deploy the bubble. He is slow, btw.

And if he's in another room? Around a corner? I can't see him in either situation, but his bubble will delete any skills that scrape it.

Honestly, I am seriously considering if you even are aware of being a troll, coz after reading everything you write I am trying to make sense of it but I can't...

Not. It sounds like the way you play warframe is pretty lacking of abilities, so it makes sense you wouldn't get ot.

Nullifiers are here to sto ppeopel from spamming/using skills. He does that perfectly and there is nothing gamebreaking about it.

Uh, no he doesn't. Saryn can still spam 4 all day as long as she takes 2 seconds after killing everything but the nullifier. It doesn't stop spammers at all. That's why nullifiers literally never bothered me while I was a saryn main- because they don't stop spammers.

I rarely get hit by his bubble so I realyl don't know what your problem is.

But you don't have to get hit by his bubble... you just have to have an AOE touch it. Another room, around a corner, for larger AOEs like Limbo's anywhere on the map, and he can delete your skill.

Just because you can't kill him with your skill alone doesn't remove the fun out of the game, and it certainly doesn't promote lazy gameplay, quite the opposite.

Agreed. There are many other enemies you can't kill with skills that aren't an issue. Like Arbitration drones.
However, actively deleting skills and buffs sporadically does remove fun from the game, and gets rid of incentives to use build up buffing frames or frames with longer set ups for their ability kills... often in favor of frames who can AOE everything while ignoring nullies, like saryn.

And if he makes you want to play your most OP warframe and most OP weapons then I am just sad for you. Really.

Yeah. I am too. It's why I'd like to see it fixed.

Gonna remove myself out of this discussion coz it is either a player who does not understand how to play without his skill-buffs, or a troll that is trolling himself.

Fair enough. Figured awhile back it'd roll this way, but it was nice talking to ya.

[BoiledInPilk]

引用自 Female_sniper：

You literally are the only one I know who think you can't react to the nullifier in time....
If you aren't just focused on looking straight ahead of you then you sure as hell will see that dude come walking way before he even deploy the bubble. He is slow, btw.

Honestly, I am seriously considering if you even are aware of being a troll, coz after reading everything you write I am trying to make sense of it but I can't...

Nullifiers are here to sto ppeopel from spamming/using skills. He does that perfectly and there is nothing gamebreaking about it.
He wont stop your skills without his bubble actually hitting your aoe or you in person, and you have enough time to react. I am not even that good at looking around me but I rarely get hit by his bubble so I realyl don't know what your problem is.
Just because you can't kill him with your skill alone doesn't remove the fun out of the game, and it certainly doesn't promote lazy gameplay, quite the opposite.
And if he makes you want to play your most OP warframe and most OP weapons then I am just sad for you. Really.

Gonna remove myself out of this discussion coz it is either a player who does not understand how to play without his skill-buffs, or a troll that is trolling himself.

I think its just two different mindsets. You believe that people are over-reliant on abilities and that stopping abilities through nullifiers will increase gameplay diversity. OP thinks that some abilities already do this and that nullifiers decrease diversity by forcing you to not use them even though their inherent nature already mitigates the issue.

[Thundercracker]

引用自 Ittrix：

Which, yeah, is a thing. I understand what the immediate decision to make to fix the problem is. My issue is why limit the options at all? What benefit is brought to forcing a fast firing weapon into every loadout?

probably because it plays into the meta?

rapid fire applies status effects quick. more status effects is more melee damage with a blood rush/weeping wounds/condition overload weapon, which is currently one of the two big metas for "endgame" stuff. i mean, i click mouse1 for a second, and then my melee damage is boosted by like 300%+ why would i NOT bring a rapid fire weapon everywhere? the question is not how you state it: "what benefit is there to forcing a rapid fire into every loadout?"

the question is "why ignore all the advantages of having 1 of your 2 guns be rapid fire?"

you also ask, "why limit the options at all?" the answer is that, for some people (like myself,) working with limits is fun. when restrictions are placed on me, i take joy in figuring out how to succeed despite the limitations.

that's why "sniper only" sortie missions dont bother me. they force me to think outside my comfort-zone box and come up with some solution that works with the materials i have. nullifiers are a part of that. they force me to take on corpus maps with different stuff than i'd use against infested, for example.

i mean, you want to talk unfair, how about immunity to the big meta damage type, and not even armor for my hildyrn to strip away for more shields. fighting infested as hildyrn is not fun. because the shields are her energy, disruptors and parasitic exumus units drain her shields. it's worse than limbo vs nullifiers. so i just use a different frame vs infested, or i just dont do an infested mission while i feel like playing hildyrn.

[lobstermadness]

Even a longer polearm weapon can get rid of bubbles before it does anything.

[Walkerk19]

引用自 lobstermadness：

Even a longer polearm weapon can get rid of bubbles before it does anything.

Pretty much this, sometimes I just melee bubble with claws until it shrank.