Has DE made a comment on why the kuva hek cannot use scattered justice ?

[Goosetave]

I feel really disappointed when i found that out. The kuva hek is decently powerful but it's really clunky and only offers single target damage. As it stands there is no reason at all to use it over the tenet plasmor.

[Monarch]

引用自 Goosetave：

I don't know what to think of this weapon anymore. With a full crit build with hunter munitions, it can kill a steel path lancer with a single shot if you include the subsequent slash proc (most of the dmg comes form the slash proc). That's the best it can do and it comes at the price of punch through, reload AND fire rate. The corinth prime does that with a dramatically bigger magazine and with a secondary fire that can do status.
It's a single target shotgun, which is already inherently bad and even in this bad niche it manages to be lackluster.
I don't know about the rest of the community, but i think that testing a gun against lvl 100-180 enemies in the simulacrum and making a judgement based only on that is no longer enough in this current era of warframe. Steel path needs to be taken into account.

I agree that testing in Simulacrum needs an update, as Steel Path provides enemy bonuses that Simulacrum could not account for.

But it is the ONLY controlled environment for testing, and could reproduce results in a very consistent manner.

While true, even level 185 enemies in Simulacrum would be weaker than their counter parts in Steel Path. It still doesn't take away the fact that the TTK for Kuva Hek is vastly superior than the regular Hek. (If you're not outperforming in a lower difficulty settings, you won't be out performing in a higher difficulty setting) And if you're a huge fan of DoT, Saryn would do a better job than waiting for Slash proc to win.

But ultimately, Hek series just isn't strong enough to be up on par when compared to the arsenal of weapons we have access to. That's kinda why DE made Scattered Justice in the first place, it's a bandaid buff for a weapon that's been outclassed. Kuva Hek out classes Hek, but it's still weak compared to everything else we have.

[Goosetave]

引用自 P.P.Cutter ♥：

引用自 Goosetave：

I don't know what to think of this weapon anymore. With a full crit build with hunter munitions, it can kill a steel path lancer with a single shot if you include the subsequent slash proc (most of the dmg comes form the slash proc). That's the best it can do and it comes at the price of punch through, reload AND fire rate. The corinth prime does that with a dramatically bigger magazine and with a secondary fire that can do status.
It's a single target shotgun, which is already inherently bad and even in this bad niche it manages to be lackluster.
I don't know about the rest of the community, but i think that testing a gun against lvl 100-180 enemies in the simulacrum and making a judgement based only on that is no longer enough in this current era of warframe. Steel path needs to be taken into account.

I agree that testing in Simulacrum needs an update, as Steel Path provides enemy bonuses that Simulacrum could not account for.

But it is the ONLY controlled environment for testing, and could reproduce results in a very consistent manner.

While true, even level 185 enemies in Simulacrum would be weaker than their counter parts in Steel Path. It still doesn't take away the fact that the TTK for Kuva Hek is vastly superior than the regular Hek.

But ultimately, Hek series just isn't strong enough to be up on par when compared to the arsenal of weapons we have access to. That's kinda why DE made Scattered Justice in the first place, it's a bandaid buff for a weapon that's been outclassed. Kuva Hek out classes Hek, but it's still weak compared to everything else we have.

I agree with pretty much all of what you said there, still i think that as a new pursuit weapon, the kuva hek should be allowed to shine with the rest of the top dogs. I don't find it tolerable that new weapons, especially not lich/sister weapons, are to be treated as MR fodder. It's not an acceptable design decision.

[Pakaku]

引用自 Goosetave：

引用自 P.P.Cutter ♥：

I agree that testing in Simulacrum needs an update, as Steel Path provides enemy bonuses that Simulacrum could not account for.

But it is the ONLY controlled environment for testing, and could reproduce results in a very consistent manner.

While true, even level 185 enemies in Simulacrum would be weaker than their counter parts in Steel Path. It still doesn't take away the fact that the TTK for Kuva Hek is vastly superior than the regular Hek.

But ultimately, Hek series just isn't strong enough to be up on par when compared to the arsenal of weapons we have access to. That's kinda why DE made Scattered Justice in the first place, it's a bandaid buff for a weapon that's been outclassed. Kuva Hek out classes Hek, but it's still weak compared to everything else we have.

I agree with pretty much all of what you said there, still i think that as a new pursuit weapon, the kuva hek should be allowed to shine with the rest of the top dogs. I don't find it tolerable that new weapons, especially not lich/sister weapons, are to be treated as MR fodder. It's not an acceptable design decision.

With these weapons, I think it makes more sense to think of them as top-of-the-line variants. It's technically the best Hek. Not all Kuva or Tenet weapons are that impressive, like the Karak, the Kraken, or the Tetra, but they have acceptable stat buffs and sometimes interesting gimmicks for those who still want to use them. The Kuva Hek is an acceptable upgrade for the crit chance and some extra status chance, so even though it's not mindblowing, it's still "fine".

[Monarch]

引用自 Goosetave：

I agree with pretty much all of what you said there, still i think that as a new pursuit weapon, the kuva hek should be allowed to shine with the rest of the top dogs. I don't find it tolerable that new weapons, especially not lich/sister weapons, are to be treated as MR fodder. It's not an acceptable design decision.

I'd have nothing to lose by having an even stronger Kuva Hek.

I think the way to fix Kuva Hek would simply just be giving it an even shorter reload time.
As I noticed, with the new addition of Kuva/Tenet weapons, for most of them, their alt attack is where it shines.

IE. Tenet Tetra feels like a piece of crap compared to the original Tetra, but by using the Alt function, it functions as a wonderful grenade launcher.

Treat / Use Kuva Hek like a single shot Tigris, give it a slight buff in either CHD or Base damage, bring reload time in line with Sancti Tigris. And you've got yourself a freight train that's capable of mowing down a line of enemies in a single trigger pull.
+ Allow Alt fire to empty remaining ammunition, rather than force reload for a full mag.

Last but not least, don't forget about Arbitration mods and Steel Path Arcanes.

引用自 Pakaku：

With these weapons, I think it makes more sense to think of them as top-of-the-line in their field at the minimum. Not all Kuva or Tenet weapons are that impressive, like the Karark, the Kraken, or the Tetra, but they have acceptable stat buffs and sometimes interesting gimmicks for those who still want to use them. The Kuva Hek is an acceptable upgrade for the crit chance and some extra status chance, so even though it's not mindblowing, it's still "fine".

From the looks of choices for Kuva / Tenet weapons.
It really just seems DE wants to offer the ability to use some of these "classic" weapons in a competitive late game settings. It wouldn't make sense to just buff older classics, and giving it another mod for buffs will just spew ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ like the situation Kuva Hek's in.

Not all of them are supposed to be the end all be all line of weapons, some of them are just an option / reason for veteran players to use some of the older weapons while not having to suffer in performance.

[Pakaku]

引用自 P.P.Cutter ♥：

引用自 Pakaku：

With these weapons, I think it makes more sense to think of them as top-of-the-line in their field at the minimum. Not all Kuva or Tenet weapons are that impressive, like the Karark, the Kraken, or the Tetra, but they have acceptable stat buffs and sometimes interesting gimmicks for those who still want to use them. The Kuva Hek is an acceptable upgrade for the crit chance and some extra status chance, so even though it's not mindblowing, it's still "fine".

From the looks of choices for Kuva / Tenet weapons.
It really just seems DE wants to offer the ability to use some of these "classic" weapons in a competitive late game settings. It wouldn't make sense to just buff older classics, and giving it another mod for buffs will just spew ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ like the situation Kuva Hek's in.

Not all of them are supposed to be the end all be all line of weapons, some of them are just an option / reason for veteran players to use some of the older weapons while not having to suffer in performance.

It's more or less the Prime treatment on weapons that aren't of Orokin origin, and even some Primes are nothing special. Even the process of earning murmurs for the weapon is comparable to doing void fissures to collect traces, just with an added boss fight.

[Trickster]

引用自 Makoto Naegi：

One of the devs did make a statement about this in the official bug reporting forum. Here's a copy-paste of the statement:

"It was made incompatible on purpose. Our napkin math indicated that between the better crit stats and innate elemental bonus, the Kuva Hek without the augment is stronger than the basic Hek is with the augment. We might be willing to reconsider in the future if suitably scientific appeals are made, but for now you may consider this "as intended"."

so basically don't ever expect them to allow ya to use it on the kuva heck

[Goosetave]

Looking back on it, while i still stand with what i said about wanting scattered justice on the kuva hek, i realize it's not a given for a kuva/tenet weapon to be meta defining. I just so badly want the hek to be good.

[Grr. [SG CMD] Majah Lazah]

引用自 Goosetave：

I feel really disappointed when i found that out. The kuva hek is decently powerful but it's really clunky and only offers single target damage. As it stands there is no reason at all to use it over the tenet plasmor.

500% MS.

[Spartykins]

the zarr seemed to do better in barrage mode either way so I don't see an issue with having it

[Xnmas様]

"Scattered Justice" Augment Mod is now compatible with the Kuva Hek. As of update 35.6

[Goosetave]

引用自 Xnmas様：

"Scattered Justice" Augment Mod is now compatible with the Kuva Hek. As of update 35.6

My brother in christ it's been 3 years. I don't even play Warframe anymore lmao.
But hey i'll go to sleep feeling vindicated at least.
Cheers man !