roar > vex armor?

[Spags]

I love chroma. i love gram prime. i love large numbers in red.

But forgetting eidolons, is rhino's roar strictly better for damage than chroma's fury at same ability str? Or has this been changed?

[No_Quarter]

They use different math and they buff different things.

Chroma's buff acts same way as Serration buffing base stats while Roar acts like faction damage and buffs total damage.

Roar buffs damage of all abilities while Chroma's Vex does very few.

So it is hard to say which one is strictly better cause they do not apply to the same build, for Chroma you take out Serration so it's a free slot. Chroma will push your weapons further but in general your weapons are op to begin with so Roar will be more than enough.

And Roar is much easier to use while Chroma is just a hassle

Rhino seems to have a weird math for Roar cause for arbi with +300% ability strength buff he does not go as high as it should with direct scaling on ability strength. He seems to be stuck at 300-something %, not sure if it's a cap or something.

Cause Nezha's buff buffs total damage too but he goes beyond 500% on arbi +300%. So it's weird.

Chroma seems to scale more directly with ability strength as shown in arbi +30% modifier so he is probably a winner to your question.
I'd still use Rhino unless I really really have to go with Chroma, and even then I'd question if I can go with Mirage first as she buffs total damage the same way Rhino does but instead of +300% you get +600%.

Ultimately meta is Chroma for weapons, Roar for abilities and Mirage for AOE eye cancer with brightest colors you can find.

Edit:

Tho if you get a riven with some stupid levels of +damage like 250%+ then Roar should win over Vex. Using Arcanes with Rhino can get you close to that anyway, while with Chroma it's harder to use those arcanes as you need Grace and Energize in general to maintain that Blind Rage.

Arcane Rage and Fury are like +180% which should be close enough because ease of use. Arcane Precision on Rhino definitely outclasses Vex build for secondary weapon cause it's +300%.

But again, bottom like is - are we talking about bazilion or bazilion and a half damage?

[Spags]

Neither. 2 bazillion. I can figure out the grey areas between how much damage i want how quickly as I go, and the info here is really helpful. But really, what I do want to know is which of roar or vex armor can achieve the largest, most unnecessary number possible with gram prime?

also, Nezha buffs damage?

[Shazbot!]

^TL:DR roar is multiplicative, while vex is additive to base damage multiplier(serration,heavy caliber, etc.)

Originally posted by No_Quarter:

Rhino seems to have a weird math for Roar cause for arbi with +300% ability strength buff he does not go as high as it should with direct scaling on ability strength.

That's called diminishing returns
100 dmg with 200 power str +100% damage = 200 damage, 2x as much damage as base
100 dmg with 400 power str +200% damage = 300 damage, but only 1.5x as much as 200 power str
100 dmg with 800 power str +400% damage = 500 damage, 8 times the power str, 5 times the damage
In other words, you need exponentially more power str to achieve linear growth in damage.
No idea if this makes sense to people trying to read this though.
That's why people stack number of damage multipliers, not multipliers itself:
100 damage * 2.65 from serration * 2.0 primed chamber * 2.0 headshot * 4.0 crit * 2.6 from both 90 elemental mods * 1.75 elemental weakness * 2.0 from roar * 2.0 combo multiplier = 77168 damage, hypothetically of course.
I'm 100% missing something, but you get the idea.

[Spags]

Originally posted by Shazbot!:

^TL:DR roar is multiplicative, while vex is additive to base damage multiplier(serration,heavy caliber, etc.)

Originally posted by No_Quarter:

Rhino seems to have a weird math for Roar cause for arbi with +300% ability strength buff he does not go as high as it should with direct scaling on ability strength.

That's called diminishing returns
100 dmg with 200 power str +100% damage = 200 damage, 2x as much damage as base
100 dmg with 400 power str +200% damage = 300 damage, but only 1.5x as much as 200 power str
100 dmg with 800 power str +400% damage = 500 damage, 8 times the power str, 5 times the damage
In other words, you need exponentially more power str to achieve linear growth in damage.
No idea if this makes sense to people trying to read this though.
That's why people stack number of damage multipliers, not multipliers itself:
100 damage * 2.65 from serration * 2.0 primed chamber * 2.0 headshot * 4.0 crit * 2.6 from both 90 elemental mods * 1.75 elemental weakness * 2.0 from roar * 2.0 combo multiplier = 77168 damage, hypothetically of course.
I'm 100% missing something, but you get the idea.

ok but can you answer the question please?

[Shazbot!]

Originally posted by Spaghetti Touches Me:

ok but can you answer the question please?

If you don't have serration equipped chroma is better, otherwise no. Volt is better than both of them though.

[Spags]

Originally posted by Shazbot!:

Originally posted by Spaghetti Touches Me:

ok but can you answer the question please?

If you don't have serration equipped chroma is better, otherwise no. Volt is better than both of them though.

still didn't answer the question

Originally posted by Spaghetti Touches Me:

But really, what I do want to know is which of roar or vex armor can achieve the largest, most unnecessary number possible with gram prime?

also, Nezha buffs damage?

[Shazbot!]

Originally posted by Spaghetti Touches Me:

But really, what I do want to know is which of roar or vex armor can achieve the largest, most unnecessary number possible with gram prime?

That did answer your question btw, you just had to think a little bit. Roar with CO, vex wtithout PPP and CO if you can substitute base damage mods with something else.

Originally posted by Spaghetti Touches Me:

also, Nezha buffs damage?

iirc no

[No_Quarter]

Originally posted by Spaghetti Touches Me:

also, Nezha buffs damage?

is it that hard to read abilities and their descriptions? Chakram "increases vulnerability" which effectively is a damage buff to all incoming damage and it's multiplicative. Also causes 100% heat proc so that's 50% of the armor down too.

Originally posted by Spaghetti Touches Me:

But really, what I do want to know is which of roar or vex armor can achieve the largest, most unnecessary number possible with gram prime?

Banshee has highest buff if you wanna do that. 30-something times (36 I think) the damage with +300% arbi buff and max str with it. Cause weakspots can overlap making the buff 36x36 and it's multiplicative meaning it buffs your total damage so it's nuts.
If you get Chroma with arbi buff and Rhino with arbi buff and stack them they cannot even get close to Banshee's potential.

Note that 36x the damage is actually 3600% total damage if presented with numbers we see on Mirage for example. Do the square your self for when they overlap.

As for Chroma or Rhino, depends on your build and your riven. Either can win under certain circumstances. CO or high damage riven and/or Arcane Fury plus Roar is pretty close to what Vex does when you take out your damage mod from your melee and slap more CD or such.

[Spags]

Originally posted by No_Quarter:

Originally posted by Spaghetti Touches Me:

also, Nezha buffs damage?

is it that hard to read abilities and their descriptions? Chakram "increases vulnerability" which effectively is a damage buff to all incoming damage and it's multiplicative. Also causes 100% heat proc so that's 50% of the armor down too.

that is uhh. very far from this thread's topic of "buffing damage."

[No_Quarter]

Originally posted by Spaghetti Touches Me:

Originally posted by No_Quarter:

is it that hard to read abilities and their descriptions? Chakram "increases vulnerability" which effectively is a damage buff to all incoming damage and it's multiplicative. Also causes 100% heat proc so that's 50% of the armor down too.

that is uhh. very far from this thread's topic of "buffing damage."

You wanted a big number red crit, Nezha will give you higher number red crit than Rhino if you exclude Eidolons as Nezha's Chakram cannot effect them.

Difference being that you need to hit an enemy with chakram to get that damage increase.

It's really all the same ♥♥♥♥, DE just uses a tad different ways to make it happen so it seems there are more differences between warframes.
Banshee's 10x way of describing a buff, Vex additive 900%, Rhino's multiplicative 200%, Nezha's multiplicative vulnerability of 300%. I do not see actual difference between Nezha and Banshee when it comes to buff, sure Banshee's buff is easier to execute but it all increases damage you do and it all ends up in damage equation in same two places - either additive or multiplicative. Nezha's 300% equals to Rhino's +200%, simple math trick of 1+X, they could have just used unified way of describing it but they chose a bit more confusion instead.

Or I guess there are elemental buffs from some warframes, that's a third place in the equation where buffs are placed when calculating damage.

So it is not about how are they described in the ability screen really as that changes just so it would look unique and would make more sense with ability's nature.

Your question was - who gives bigger number so "all ever so different ways" of getting that big number are on the table. And your answer is Banshee as her buff is so strong that any two other buffers cannot reach it even combined together.

Roar or Vex? Depends on your riven and weapon of choice as well as it's build. Play whichever one you prefer and feel better playing. I personally prefer to see Rhino on my team cause even with Narrow Minded he is more likely to buff me than Chroma would as Chroma's buff comes and goes. Also Rhino's buff is far more useful to the team as it stacks better with actual builds that by default include +damage mod and it also buffs all ability damage while with Vex it's a bit more selfish story.

[Spags]

I see. So hypothetically, in a solo survival situation with gram prime blood rush build, would a rhino or chroma be better for just raw damage, survivability out of the question, assuming both roar and vex can be kept up at max all the time, and same ability strength on rhino and chroma, and the gram too obviously.

[Tenxra]

finally bruhtonium!

[Shazbot!]

Originally posted by Spaghetti Touches Me:

I see. So hypothetically, in a solo survival situation with gram prime blood rush build, would a rhino or chroma be better for just raw damage, survivability out of the question, assuming both roar and vex can be kept up at max all the time, and same ability strength on rhino and chroma, and the gram too obviously.

You seem to have troubles with understanding us, try watching some youtube videos like INSANE DAMAGE GRAM PRIME BUILD 2018

[Shard of Manus]

This is honestly horrible to read. OP gets repeated in depth answers that cover the question and more, and every response is "that doesn't answer the question, give me an answer".

OP, if you still live, stop being insufferably ignorant and useless and actually read what people have said - the answers are right there. If you want someone to say "Rhino is better" or "Chroma is better" then you're not looking for an actual answer that solves your problem.

No_Quarter has explained exactly the answer to your question and why, so pay attention. There is no definite better choice between the two, it depends on a series of variables. Put some damn effort in.

[Shazbot!]

btw

Originally posted by Spaghetti Touches Me:

i love gram prime.

Originally posted by Spaghetti Touches Me:

i love large numbers in red.

you're like a little baby, watch this
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2003276981