Gambling \ Loot Boxes

[Light]

https://youtu.be/5At-GvMJ1oU

Opinions on Warframe.

============================== EDIT 1 ==============================

Außenseiter の投稿を引用：

Rivens are lootboxes, that you cash out for after they've been rolled into "win" state.
Skip to 17:33 for explanation.
https://youtu.be/8SlKS9RtIJk?t=1053

He made his point. Rivens in it's actual state are unbalanced and "broken", therefore, making it the meta of the game, therefore, encouraging the grinding for them, therefore, because Rivens are really rare and hard to roll, making Brozime, ConanTheLibrarian and No_Quarter's argument true.

The arguments:

ConanTheLibrarian の投稿を引用：

Sceles の投稿を引用：

Warframe doesn't do lootboxes.

DE implemented loot boxes in the form of rivens and they monetize it by artificially forced sparsity meaning chances of you getting good riven with high rolls are near zero than people are forced to pay hundreds of euros for top rivens and guess who is selling the in game currency.

Riven system is a casino gulag and it needs to be reworked in to something that does not resemble slot machine. Something like crafting with no RNG every stat could have a kuva price and than separate option to upgrade the numbers till they reach maximum possible values.

No_Quarter の投稿を引用：

Kollus の投稿を引用：

Dude gambling requires hazard. You bet money on something whose outcome it's uncertain.
You know every single stat of the riven you're buying, how is that gamble.

Because on that roll it depends how much money will you get on the market. Different steps, same outcome of people wasting time and money into the system.

Not a direct slot machine but with 40 000 possible rolls it's a lucrative thing for people who are prone to gambling. And again, it actually has a monetary value, you can sell it for real money even if DE forbids that.

So it's like gambling without investing money for chance of getting money. Less risk for loss on direct investment but addiction works the same exact way and people get to open their wallets when RNG is against them and it sure as ♥♥♥♥ is when chance to get riven you want is 1/500 or so and there are 40 000 possible rolls and less than 20 are good.

Do you know how rare that is? in my 6k hours I only got that twice and I've been invested in rivens. Mathematically you are better off buying what you want cause rolling it is not happening.
And DE made that math, it did not create it self. Ofc I bought very good rivens but only twice I got a riven I want and I rolled a roll I want without paying.

You do not pay for it directly but it's a loophole that extracts a lot of money from addiction and just because it does not look like a casino it does not mean it does not make money the same way casino does - but with extra steps. You roll a riven - you make me pay real money to DE so I could buy it off from you. Or I just flat out buy your account, DE is against that but they can't really prevent it unless I explicitly state that I did it.

It is not nice monetization method, it preys on addiction, hype, social effects such us "everyone is using it", seeing piles of offers WTB X RIVEN makes you want to buy one and get it, power creep every few months that ruins your previous purchase which is effectively an inflation which is a criminal act in real world - it's a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ loophole DE got away with and there are people who defend it for some reason.

============================== EDIT 2 ==============================

No_Quarter の投稿を引用：

Kollus の投稿を引用：

That applies to anything, since you can trade anything: mods, weapons, warframes. The big deal about rivens is that they are the shiny thingy, but the process is identical to selling a mod.
You invest money farming Argon Scope for the chance of making profit out of it.
The only solution to your point is to remove trade.

But not, because inflation. You know what inflation is? DE does not do it for vast majority of mods but for rivens it's ever lasting thing.

It's a big thing because in real world inflation is used to create scam networks like new dodgecoin scam and for actual criminal acts to devalue currency in order to pay off huge debts with box of matches. Now DE is not a state but ecosystem in it is a state on it's own and DE are the government. Inflating each purchase you make today so much that it costs less and less with each minute and after few months it's basically a transmutation trash. At least when it comes to rivens. At the same time inflating price of new rivens, not just because not many people have them but with power creep by making new weapons just flat out better than everything in the game which leads to your point - making rivens into a shiny thing.

If it was a country it would be Venezuela levels of inflation.

What this law tends to address is value you invest in games and DE plays around with devaluing that which is shady right now but has very high chance to be illegal in near future.

Manipulation of inflation... we know this really well here in Brazil. It's true.

I don't know for sure if DE is doing this on purpose, but this topic need to be adressed by them to the community. Maybe not now though, because there's a lot of things happening inside the company right now, as we all have seen.

We're not condemning DE, just questioning. We wish the best for the people who work there and hope everything goes well.

============================== EDIT 3 ==============================

LordOfTheDread の投稿を引用：

Keys の投稿を引用：

We are not talking about the topic of: "Spending money in games because of RNG".
We are talking about: "How addicted people are lured by RNG mechanics to spend even more money than they would/should in games".

They're "close". But not the same.

I, personally, am not agaisn't RNG in games (I give you a good turn based strategy game filled with RNG, which is good, and completely free: Battle for Wesnoth).

Also, please watch the videos and think in the arguments.

Sorry this makes no sense even after watching the videos in a game where you can just spend time to get plat and exchange for the riven of your choice at the very least or just play the game and get lucky to get a good riven (like me getting a Lenz one a few days back and getting a good roll after reolling it 4-5 times).

This is a totally different beast than lootboxes and if you fail to see it then you should definitely stop playing RNG based games because that is what is at play here: RNG not lootboxes.

What next? Tabletop RPG being close to loot boxes because dice rolls? Just pray this is not how government wanting to regulate lootboxes will look at the matter or a large portion of good RNG based games (Warframe, PoE, Diablo ect) will get attacked for the exact same wrong reasons as this topic.

But I just said in the quote you quoted that the problem is not RNG mate.

The actual problem is how they might be using RNG mechanics to induce people's gambling tendencies, therefore, making them spend real money in an inflated market, therefore, creating the need on people with addiction to spend even more money, because RNG in this game (non-payable ways to acquire itens you want) is terrible.

By the way, RNG in Warframe is one of the worst in online games I've seen. Everyone here can verify that.

Hagrid Glodson の投稿を引用：

Nine Iota の投稿を引用：

I never felt the need to buy a riven that bad that i would spend real money on it.

The thing is, not everyone will feel that way. Gambling isn't a problem for people who have it under control, it's a problem for addicts - and it's really easy to get addicted.

That's the point.

============================== EDIT 4 ==============================

Shazbot! の投稿を引用：

Keys の投稿を引用：

You may be right. People just don't care about it, that's why games are like this today.

https://old.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/gvbz6h/the_crippling_issues_with_the_riven_system_melee/
Yeah check this out.

Thanks for sharing.

============================== EDIT 5 ==============================

No_Quarter の投稿を引用：

agentkido の投稿を引用：

has anyone actually read the agreement when u sign up for the game tho to see if you agree to the terms or not? cause i bet there would be a clause in there about it. plus im pretty sure this game is rated M or at least 13 with parents approval, that would basically allow for gambling in the most part.

allows gambling - yes.

But what gambling? Do you know how gambling laws work in real life? Because in games nothing is illegal while in real life A LOT of things are illegal when it comes to offering people option to gamble and there are very strict rules on doing it.

When compared to those laws we can say couple of things:
- DE does not state that there is gambling in the game, buying Veiled Rivens could not be closer to gambling. That is illegal and a half.
- Artificial inflation - for those few who get lucky after purchasing tons of veiled rivens and getting what they want value is not secure, it will actually decay naturally. However, DE reduces the value too by shifting meta which is equal to pumping a value for a scam, like dodgecoin scam that runs on tiktok or wherever right now.
That is a scam.

Together it creates FOMO or fear or missing out which especially preys on people prone to addictions. You have to get into it right now to monetize it in order to "profit", if you are late then you fail. Which "encourages" more veiled riven purchases. All that is well documented on warframe.market , veiled rifle rivens skyrocketed when Bramma came out.

So at this very point it is legal what DE is doing. But I doubt for long. Even relics can fall under it as you can trade for them so that translates to monetary value just like chips in casinos. Just cashing out in game values is a bit more complicated thing but pretty possible.

============================== EDIT 6 ==============================

Keys の投稿を引用：

Shazbot! の投稿を引用：

I think OP already made up his mind when he made this thread, he's not here to debate, but to confirm/validate his views through other people.

That's a good accusation and I accept it. People can judge it. Nobody is completely unbiased in his/her point of view.

Still, no, I've never seen Warframe as having Loot Boxes or Microtransactions, because, well, it's kinda obvious, Warframe doesn't have Loot Boxes, neither Microtransaction. At least, not in it's original format.

That's why, after watching Yong Yea's video, I recalled Warframe RNG mechanics through Relics to be precise. Because the grind in this game is horribly bizarre. (That's another topic, still, it follows the same line of thinking.).

The end of my understading through this line of reasoning end up being that Warframe doesn't have Loot Boxes, neither Microtransactions, BUT, the mechanics that are in the game and are a huge part of the gameplay, have an higher chance of hitting Gambling Addicts temptations.

Nope, of course not the way EA did with the boy that made the interview in Yong Yea's video.

But if a person that deals with addiction in gambling, finds himself, for exemple, rolling a Riven, or opening a Relic, numerous things in game facilitate the player to spend money as an easier way of getting the result he/she wants.

That being said, your accusation is valid, but it's not true at all.

Mostly through No_Quarter, Brozime and ConanTheLibrarian's arguments I got convinced that Rivens might have monetary value, even though No_Quarter's arguments were more focused in Law procedures "outside" of the game affecting playerbase "inside" the game or vise versa.

They're not Loot Boxes, neither Microtransactions, but act as such in practice, therefore, creating the possibility of a person with any addictive disorder to be harmed by it.

I can't be more clear about it, it does make sense, and, if DE is making this in purpose, this is really imoral in my humble opinion. (Im NOT saying they are in fact doing so).

============================== EDIT 7 ==============================

Keys の投稿を引用：

LordOfTheDread の投稿を引用：

It still does not make sense, since you can get everyting you need on the trade market you don't need to partake on the "gambling" mechanic.

Anything that comes from relics is availble to purchase for platinum directly, every weapon riven is available on the market as well you don't need to "gamble", just buy what you need.

It can easily be done by selling the things you don't need making it a trade from something you don't need for something you need, or by buying platinum straight from DE, how is that gambling? In what world?

Same goes for rerolling rivens, you can't purchase kuva, the only way to get it is by playing the game, a gambling addict will have a way better fix for his addiction by playing a game that allows him to roll the dice directly without having to grind missions.

The riven system and relic system, while far from perfect, are just a RNG systems, nothing else and yes the goal is to keep you playing of course but that is not a bad thing, at least not any worse than hoping to get a sepcific drop in any looter or arpg.

How hard is to understand that to healthy people this won't be a problem mate?

You can choose to not use the "gambling mechanics", but if you are addicted to a type of "mechanic", you won't have the chance of "choosing" at all.

It's a struggle, it's hard to decide NOT TO when you have a disease/mental illness like addiction to gambling.

When you have companies ABUSING that disease/mental illness of people for money (or to profit more than normal), you got a big moral problem in front of you. (And in some places, with the law, like No_Quarter's said.)
But again, like I said before, everyone have it's own moral values. To some, this can be accepted, for me, it's not.

You just can't disagree that someone with a mental disease/disorder such as addiction to gambling can make this kind of decision easily. This is psichologically improbable.

[Light]

LordOfTheDread の投稿を引用：

I have to admit that this level of density is pretty damning.

Let me put a final nail on the coffin of this riven debate.

Let's take the game that popularized the lootboxes: Overwatch.

Go to the lootboxes page, buy 15 lootboxes, you wanted to buy 10 but there is a "special offer" for 15. Proceed to opening lootboxes.

Now worst case scenario in Warframe:

Go on website and purchase platinum, go on trade chat, spend an unknown amount of time to purchase 15 veiled rivens, spend 15 missions if you are not failing any to finish the riven challenge for each one, with some of them being pretty brutal and out of reach for the casual player.

If you think that these 2 examples are randomly the same then I don't even know what to say other then WTF is wrong with you?

I am done with this thread, nobody has a single example of anyone spending 1000 of dollars in Warframe because of gambling mechanics for a simple reason: it is not a thing in this game and gambling addicts have plenty of way better options to get their gambling fix including freakiin online casinos and sport betting websites that are not even age gated.

Read this with patience, please:

Keys の投稿を引用：

Shazbot! の投稿を引用：

I think OP already made up his mind when he made this thread, he's not here to debate, but to confirm/validate his views through other people.

That's a good accusation and I accept it. People can judge it. Nobody is completely unbiased in his/her point of view.

Still, no, I've never seen Warframe as having Loot Boxes or Microtransactions, because, well, it's kinda obvious, Warframe doesn't have Loot Boxes, neither Microtransaction. At least, not in it's original format.

That's why, after watching Yong Yea's video, I recalled Warframe RNG mechanics through Relics to be precise. Because the grind in this game is horribly bizarre. (That's another topic, still, it follows the same line of thinking.).

The end of my understading through this line of reasoning end up being that Warframe doesn't have Loot Boxes, neither Microtransactions, BUT, the mechanics that are in the game and are a huge part of the gameplay, have an higher chance of hitting Gambling Addicts temptations.

Nope, of course not the way EA did with the boy that made the interview in Yong Yea's video.

But if a person that deals with addiction in gambling, finds himself, for exemple, rolling a Riven, or opening a Relic, numerous things in game facilitate the player to spend money as an easier way of getting the result he/she wants.

That being said, your accusation is valid, but it's not true at all.

Mostly through No_Quarter, Brozime and ConanTheLibrarian's arguments I got convinced that Rivens might have monetary value, even though No_Quarter's arguments were more focused in Law procedures "outside" of the game affecting playerbase "inside" the game or vise versa.

They're not Loot Boxes, neither Microtransactions, but act as such in practice, therefore, creating the possibility of a person with any addictive disorder to be harmed by it.

I can't be more clear about it, it does make sense, and, if DE is making this in purpose, this is really imoral in my humble opinion. (Im NOT saying they are in fact doing so).

Please. Now this:

Keys の投稿を引用：

You can choose to not use the "gambling mechanics", but if you are addicted to a type of "mechanic", you won't have the chance of "choosing" at all.

It's a struggle, it's hard to decide NOT TO when you have a disease/mental illness like addiction to gambling.

When you have companies ABUSING that disease/mental illness of people for money (or to profit more than normal), you got a big moral problem in front of you. (And in some places, with the law, like No_Quarter's said.)
But again, like I said before, everyone have it's own moral values. To some, this can be accepted, for me, it's not.

You just can't disagree that someone with a mental disease/disorder such as addiction to gambling can make this kind of decision easily. This is psichologically improbable.

[LordOfTheBread]

Keys の投稿を引用：

LordOfTheDread の投稿を引用：

I have to admit that this level of density is pretty damning.

Let me put a final nail on the coffin of this riven debate.

Let's take the game that popularized the lootboxes: Overwatch.

Go to the lootboxes page, buy 15 lootboxes, you wanted to buy 10 but there is a "special offer" for 15. Proceed to opening lootboxes.

Now worst case scenario in Warframe:

Go on website and purchase platinum, go on trade chat, spend an unknown amount of time to purchase 15 veiled rivens, spend 15 missions if you are not failing any to finish the riven challenge for each one, with some of them being pretty brutal and out of reach for the casual player.

If you think that these 2 examples are randomly the same then I don't even know what to say other then WTF is wrong with you?

I am done with this thread, nobody has a single example of anyone spending 1000 of dollars in Warframe because of gambling mechanics for a simple reason: it is not a thing in this game and gambling addicts have plenty of way better options to get their gambling fix including freakiin online casinos and sport betting websites that are not even age gated.

Read this with patience, please:

Keys の投稿を引用：

That's a good accusation and I accept it. People can judge it. Nobody is completely unbiased in his/her point of view.

Still, no, I've never seen Warframe as having Loot Boxes or Microtransactions, because, well, it's kinda obvious, Warframe doesn't have Loot Boxes, neither Microtransaction. At least, not in it's original format.

That's why, after watching Yong Yea's video, I recalled Warframe RNG mechanics through Relics to be precise. Because the grind in this game is horribly bizarre. (That's another topic, still, it follows the same line of thinking.).

The end of my understading through this line of reasoning end up being that Warframe doesn't have Loot Boxes, neither Microtransactions, BUT, the mechanics that are in the game and are a huge part of the gameplay, have an higher chance of hitting Gambling Addicts temptations.

Nope, of course not the way EA did with the boy that made the interview in Yong Yea's video.

But if a person that deals with addiction in gambling, finds himself, for exemple, rolling a Riven, or opening a Relic, numerous things in game facilitate the player to spend money as an easier way of getting the result he/she wants.

That being said, your accusation is valid, but it's not true at all.

Mostly through No_Quarter, Brozime and ConanTheLibrarian's arguments I got convinced that Rivens might have monetary value, even though No_Quarter's arguments were more focused in Law procedures "outside" of the game affecting playerbase "inside" the game or vise versa.

They're not Loot Boxes, neither Microtransactions, but act as such in practice, therefore, creating the possibility of a person with any addictive disorder to be harmed by it.

I can't be more clear about it, it does make sense, and, if DE is making this in purpose, this is really imoral in my humble opinion. (Im NOT saying they are in fact doing so).

Please. Now this:

Keys の投稿を引用：

You can choose to not use the "gambling mechanics", but if you are addicted to a type of "mechanic", you won't have the chance of "choosing" at all.

It's a struggle, it's hard to decide NOT TO when you have a disease/mental illness like addiction to gambling.

When you have companies ABUSING that disease/mental illness of people for money (or to profit more than normal), you got a big moral problem in front of you. (And in some places, with the law, like No_Quarter's said.)
But again, like I said before, everyone have it's own moral values. To some, this can be accepted, for me, it's not.

You just can't disagree that someone with a mental disease/disorder such as addiction to gambling can make this kind of decision easily. This is psichologically improbable.

I did read everything, I despise lootboxes and I disagree with you let's end on this.

[Light]

It's ok. Thanks

[No_Quarter]

TheSkunkyMonk の投稿を引用：

Rivens are the very definition of gambling and can be very profitable since some sell for $1000+ on some of those selling sites.

Regardless of what they are though to make em fun again the riven really should be given for the weapon it is unlocked with. Ends all the trouble and god rolls will still be highly sought after.

That would likely solve most of it, except the part of DE's profits which would go down but it would ultimately push them to look for monetization in other places.

SO maybe we get something fair instead

Which would be nice, and think Riven "gate" could be certain level of mastery of the weapon, like do X forma before being able to unlock a riven for it or something. Provided DE puts in actual forma farm in the game, one that is not there for a week once a year.

[Light]

No_Quarter の投稿を引用：

TheSkunkyMonk の投稿を引用：

Rivens are the very definition of gambling and can be very profitable since some sell for $1000+ on some of those selling sites.

Regardless of what they are though to make em fun again the riven really should be given for the weapon it is unlocked with. Ends all the trouble and god rolls will still be highly sought after.

That would likely solve most of it, except the part of DE's profits which would go down but it would ultimately push them to look for monetization in other places.

SO maybe we get something fair instead

Which would be nice, and think Riven "gate" could be certain level of mastery of the weapon, like do X forma before being able to unlock a riven for it or something. Provided DE puts in actual forma farm in the game, one that is not there for a week once a year.

They also could provide a permanent level up system for mods, frames, weapons.
This meaning that would be possible to rank up mods forever based in an algorithm calculation that multiplies after each rank up. So many things would need to be changed in game for this to work that It would just be easier to make Warframe 2 though.

Talking about Rivens, the idea of buying a Riven with permanent status only to be "ranked up" depending on it's status power, like normal mods, would also solve the problem in the balance field I guess.

[SolarSabotage]

Keys の投稿を引用：

Uh... (*cringe*)

You can close the thread now. lol.

If you want it to get closed, I'd recommend changing the title of the thread so it has [Lock Please] or something along the lines of that at the beginning. Much better chance of a mod seeing it that way.

[No_Quarter]

Keys の投稿を引用：

No_Quarter の投稿を引用：

That would likely solve most of it, except the part of DE's profits which would go down but it would ultimately push them to look for monetization in other places.

SO maybe we get something fair instead

Which would be nice, and think Riven "gate" could be certain level of mastery of the weapon, like do X forma before being able to unlock a riven for it or something. Provided DE puts in actual forma farm in the game, one that is not there for a week once a year.

They also could provide a permanent level up system for mods, frames, weapons.
This meaning that would be possible to rank up mods forever based in an algorithm calculation that multiplies after each rank up. So many things would need to be changed in game for this to work that It would just be easier to make Warframe 2 though.

Talking about Rivens, the idea of buying a Riven with permanent status only to be "ranked up" depending on it's status power, like normal mods, would also solve the problem in the balance field I guess.

Sounds like an interesting concept, rivens having "fluid" stat percentages based off of a build you have, that is rank of mods you put in.

Could be good.

[Handoiron]

Riven's are not loot box gambling pure and simple.

You never pay money for a random result. If you choose to pay money to buy platinum to trade for a riven you are paying to get a specific set thing, not a random chance at something.

No argument trying to go through a convoluted stream of ideas will ever change the facts. You never pay money in Warframe for a chance at something. You only pay money for guaranteed results.

You could just as easily claim it's a loot box gambling because you can't be certain that the cosmetic you paid money for will be liked by everyone therefore it's a "random" result for the money you spent. This idea is just as flawed as claiming rivens are lootboxes and real money "gambling"...

[No_Quarter]

Handoiron の投稿を引用：

You only pay money for guaranteed results. .

Buying Veiled rivens from Warframe.Market is paying for a random chance to get something with no certain outcome.

You pay real money for it and you got no idea what it is. And on top of that, chances are very high you will get crap

[Handoiron]

No_Quarter の投稿を引用：

Buying Veiled rivens from Warframe.Market is paying for a random chance to get something with no certain outcome.

You pay real money for it and you got no idea what it is. And on top of that, chances are very high you will get crap

No... paying money to buy platinum means you're getting exactly what you're paying for. Platinum.

Also, trading platinum for a veiled riven means you're getting exactly what you're trading platinum for. A veiled riven.

With a loot box, you're paying money directly to have a random, typically low, chance at getting something you actually want. That is gambling.

By your rationale, having a credit card is gambling because you can potentially use it to buy a lottery ticket or to go to a casino. Heck, even having a job would be "gambling" because you could use the money you earn there for actual gambling.

[LordOfTheBread]

Handoiron の投稿を引用：

No_Quarter の投稿を引用：

Buying Veiled rivens from Warframe.Market is paying for a random chance to get something with no certain outcome.

You pay real money for it and you got no idea what it is. And on top of that, chances are very high you will get crap

No... paying money to buy platinum means you're getting exactly what you're paying for. Platinum.

Also, trading platinum for a veiled riven means you're getting exactly what you're trading platinum for. A veiled riven.

With a loot box, you're paying money directly to have a random, typically low, chance at getting something you actually want. That is gambling.

By your rationale, having a credit card is gambling because you can potentially use it to buy a lottery ticket or to go to a casino. Heck, even having a job would be "gambling" because you could use the money you earn there for actual gambling.

+1

[Light]

LordOfTheDread の投稿を引用：

Handoiron の投稿を引用：

No... paying money to buy platinum means you're getting exactly what you're paying for. Platinum.

Also, trading platinum for a veiled riven means you're getting exactly what you're trading platinum for. A veiled riven.

With a loot box, you're paying money directly to have a random, typically low, chance at getting something you actually want. That is gambling.

By your rationale, having a credit card is gambling because you can potentially use it to buy a lottery ticket or to go to a casino. Heck, even having a job would be "gambling" because you could use the money you earn there for actual gambling.

+1

And it's exactly the reasoning behind it my mate. Credit cards are what are ruining people that have issues with this kind of addiction too. Did you watched the first video in the thread?

There are many more factors to this than what im saying here, but, please, if you may, read this:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/04/almost-half-of-america-now-carrying-credit-card-debt-and-more-of-it.html

And "another" point of view with more information:

https://www.valuepenguin.com/average-credit-card-debt

"As discussed above, average credit card debt in America has been rising over the last decade. However, despite this, the average percentage of people holding credit card debt has been gradually decreasing. This tells us that the while average credit card debt is increasing, it’s not due to a greater number of individuals spending. Instead, in recent years, more people have been more heavily indebted."

People are free to decide what they want with their money, not saying anything opposed to it.
But when you analyze those numbers, they say something to you about economical and psychological healthness of the society.
Of course those numbers are only from United States (by what I've seen, If im wrong, please correct me.), still, this is something to be considered in any country.

It looks like you guys still didn't got the point. A healthy person is not the problem. He can decide without problems. We're talking about one mental illness.

It's normal, acceptable and healthy for a boy to spend his family savings that would be used to pay his university in a game? This is not normal, neither is acceptable to see any company abusing this addiction to profit.

in の投稿を引用：

Why everyone is so fixated here that lootbox specifically needs to be directly paid to get or directly paid to open? De changed the scheme a bit and now you are just blind that it works more or less same way.

Exactly. In the end, with people that struggle with this specific addiction, it's the same.

Look at this:

https://youtu.be/RzmO3Pl3yrM?list=TLPQMTkwNzIwMjCbmTNalnOUtw

I, personally, can't agree with this as "acceptable" for a company to profit.

[Light]

in の投稿を引用：

Keys の投稿を引用：

Exactly. In the end, with people that struggle with this specific addiction, it's the same.

Well, i don't think that addiction is that important in a whole picture. Even 'healthy" person can spend lots of money on this, which still does not make things look better.

Agreed. Just pointed that out because is the focus of the first video in the thread.

[LordOfTheBread]

Keys の投稿を引用：

in の投稿を引用：

Well, i don't think that addiction is that important in a whole picture. Even 'healthy" person can spend lots of money on this, which still does not make things look better.

Agreed. Just pointed that out because is the focus of the first video in the thread.

The first video of the thread is about FIFA selling randomized player packs directly with stupidly low chance to get any good player.

The subject of this thread is rivens which need to be opened by doing a challenge which take time and skill in most cases, said rivens that are NOT SOLD by DE but obtained ingame.

FIFA card packs in Warframe would be like getting frame packs with a stupidly low chance of getting a Saryn prime (this is just an example any frame that is flavor of the month or highly thought afet actually would do).

As far as I know you get an equal chance of getting any weapon riven when you unveil it, this is totally different but you guys are way too stuck in your idea that anything random is gambling that I'm actually fooling myself talking some sense in this nonsensival thread.

You even acknowledged that credit cards are a problem, starting from there the sun is the limit really...

[Light]

LordOfTheDread の投稿を引用：

Keys の投稿を引用：

Agreed. Just pointed that out because is the focus of the first video in the thread.

The first video of the thread is about FIFA selling randomized player packs directly with stupidly low chance to get any good player.

The subject of this thread is rivens which need to be opened by doing a challenge which take time and skill in most cases, said rivens that are NOT SOLD by DE but obtained ingame.

FIFA card packs in Warframe would be like getting frame packs with a stupidly low chance of getting a Saryn prime (this is just an example any frame that is flavor of the month or highly thought afet actually would do).

As far as I know you get an equal chance of getting any weapon riven when you unveil it, this is totally different but you guys are way too stuck in your idea that anything random is gambling that I'm actually fooling myself talking some sense in this nonsensival thread.

You even acknowledged that credit cards are a problem, starting from there the sun is the limit really...

I knew someone would accuse me of saying credit cards are the problem. I should just have said I wasn't saying that before anyone said that. lmao...

No, I didn't said Credit Cards are the problem. But how people decide to use them. You know how to decide how to use it, you use it well, it's fine, you don't, you will ruin your life with it.

That's the subject of the thread - A boy with visible addiction to gambling problems uses his money (parents saved for him) in a game for a chance of getting what he wants.
"Opinions in Warframe" - Rivens, people said, do the same thing in practice, with good arguments to affirm that.

If someone with addiction finds himself testing Rivens and Relics mechanics, and not getting what he wants, he might be tempted to grind more to get what he wants, if he don't get it, there is a possibility of him willing to cast money to buy platinum to get what he wants easier, without the grind of it, therefore, if he still don't get what he wants, the cicle repeats itself, therefore, in practice, this is a mechanic that may harm people with this kind of addiction - that's the point of the discussion, I guess.