Failed missions shouldnt remove all your loot

[IIFriggII]

when failing a mission without dying it feels really crappy that all your already gathered loot is removed from you. i see no reason you are punished like this in such an unrealistic manner.

seriously what happened? i got the message "you failed" then threw a tandrum and threw everything from my inventory on the ground and teleported out or what?
it seems really stupid and honestly made me rage quit as i felt my time was not being respected.

was having great fun up to that point so it really sucks it is made in such a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ way :/

would suggest changing it so people keep everything gained up to the point of failure. at least on missions where you didnt die

[No_Quarter]

What is mission failure rate? Overall not over 1%

So maybe like, not fail the mission? Letting people keep the loot without completing objectives opens up doors to abuse.

Story-wise - you did not have a safe extraction from the mission hence you lost all your loot.

[IIFriggII]

Originally posted by No_Quarter:

What is mission failure rate? Overall not over 1%

So maybe like, not fail the mission? Letting people keep the loot without completing objectives opens up doors to abuse.

Story-wise - you did not have a safe extraction from the mission hence you lost all your loot.

how is it abusable ? people put in the time to get the items in the mission. losing everything is just disrespecting peoples time.

worse if what you say is true people dont generally fail which means this is a problem for returning or new players which honestly is ragequit worthy or at minimum deminishing the entertainment and joy of the game.

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story wise htf would you Lose the items already gathered? you used them to throw at the enemy or what?... no it doesnt add up and it is very annoying both lore wise and gameplay wise.

[No_Quarter]

Failing a mission in Warframe is disrespectful to a skill level required to beat anything.

You have to make a conscious effort to try to fail a mission.

[IIFriggII]

Originally posted by No_Quarter:

Failing a mission in Warframe is disrespectful to a skill level required to beat anything.

You have to make a conscious effort to try to fail a mission.

that is the most stupid think i've heard someone say all week... seriously you are either trolling or something else is wrong -_-

[lobstermadness]

it depends on how far you are into the game. Once you are MR 10 or so it is really difficult to outtright fail a mission. Sympathies to the OP because it is frustrating when it happens

[virtualperson]

Yeah there's a real penalty for failure, but many of the missions are somewhat built around this. Like the survival missions where the longer you stay the better loot you get... But you're taking a risk so there's a risk/reward that might be disrupted by your idea.

I am a newb at this game (MR5) and tend to probably be overly cautious. If you repeatedly fail a mission try finding a group that is playing it, often the groups are loaded with end-gamers trying to farm some specific item, and you can practically just dance around and still win. People don't seem to mind this as long as you're trying, though I notice sometimes people will drop me from a group (possibly noting my low damage levels).

[Slyke]

Both the penalty for failure and the chance that you'll fail are so small that it isn't even worth talking about. Maybe don't fail missions if you're so distraught by the meaningless penalty.

[Watermelons]

Originally posted by Tjaranis:

Originally posted by No_Quarter:

Failing a mission in Warframe is disrespectful to a skill level required to beat anything.

You have to make a conscious effort to try to fail a mission.

that is the most stupid think i've heard someone say all week... seriously you are either trolling or something else is wrong -_-

You may not agree with the sentiment, but he is right about the very low failure rate for all missions played by the whole game population. DE shows us those numbers often enough when they're wanting to justify the addition of things like Arbitrations and the upcoming hardmode.

The biggest population hurt by losing loot on failure are new players, which is a concern, but once they get past a certain hump with their modding and equipment, failure rates go way way down.

[IIFriggII]

Originally posted by Curst:

Both the penalty for failure and the chance that you'll fail are so small that it isn't even worth talking about. Maybe don't fail missions if you're so distraught by the meaningless penalty.

i am pretty sure a lot of people have straight up rage quitted because of it.

it isnt because the game doesnt require enough meta gaming already just to get a grib on wtf is going on and how to just get into it.
from there you are already so annoyed that this extra ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ is enough to make you not have fun.

i also dont see any positive of this "penalty" it isnt as if anyone likes to Fail anything and it is already frustrating enough when it happens so adding extra ♥♥♥♥ on top of it seems like a terrible design choice.
i really cant wrap my head around what the positives to this would be.

Originally posted by lobstermadness:

it depends on how far you are into the game. Once you are MR 10 or so it is really difficult to outtright fail a mission. Sympathies to the OP because it is frustrating when it happens

ty it is nice to see that there are some friendly players around, community is important and the "YOU JUST SUUUUUUUUUCK GO SUUuUCK IT " kind of attitude is not really pulling me into wanting to become part of this community or game when already frustrated over simple and small design mistakes.

Originally posted by virtualperson:

Yeah there's a real penalty for failure, but many of the missions are somewhat built around this. Like the survival missions where the longer you stay the better loot you get... But you're taking a risk so there's a risk/reward that might be disrupted by your idea.

I am a newb at this game (MR5) and tend to probably be overly cautious. If you repeatedly fail a mission try finding a group that is playing it, often the groups are loaded with end-gamers trying to farm some specific item, and you can practically just dance around and still win. People don't seem to mind this as long as you're trying, though I notice sometimes people will drop me from a group (possibly noting my low damage levels).

i personally really dont like the punishment for failure, as mentioned it is already a failure which is already punishing enough in itself, i dont need to be hit extra on top of that to "motivated" me to try and not fail, if anything the punishment makes me want to go "well ♥♥♥♥ this game too then, i got better things to do", which really isnt a smart design imho.

[NITRO]

Originally posted by Tjaranis:

when failing a mission without dying it feels really crappy that all your already gathered loot is removed from you. i see no reason you are punished like this in such an unrealistic manner.

seriously what happened? i got the message "you failed" then threw a tandrum and threw everything from my inventory on the ground and teleported out or what?
it seems really stupid and honestly made me rage quit as i felt my time was not being respected.

was having great fun up to that point so it really sucks it is made in such a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ way :/

would suggest changing it so people keep everything gained up to the point of failure. at least on missions where you didnt die

Honestly, if you are complaining this much about being punished for failure you probably don't play a lot of games. Just wait til you move out of your parents house, punishment for failure gets way worse.

[IIFriggII]

Originally posted by Something Something Watermelons:

Originally posted by Tjaranis:

that is the most stupid think i've heard someone say all week... seriously you are either trolling or something else is wrong -_-

You may not agree with the sentiment, but he is right about the very low failure rate for all missions played by the whole game population. DE shows us those numbers often enough when they're wanting to justify the addition of things like Arbitrations and the upcoming hardmode.

The biggest population hurt by losing loot on failure are new players, which is a concern, but once they get past a certain hump with their modding and equipment, failure rates go way way down.

here is just one of the many problems of this approach:
you can't add content that actually creates difficulty and failures, which in return will created a boring predictable gameplay and who think it is fun to never be able to fail? at that point you might as well just have hackmode on.

failures should be a positive learning experience which makes you Want to try again, makes you feel rewarded for the effort put into it and makes you feel, if not good then not annoyed when it happens.

the design of failure/death in games need carefull consideration because of many but also these mentioned issues.
and honestly the approach of just screwing you over hard is only 1 step before downgrading or destroying equipment on deaths, which honestly is amongst the most ♥♥♥♥♥♥ failure/punishment designs seen out there.
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when all that is said i really dont see the issue if it only impact 1% of the players wtf do others have an issue with letting that 1%, of mostly newbies, not feel annoyed/angry/etc. and have a better experience upon failure? why is this an issue if it only impact these few new players?...
it seems silly to punish these players specifically for no apparent reason...

[Slyke]

Originally posted by Tjaranis:

Originally posted by Curst:

Both the penalty for failure and the chance that you'll fail are so small that it isn't even worth talking about. Maybe don't fail missions if you're so distraught by the meaningless penalty.

i am pretty sure a lot of people have straight up rage quitted because of it.

it isnt because the game doesnt require enough meta gaming already just to get a grib on wtf is going on and how to just get into it.
from there you are already so annoyed that this extra ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ is enough to make you not have fun.

i also dont see any positive of this "penalty" it isnt as if anyone likes to Fail anything and it is already frustrating enough when it happens so adding extra ♥♥♥♥ on top of it seems like a terrible design choice.
i really cant wrap my head around what the positives to this would be.

Some stakes are needed for your actions and rewards to have any value at all. This game is already devoid of challenge, what would you achieve by trivializing things even more?

This is the kind of game where preparation is everything. If you've failed a mission it means you need to prepare better to finally clear it and feel good about it. Raging about it does nothing.

There are people who ragequit for any reason or no reason at all. No amount of pandering changes that, it's something they'll have to overcome for themselves. In many cases catering to them only makes it worse for them and everyone around.

Originally posted by Tjaranis:

...
i personally really dont like the punishment for failure, as mentioned it is already a failure which is already punishing enough in itself, ...

It isn't a failure if there are no consequences.

[IIFriggII]

Originally posted by NITRO:

Originally posted by Tjaranis:

when failing a mission without dying it feels really crappy that all your already gathered loot is removed from you. i see no reason you are punished like this in such an unrealistic manner.

seriously what happened? i got the message "you failed" then threw a tandrum and threw everything from my inventory on the ground and teleported out or what?
it seems really stupid and honestly made me rage quit as i felt my time was not being respected.

was having great fun up to that point so it really sucks it is made in such a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ way :/

would suggest changing it so people keep everything gained up to the point of failure. at least on missions where you didnt die

Honestly, if you are complaining this much about being punished for failure you probably don't play a lot of games. Just wait til you move out of your parents house, punishment for failure gets way worse.

could we stop the personalition and assumption bs?
i am a hardcore gamer who played for over 20years and every genre and most games out there.

my complaint properly comes from experiencing enough crappy designs to just be "done with the bs" and therefore it annoyes me more and more when i got to deal with crap like this for no apparent reason...

the design of failure without death is something i just have to deal with, but the extra punishment is frankly freaking retarded.

[Slyke]

Well, death in this game has no meaning anyway. For all purposes your character is virtually immortal and all-powerful. It makes sense that warframe's "death" is not directly connected to failing a mission or getting a reward.

[IIFriggII]

Originally posted by Curst:

Originally posted by Tjaranis:

i am pretty sure a lot of people have straight up rage quitted because of it.

it isnt because the game doesnt require enough meta gaming already just to get a grib on wtf is going on and how to just get into it.
from there you are already so annoyed that this extra ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ is enough to make you not have fun.

i also dont see any positive of this "penalty" it isnt as if anyone likes to Fail anything and it is already frustrating enough when it happens so adding extra ♥♥♥♥ on top of it seems like a terrible design choice.
i really cant wrap my head around what the positives to this would be.

Some stakes are needed for your actions and rewards to have any value at all. This game is already devoid of challenge, what would you achieve by trivializing things even more?

This is the kind of game where preparation is everything. If you've failed a mission it means you need to prepare better to finally clear it and feel good about it. Raging about it does nothing.

There are people who ragequit for any reason or no reason at all. No amount of pandering changes that, it's something they'll have to overcome for themselves. In many cases catering to them only makes it worse for them and everyone around.

this is false assumptions.
you do not trivialize it by removing punishment. if anything as mentioned you allow for harder content by allowing peoples failures to feel less provoking/annoying, allowing them to have fun when it goes wrong is essential to creating a good difficulty curve.

as you say yourself, boredom is the issue when you can't fail at all... but if you punish for failure you are hurting your game experience if it is not stupidly boring/easy as punishment will make people quit if they experience too much of it.
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(btw hte mission i lost was a data mission where the alarm went off, couldnt find a console and time ran out and i auto lost. first mission i've done since comming back... and it was great fun untill then and then it felt ♥♥♥♥ because all my time was wasted and i had little chance to do anything and felt like this was an unfairly made setup which then punish me harder after already screwing over all my great fun.)