Hostile and predatory riven traders

[CCMatt]

Edit: unfortunately this thread has failed. I am putting a lot of effort into trying to help new players, with missions and trading etc. But I can't do it alone, and the majority seems to agree that victim blaming is the solution. People accuse and criticize everything and everyone except the scammer. The perpetrators are successful and that washes away their guilt. It's a long tunnel of vicious and malicious people and I fear there is no light at the end, not even a glimmer.

Semlar was a pretty swell dude who was trying to remedy a problem that DE has yet to get around to doing. Sure botting is against the rules, but I'm not here to argue whether or not what he did was wrong. There is, however, something of a more pressing concern that can already be dealt with by DE with their implemented tools. Except, they haven't taken care of it yet, and in fact some evidence points to at least 1 moderator colluding with the notorious riven traders.

Now not every guy selling a riven in trade chat is hostile. There is quite the tidy sum of platinum to be made in dealing with rivens and everyone would like a little bit of extra plat. We all know that where there is money (plat) to be made, there are people who are willing to do anything to get ahead. This is where the infamous scammers come in. Every MMO has their share, but that doesn't make it right, especially when it can be prevented and dealt with posthaste. Fact of the matter is, there are players who prey upon other players, especially new and inexperienced ones... and nothing is being done about it.

With DE's plate full, as well as possibly some of their own game moderators in on it, they aren't going to be getting around to it anytime soon. So I gotta ask, what can we as players do to curb these hostile riven traders?

All I want is for warframe to be a better and more inviting place to new players. The game is already rough for noobs as it is, they don't need to be scared off by scams too.

for anyone who doesn't know who/what Semlar was: https://semlar.com/trade/

[MotherVicar]

引用自 Saint：

引用自 |ZCG| Zone Dymo：

Its a free market and people are free to set up a program to inform people of prices.
You are free to accept it or not.
Getting someone banned over you not liking something someone else is doing however is not part of that free market.

I would strongly recommend you to look deeper how trades work, especially IRL with real money.

I would strongly recommend you take your own advice tbh.

[✨Saint✨]

引用自 |ZCG| Zone Dymo：

引用自 Saint：

I would strongly recommend you to look deeper how trades work, especially IRL with real money.

I would strongly recommend you take your own advice tbh.

Obvious

[vid23]

引用自 CCMatt：

引用自 Roderick✪Legend：

this guy get it, listen to him:2018bestaward:

Some people are just plain dumb, or gullible or whatever. Doesn't make it right to scam them. You can't just blame the victim.

"its free market REEE its ok to scam people because muh freedom, its their fault"
all these people dont get that its not about people setting their price, its about people TELLING people how much their riven worth, and trying to silence everyone who tries to help new plaers and people who arent into trading to find the right price for their riven, and not be scammed easily, but blaming the victim just so much easier than growing a pair of balls and stop profiting of innocent people simply because its just too easy to lie to them, to manipulate them into believing that their riven is worthless while its not, because theres just no way to check if its true or not, since they actively trying to shut down everyone who tries to help people out

[MrBucket]

引用自 vid23：

引用自 CCMatt：

Some people are just plain dumb, or gullible or whatever. Doesn't make it right to scam them. You can't just blame the victim.

"its free market REEE its ok to scam people because muh freedom, its their fault"
all these people dont get that its not about people setting their price, its about people TELLING people how much their riven worth, and trying to silence everyone who tries to help new plaers and people who arent into trading to find the right price for their riven, and not be scammed easily, but blaming the victim just so much easier than growing a pair of balls and stop profiting of innocent people simply because its just too easy to lie to them, to manipulate them into believing that their riven is worthless while its not, because theres just no way to check if its true or not, since they actively trying to shut down everyone who tries to help people out

This.

[CazadorDeLobo]

引用自 vid23：

引用自 CCMatt：

Some people are just plain dumb, or gullible or whatever. Doesn't make it right to scam them. You can't just blame the victim.

"its free market REEE its ok to scam people because muh freedom, its their fault"
all these people dont get that its not about people setting their price, its about people TELLING people how much their riven worth, and trying to silence everyone who tries to help new plaers and people who arent into trading to find the right price for their riven, and not be scammed easily, but blaming the victim just so much easier than growing a pair of balls and stop profiting of innocent people simply because its just too easy to lie to them, to manipulate them into believing that their riven is worthless while its not, because theres just no way to check if its true or not, since they actively trying to shut down everyone who tries to help people out

You are representing the motive of the people who got the website shut down for them. Are you sure you want to do that?

[CCMatt]

引用自 vid23：

引用自 CCMatt：

Some people are just plain dumb, or gullible or whatever. Doesn't make it right to scam them. You can't just blame the victim.

"its free market REEE its ok to scam people because muh freedom, its their fault"
all these people dont get that its not about people setting their price, its about people TELLING people how much their riven worth, and trying to silence everyone who tries to help new plaers and people who arent into trading to find the right price for their riven, and not be scammed easily, but blaming the victim just so much easier than growing a pair of balls and stop profiting of innocent people simply because its just too easy to lie to them, to manipulate them into believing that their riven is worthless while its not, because theres just no way to check if its true or not, since they actively trying to shut down everyone who tries to help people out

thanks, I can't really put it as "directly" as you do.

[Anonn 20 16]

i still don't understand how can there be such a huge deal for the rivens. this is madness especialy because it's a pve game. this is what i follow in detail if i want to look for a riven

1) For what weapon is the riven for
2) Are the stats of the weapon good (like crit or status)
3) Are the stats of the riven good for the weapon it is for
4) Will you play with this weapon
5) Do you know the weapon, if you don't then you shouldn't bother with the riven
6) What is the riven worth to you ignoring what the prices are, if you think it's worth giving a lot of plat or not is up to your judgement

then if there is a riven i would like to resell or think it will be worth something in the future
1) Is it for a popular weapon
2) Disposition
3) Is it worth farming a lot of hours for kuva for it
4) If the profit would be good and you are willing to rng your way out of plat debt then give the hours required to roll a good stat. if not then move on or if you think it's gonna be worth something later then keep it till you need it

this may help more experienced players looking at the riven market. but this is a lot of info for newer players, i get it but they can always ask someone if push comes to shove. i have been contacted by random players about selling prices and i am always happy to help when i can. this whole situation may make it a bit harder for players who depended on it but the rest of the community is still here and ready to help. at least i am and i do when i'm asked by players and if i know i will always give an answer along with a few tips.

as for how this situation can get resolved? i don't know and honestly i don't really care that much since if someone wants to roleplay as online vader he should. what i find scammy tho is the fact that they banned him and banning someone is the only thing that crosses the line for me.

[Hexo Mia]

for anyone who is not aware of this drama meme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKEJgjLV0nY

Things escalated very fast, and yes, DE has to do something about this ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ against Semlar website, that's really scummy.

[MotherVicar]

I just want to say on the video.... yeah ok there is a problem, this faceless trader does not even make any sense... unbalance? we are comparing gameplay skill with the skill to trade? k then, cuz that is similar at all.
Not to mention getting people banned, I mean, no joke this person might be a psychopath or something.

But I will say this, if hte prices skyrocket, that means that there is apperently a market for it, there is no sense in charging 10k plat for a riven if nobody buys it.
So people are buying it, and well thats fine, tis their money, they can do what they want.

Take the latest Nvidia cards, their latest cards are hugely more expensive then previous generations, now i choose to not buy that, I feel the price is too high.
But others think the price is fine, and if enough people think that then well Nvidia will make their money and all is good.
Vote with your wallet.
Ill just wait, thats my personal choice.

If nobody would buy the cards, that would be bad business and Nvidia would have to lower the prices, same here, inflated prices is just how the market works thats all.

[CCMatt]

引用自 |ZCG| Zone Dymo：

I just want to say on the video.... yeah ok there is a problem, this faceless trader does not even make any sense... unbalance? we are comparing gameplay skill with the skill to trade? k then, cuz that is similar at all.

But I will say this, if hte prices skyrocket, that means that there is apperently a market for it, there is no sense in charging 10k plat for a riven if nobody buys it.
So people are buying it, and well thats fine, tis their money, they can do what they want.

Take the latest Nvidia cards, their latest cards are hugely more expensive then previous generations, now i choose to not buy that, I feel the price is too high.
But others think the price is fine, and if enough people think that then well Nvidia will make their money and all is good.
Vote with your wallet.
Ill just wait, thats my personal choice.

If nobody would buy the cards, that would be bad business and Nvidia would have to lower the prices, same here, inflated prices is just how the market works thats all.

It's not the same. Rivens are in a state of constant flux. No rivens are the same, and no one making the deals are the same. It's not a faceless corporation placing their products out for purchase. It's people preying on other people who don't have much experience (if any) to spend their cash/plat on stuff at 10x the normal price.

[MotherVicar]

引用自 CCMatt：

引用自 |ZCG| Zone Dymo：

I just want to say on the video.... yeah ok there is a problem, this faceless trader does not even make any sense... unbalance? we are comparing gameplay skill with the skill to trade? k then, cuz that is similar at all.

But I will say this, if hte prices skyrocket, that means that there is apperently a market for it, there is no sense in charging 10k plat for a riven if nobody buys it.
So people are buying it, and well thats fine, tis their money, they can do what they want.

Take the latest Nvidia cards, their latest cards are hugely more expensive then previous generations, now i choose to not buy that, I feel the price is too high.
But others think the price is fine, and if enough people think that then well Nvidia will make their money and all is good.
Vote with your wallet.
Ill just wait, thats my personal choice.

If nobody would buy the cards, that would be bad business and Nvidia would have to lower the prices, same here, inflated prices is just how the market works thats all.

It's not the same. Rivens are in a state of constant flux. No rivens are the same, and no one making the deals are the same. It's not a faceless corporation placing their products out for purchase. It's people preying on other people who don't have much experience (if any) to spend their cash/plat on stuff at 10x the normal price.

But those people clearly think that price is ok, they are willing to pay that.
Hell with your state of constant flux argument, who are we to say what a riven is actually worth, we have a saying "its what the crazy person is willing to give for it" and that applies here.

I feel paying 800 - 1000 dollars for a videocard is complete insanity, but another might feel its a perfectly fine price, heck, they will buy two of them.

I would never pay more then 50 plat for a riven if that, i dont really persue specific rivens, I just use what I get, its fun for me that way, deal with the cards you are dealt.

Another might really want that Rubico Prime riven and thinks 10k plat is a fine price for it, fine, maybe we both think that is insane but its not up to us to decide that, its their trade.

[CCMatt]

引用自 |ZCG| Zone Dymo：

引用自 CCMatt：

It's not the same. Rivens are in a state of constant flux. No rivens are the same, and no one making the deals are the same. It's not a faceless corporation placing their products out for purchase. It's people preying on other people who don't have much experience (if any) to spend their cash/plat on stuff at 10x the normal price.

But those people clearly think that price is ok, they are willing to pay that.
Hell with your state of constant flux argument, who are we to say what a riven is actually worth, we have a saying "its what the crazy person is willing to give for it" and that applies here.

I feel paying 800 - 1000 dollars for a videocard is complete insanity, but another might feel its a perfectly fine price, heck, they will buy two of them.

I would never pay more then 50 plat for a riven if that, i dont really persue specific rivens, I just use what I get, its fun for me that way, deal with the cards you are dealt.

Another might really want that Rubico Prime riven and thinks 10k plat is a fine price for it, fine, maybe we both think that is insane but its not up to us to decide that, its their trade.

For someone who has played the game for some time, I agree. But there are people who don't know any better and don't have the experience that you and I have. Wicked people prey on them, exploit their ignorant innocence. Them not knowing any better doesn't make it okay.

[Anonn 20 16]

引用自 CCMatt：

引用自 |ZCG| Zone Dymo：

I just want to say on the video.... yeah ok there is a problem, this faceless trader does not even make any sense... unbalance? we are comparing gameplay skill with the skill to trade? k then, cuz that is similar at all.

But I will say this, if hte prices skyrocket, that means that there is apperently a market for it, there is no sense in charging 10k plat for a riven if nobody buys it.
So people are buying it, and well thats fine, tis their money, they can do what they want.

Take the latest Nvidia cards, their latest cards are hugely more expensive then previous generations, now i choose to not buy that, I feel the price is too high.
But others think the price is fine, and if enough people think that then well Nvidia will make their money and all is good.
Vote with your wallet.
Ill just wait, thats my personal choice.

If nobody would buy the cards, that would be bad business and Nvidia would have to lower the prices, same here, inflated prices is just how the market works thats all.

It's not the same. Rivens are in a state of constant flux. No rivens are the same, and no one making the deals are the same. It's not a faceless corporation placing their products out for purchase. It's people preying on other people who don't have much experience (if any) to spend their cash/plat on stuff at 10x the normal price.

this is why people should communicate. there are forums and a chat for a reason and that's to share information. i am not saying that what they do is okay but what i am saying is that people should get information when needed. as i mentioned on a previous post i made when i started playing the game i ended up paying 250 plat for a carrier that costed 15 and 100 plat for a paris prime part that costed 3-4 plat. that was my fault for not taking even 1 minute to check up on it. again i am not saying what they do is okay but the first thing we need to do is hold ourselves accountable. the information is/was already free and available at any time within a few seconds with the clicks of a few buttons but people still got scummed and this actualy says that people don't really pay attention to it and that's how they become easy targets. the best we can do is inform them when we can and hope the rest will actualy think before jumping into whatever is in front of them.

[MotherVicar]

引用自 CCMatt：

引用自 |ZCG| Zone Dymo：

But those people clearly think that price is ok, they are willing to pay that.
Hell with your state of constant flux argument, who are we to say what a riven is actually worth, we have a saying "its what the crazy person is willing to give for it" and that applies here.

I feel paying 800 - 1000 dollars for a videocard is complete insanity, but another might feel its a perfectly fine price, heck, they will buy two of them.

I would never pay more then 50 plat for a riven if that, i dont really persue specific rivens, I just use what I get, its fun for me that way, deal with the cards you are dealt.

Another might really want that Rubico Prime riven and thinks 10k plat is a fine price for it, fine, maybe we both think that is insane but its not up to us to decide that, its their trade.

For someone who has played the game for some time, I agree. But there are people who don't know any better and don't have the experience that you and I have. Wicked people prey on them, exploit their ignorant innocence. Them not knowing any better doesn't make it okay.

But the value of money has not changed, 10k plat is 10k plat worth of real money, their money, they know what they are paying and are apperently ok with it and that is then fine, that is their choice.
That is my point, I would not pay 800 bucks for a videocard, someone else might think that is more then reasonable and well thats the free market, that is fine.

[✨Saint✨]

Viva la revolucion!