more umbra warframes

[Taddy Mason]

i'm not a big fan of excalibur. he got boring fairly quickly. most other warframes I've played with since him have been more fun. however, I liked the quest for excalibur umbra. I'm hoping more warframes can get similar quests that allow you to unlock the blueprints for umbra versions of them.

i'm thinking if they do another story quest that is a series of missions that opens up smaller quests of even more missions-one quest for each frame and completing them all lets you unlock one last quest that's just a mission that leaves you with a new umbra warframe.

if they add a new warframe based on manipulating time to some degree-possibly with a bit of radiation based abilities-and a limbo umbra, a harrow umbra, and an equinox umbra whose combined skills are required to go back in time to before the Lotus was kidnapped (4 warframes to round out a squad for the mission) and get her help to free the other umbra warframes: baruuk umbra (the best of the monks), wukong umbra (the original and best monkey warrior), revenant umbra (the original revenant and one who gets a bonus for each additional revenant warframe in the squad?), gara umbra (the original gara who was sacrificed to stop that eidolon monstrosity), garuda umbra (the original garuda and maybe all umbras get a bonus for each prime or regular version of their same named frame in the squad?), and don't forget inaros and atlas umbra.

all together, that would be 12 umbra frames including excalibur-so 11 new ones. some of the frames i listed would be fun to go back in time to events mentioned in their lore and complete missions based around those events. especially if it's all incredibly tough end game content. gara's at least should be-that eidolon behemoth should be as tough as an Orb Heist.

maybe there's something wrong in the timeline-that classic ol' plotline. you have to go back in time and fight the umbra versions of these warframes and get the timeline back on track, but before you do that, you have to go rescue another umbra frame until you unlocked/fixed them all and then you can all go and meet up with excalibur umbra. together you alter that original cutscene so excalibur umbra isn't beaten in it, thus changing and stopping all the events you did in sacrifice, freeing the Lotus before she was ever even kidnapped and altered, and thus creating the ripple in the timeline that was the reason you had to go back and fix/unlock all those umbra frames.

after that, the warframes have to return to their times and be destroyed by the events that should have happened to them naturally except for one-when you get to the last one, you find out that they've already returned and there's another exact version of them in place. it's not really explained, but it's left to assume that something about all the dimensional, space, and time travel combined with harrow and limbo's Void based abilities caused another version of whichever that umbra was to show up. this helps explain away the many umbras you'll see. you're one of those many versions created by all the dimensional/space/time/void travel mucking with and maybe creating the Warframe Multiverse-infinite versions of the Warframe Universe.

what do you think? do you want more umbra frames too? do you want these umbra frames? do you want to do more missions similar to what i described above? i'm curious to hear what people think. i like the story and the lore of this game and i'm hoping that more sentient warframes become available because i think some of these frames have descriptions that make me think of fun missions that could be played thru as that warframe or to support that warframe in action and help them with their epic quest.

baruuk. monks. the dojos we can make. anyone else wanna help baruuks and baruuk umbra defend a dojo? the wukongs and a different style dojo? revenant and gara in an older styled plains of eidolon map or map chunk (in case the full map is too much)? i've got no ideas for garuda umbra, though.

[Walrus-Sama]

Originally posted by massgunner32:

Originally posted by _StanleyTweedle_:

" Black guy " ? What...?

The man without the balls.

wut

[Watermelons]

Originally posted by massgunner32:

Originally posted by Something Something Watermelons:

She was reintroduced to the Sentient hivemind. She's back under the Mother's influence.

That's not how hiveminds work, and i'm pretty sure there was some black guy involved.

Because you're an expert on hiveminds. They removed her helmet and she turned back to her true and original Sentient form. What else do you think it could be?

Ballas wooed her with his BOC, she was like "I'm not actually Margulis though.", to which he responded with "Yeah I don't care, I love you bb." Which convinced her to remove the helmet and go. Before, while Hunhow could infiltrate her mind, he could not convince her to come back to him and his side. Without the helmet, which we've kept, she was reawoken into her old Natah persona.
With that, she's back on the side of Hunhow and the Mother. Maybe not back into the hivemind, but certainly under her/their control.

[massgunner32]

Originally posted by Something Something Watermelons:

Originally posted by massgunner32:

That's not how hiveminds work, and i'm pretty sure there was some black guy involved.

Because you're an expert on hiveminds. They removed her helmet and she turned back to her true and original Sentient form. What else do you think it could be?

Ballas wooed her with his BOC, she was like "I'm not actually Margulis though.", to which he responded with "Yeah I don't care, I love you bb." Which convinced her to remove the helmet and go. Before, while Hunhow could infiltrate her mind, he could not convince her to come back to him and his side. Without the helmet, which we've kept, she was reawoken into her old Natah persona.
With that, she's back on the side of Hunhow and the Mother. Maybe not back into the hivemind, but certainly under her/their control.

That wouldn't make sense since she first betrayed Hunhow, who is still resting in literal pieces in Uranus looking for revenge, to stay with the Tenno, assuming this collective conscience can reach the Lotus hideout then how she "broke protocol" and prevented the final phase from coming to fruition?.

[Watermelons]

Originally posted by massgunner32:

Originally posted by Something Something Watermelons:

Because you're an expert on hiveminds. They removed her helmet and she turned back to her true and original Sentient form. What else do you think it could be?

Ballas wooed her with his BOC, she was like "I'm not actually Margulis though.", to which he responded with "Yeah I don't care, I love you bb." Which convinced her to remove the helmet and go. Before, while Hunhow could infiltrate her mind, he could not convince her to come back to him and his side. Without the helmet, which we've kept, she was reawoken into her old Natah persona.
With that, she's back on the side of Hunhow and the Mother. Maybe not back into the hivemind, but certainly under her/their control.

That wouldn't make sense since she first betrayed Hunhow, who is still resting in literal pieces in Uranus looking for revenge, to stay with the Tenno, assuming this collective conscience can reach the Lotus hideout then how she "broke protocol" and prevented the final phase from coming to fruition?.

Perhaps the h e l m e t I've mentioned? But at that point, it's all speculation, though I'm inclined to say it's better than believing she outright betrayed us. People like to assume that because they didn't like her to begin with and want to get rid of her already.

Why would she break protocol and betray the Sentients over her newfound love of the Tenno, then wait untold amount of time to betray them and turn back to the Sentients anyways?
She may have hidden secrets from the Tenno under her misguided attempts to protect them, but playing that long game makes absolutely no sense when you're one step away from winning anyways.

[massgunner32]

Originally posted by Something Something Watermelons:

Originally posted by massgunner32:

That wouldn't make sense since she first betrayed Hunhow, who is still resting in literal pieces in Uranus looking for revenge, to stay with the Tenno, assuming this collective conscience can reach the Lotus hideout then how she "broke protocol" and prevented the final phase from coming to fruition?.

Perhaps the h e l m e t I've mentioned? But at that point, it's all speculation, though I'm inclined to say it's better than believing she outright betrayed us. People like to assume that because they didn't like her to begin with and want to get rid of her already.

The problem with the helmet is that i don't see how she ends up with a hat that "blocks" mind control, honestly i find hard to believe that self replicating lifeforms who evolved from sapience developing machines are subject to mind control of some vulgar alien queen, the Natah questline is basically telling us why she went rogue.

I like Lotus, but you know, getting dumped out of the blue for certain someone, the leaving that someone to suffer alone as a shadow of it's former self, leaves a lot of murderous speculation.

[GroovyHobo]

Bad idea.

On many levels.

[Taddy Mason]

Originally posted by massgunner32:

The thing with Umbras is that there is a very limited selection of them due to practical and lorewise reasons, for starters the Primes are pretty much what are you talking about "original and most powerfull Warframes", in fact the main reason Excalibur Umbra exists is because the Prime is unobtainable for everyone.
And second, the lore states Umbras were experimental units created by Balles to fight the Tenno in case of an "order 66" scenario, but with them going rampant he closed the project and went for the Stalker Dax armor route, this means only some of the earliest WF will have the privilege of getting Umbra. With this in mid all this messing with the lore is unnecesary and an effort that's better put on developing the current storyline.

i thought it was clear that if multiple warframes working together to alter the past by manipulating dimensions, space, and time travel altered the fabric of reality enough to allow for multiple versions of it and the warframes in it to exist-PLUS altering the events that happened to warframes in the lore AND what happened to Lotus and Excalibur Umbra, that it would make sense they could alter other things in the lore and chalk it up to a combination of altering timelines and realities as well as decisions made by you and your tenno in your quests. instead of strictly following the lore as if it's the unchangeable word of god or something-allow it to be more fluid because your actions have either altered events in history or you've discovered the actual truth of that historical event and learned that things were embellished a little bit.
i like the bits of choice they give us in the story missions and think they could give us more of those that have a more meaningful impact that not only lets us shape the story of the present, but also the past to a certain extent. it would allow for more personalized stories without automatically invalidating any of the lore. little things that combine to establish differences between the various tennos's worlds.

[Taddy Mason]

Originally posted by GroovyBum:

Bad idea.

On many levels.

too many to list even a few?

[Grey Star, The Rival Defender]

Originally posted by massgunner32:

Originally posted by Something Something Watermelons:

Perhaps the h e l m e t I've mentioned? But at that point, it's all speculation, though I'm inclined to say it's better than believing she outright betrayed us. People like to assume that because they didn't like her to begin with and want to get rid of her already.

The problem with the helmet is that i don't see how she ends up with a hat that "blocks" mind control, honestly i find hard to believe that self replicating lifeforms who evolved from sapience developing machines are subject to mind control of some vulgar alien queen, the Natah questline is basically telling us why she went rogue.

I like Lotus, but you know, getting dumped out of the blue for certain someone, the leaving that someone to suffer alone as a shadow of it's former self, leaves a lot of murderous speculation.

Yeah sure she'll risk everything to try and stop Hunhow from learning about the Resevior, then risk everything to try and stop the Stalker from destroying the moon, then forcefully pull the moon out of the void, and then instruct the Tenno to evacuate themselves, and then at the very last will guide the Tenno in fighting the Stalker, and then arrive in person to put the Tenno inside the transference chair.

All as a grand scheme to kill us later when we've got an Umbra Warframe and guns made out of Sentient bones that shoots pure ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Void damage.

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE BLUE LONG ASS ARM ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ REMOVING HER HELMET, OH NO, NO SIR, NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT AT ALL

[Commander Hitman2b]

the only purpose of umbra is that i can fight if your using your operator

[GroovyHobo]

Originally posted by Taddy Mason:

Originally posted by GroovyBum:

Bad idea.

On many levels.

too many to list even a few?

Obvious story plot holes.

Would devalue prime frames and cause power creep.

And umbra is meant to be unique to just one or maybe someday a couple of warframes.

And this would cause DE to stop actually make content and to make stupid mini quests for frames that we already have... Basically mini quests for a skin and minor stats modifications. Waste of development time.

[Taddy Mason]

Originally posted by Something Something Watermelons:

Originally posted by Taddy Mason:

thanks?

If you're being genuine, you completely misunderstood what Umbra means.

But the whole time traveling bit made the ♥♥♥♥ post obvious. And for whatever reason, all your posts here on the WF forum.

no ♥♥♥♥ post here. i thought i made it evident i was talking about far more than mere time travel. i tried to express ideas on how they can change it without breaking lore and also allowing for more player involvement in both the lore as well as allowing them to fight warframes as bosses before helping those warframes as allies against even stronger bosses in historical missions/battles that either confirm established lore or alter it slightly based on player choices.
how do you get "this is an obvious ♥♥♥♥ post" from that? who would put that much thought into a post like this if they weren't being genuine?
i take it you don't want them to change the lore so more umbra frames can exist and allow for specter-like warframe that can run around using it's abilities and equipped weapons while you're messing thugs up as your operator? if not, why not? does that not sound like more fun gameplay as well as story content for this game?

[massgunner32]

Originally posted by Grey Star, New Year Umbra:

Originally posted by massgunner32:

The problem with the helmet is that i don't see how she ends up with a hat that "blocks" mind control, honestly i find hard to believe that self replicating lifeforms who evolved from sapience developing machines are subject to mind control of some vulgar alien queen, the Natah questline is basically telling us why she went rogue.

I like Lotus, but you know, getting dumped out of the blue for certain someone, the leaving that someone to suffer alone as a shadow of it's former self, leaves a lot of murderous speculation.

Yeah sure she'll risk everything to try and stop Hunhow from learning about the Resevior, then risk everything to try and stop the Stalker from destroying the moon, then forcefully pull the moon out of the void, and then instruct the Tenno to evacuate themselves, and then at the very last will guide the Tenno in fighting the Stalker, and then arrive in person to put the Tenno inside the transference chair.

All as a grand scheme to kill us later when we've got an Umbra Warframe and guns made out of Sentient bones that shoots pure ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Void damage.

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE BLUE LONG ASS ARM ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ REMOVING HER HELMET, OH NO, NO SIR, NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT AT ALL

Never said there was a plan, she just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ left, then ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ left him, again i'm pretty sure removing the helmet has something to do with her face and Balles tendency to start a mess for selfish reasons (*Cough*Margulis *Cough*) rather than some mind control alien queen
that wa never explained.

[Taddy Mason]

Originally posted by GroovyBum:

Originally posted by Taddy Mason:

too many to list even a few?

Obvious story plot holes.

Would devalue prime frames and cause power creep.

And umbra is meant to be unique to just one or maybe someday a couple of warframes.

And this would cause DE to stop actually make content and to make stupid mini quests for frames that we already have... Basically mini quests for a skin and minor stats modifications. Waste of development time.

i didn't see any plot holes. can you name one or two for me so i can see about fixing it?

i disagree they'd do either of those things. balancing is possible and all it would take.

and again, multiple dimensions/timelines/realities/take your pick of term or rationale would allow for more than just one or a few. if you think about it for a second, you'd realize EVERYONE-literally EVERYONE-who beats The Sacrifice-gets Excalibur Umbra. potentially millions of that "unique" frame floating around. according to your lore they are all in the same galaxy, reality, dimension, and timeline-so how do you explain hundreds, thousands, or potentially millions of excalibur umbras in that space?
i had to use alter realities or dimensions or altering the past or different universes. or that there's an umbra version of more than one frame. SOME explanation is needed for how he's so unique but i can literally do missions with 3 others and chill out in Cetus with dozens that all look completely different.
with other similar versions of the warframe universe we're all supposedly playing in being created by a bunch of powerful umbra versions of alread powerful warframes messing with space, time, and dimensions by manipulating the Void, i think i did a decent job of allowing DE to open the way to making more story based content centered around more of the frames. it also would give us players more control over the lore-similar to how your actions in the witcher 3 supposedly affected the world around you as the story progressed and time went on. it works in other RPGs-why would it be bad here?

[massgunner32]

Originally posted by Taddy Mason:

Originally posted by GroovyBum:

Obvious story plot holes.

Would devalue prime frames and cause power creep.

And umbra is meant to be unique to just one or maybe someday a couple of warframes.

And this would cause DE to stop actually make content and to make stupid mini quests for frames that we already have... Basically mini quests for a skin and minor stats modifications. Waste of development time.

i didn't see any plot holes. can you name one or two for me so i can see about fixing it?

i disagree they'd do either of those things. balancing is possible and all it would take.

and again, multiple dimensions/timelines/realities/take your pick of term or rationale would allow for more than just one or a few. if you think about it for a second, you'd realize EVERYONE-literally EVERYONE-who beats The Sacrifice-gets Excalibur Umbra. potentially millions of that "unique" frame floating around. according to your lore they are all in the same galaxy, reality, dimension, and timeline-so how do you explain hundreds, thousands, or potentially millions of excalibur umbras in that space?
i had to use alter realities or dimensions or altering the past or different universes. or that there's an umbra version of more than one frame. SOME explanation is needed for how he's so unique but i can literally do missions with 3 others and chill out in Cetus with dozens that all look completely different.
with other similar versions of the warframe universe we're all supposedly playing in being created by a bunch of powerful umbra versions of alread powerful warframes messing with space, time, and dimensions by manipulating the Void, i think i did a decent job of allowing DE to open the way to making more story based content centered around more of the frames. it also would give us players more control over the lore-similar to how your actions in the witcher 3 supposedly affected the world around you as the story progressed and time went on. it works in other RPGs-why would it be bad here?

Wow, you have such a problem separating Lore and gameplay that you need the Time-travel and multiple dimensions stuff, the most confusing plot devices ever, retcon the Umbras backstory and mix them with a convoluted mess of both.