end game with the operator

[silver dragon [dragania cnl]]

i do think maybe a new type of endgame could be with the operator in the void and maybe with that the operator could get pistols that is powered by the amps and of course the endgame is can only be done by the operator

[Foxtrot39]

According to what we know, they would be like wizard, strong ranged attacks but weak up close

I.E strong caster with space magic (void power), must be soem power fro mthe zariman accident we still haven't recovered

[FALLENV3GAS]

引用自 Malidictus：

引用自 Ishan451：

The problem is, if you make the Operator to powerful, nobody uses a Warframe anymore. And then what are they gonna sell?

That seems needlessly speculative. I don't see how it's even possibl to make Operators more powerful than Waframes without a MASSIVE redesign of the entire system and substantial buffs. The problem with Operators right now is actually the reverse. Considering my Warframe is always going to be faster, tougher, more heavily armed and more versatile than my Operator, what's the point of switching to the Operator in the first place? Outside of contrived mechanics which literally bar us from using our Warframes (such as Eidolons), nobody uses Operators, so how are they going to sell Operator Cosmetics?

The problem right now is that Operators just clunky to play, not terribly useful and MASSIVELY expensive to progress. I'd like to see a redesign of their basic controls and mechanics, so playing them doesn't feel like I'm wading through hip-deep snow with enough energy to do one cool thing every few minutes and sit on my hands the rest of the time. Even just accomplishing that would be a major step in the right direction. Make Operators actually cool to play, then we can worry about how powerful they are or when they're useful.

Long story short, though - I don't see Operators replacing Warframes.

引用自 FALLENV3GAS：

Agreed with both. I would love for each school to have their own unique active (keyword) abilities to use. You could make them waybound though personally that would detract from each school.

I'm of the opinion that Operator Schools themselves need a major redesign, because a lot of the abilities in them are... Kind of really boring. +% armour, +% energy regen, +% running speed, chance for +% damage, etc. They absolutely do make a difference, but they're almost entirely passive, behind-the-scenes buffs which leave the actual moment-to-moment gameplay very basic. Stay invisible, walk slowly, shoot if you have energy, wait if you don't.

Having more buttons to push, more decisions to make (in real time) and more abilities to use would help, absolutely. Tying them to the existing Focus schools isn't a terrible idea, either. I'd personally prefer to see each Focus school have a bunch of active abilities uniquely its own over having a single Waybound active ability, because the later would make all Operators the same.

To be perfectly honest, I'm a bit unhappy with the Waybound system in general. It seems to me that an Operator with all of the Waybound skills would be decently fun to play even without active abilities, but the cost of investment in actually doing so is MASSIVE. I'd much rather see a separate "Generic" Focus school with just the Waybound abilities removed from their respective Schools, to be replaced with non-Waybound active abilities, instead.

But again - that's probably not in the cards. In general, though, I'm in agreement with adding non-Waybound active abilities to existing Focus schools.

I'm in complete agreement, Focus farming is some of the biggest grind in the entire grind for only small only what is very incremental amounts of power everytime you upgrade a skill.

Not to mention like you said percentage/number based upgrades are quite frankly boring. For anyone to bring up the argument of mods doing that, I'll just answer that now - that the difference between mods and focus is that mods allow you to completely change how abilities work and thus perform where as Focus only positively adds to your abilities but gives far less creative experimentation.

I'm assuming (and hoping) that due to the fact DE are thinking about developing operator mode that it will get a rework and a focus change. One I hope to see is that you can remove Lenses at will without having them destroyed since it's just a bizarre oversight in comparasion to Arcanes being able to be removed freely.

[GunsForBucks]

引用自 FALLENV3GAS：

引用自 Malidictus：

That seems needlessly speculative. I don't see how it's even possibl to make Operators more powerful than Waframes without a MASSIVE redesign of the entire system and substantial buffs. The problem with Operators right now is actually the reverse. Considering my Warframe is always going to be faster, tougher, more heavily armed and more versatile than my Operator, what's the point of switching to the Operator in the first place? Outside of contrived mechanics which literally bar us from using our Warframes (such as Eidolons), nobody uses Operators, so how are they going to sell Operator Cosmetics?

The problem right now is that Operators just clunky to play, not terribly useful and MASSIVELY expensive to progress. I'd like to see a redesign of their basic controls and mechanics, so playing them doesn't feel like I'm wading through hip-deep snow with enough energy to do one cool thing every few minutes and sit on my hands the rest of the time. Even just accomplishing that would be a major step in the right direction. Make Operators actually cool to play, then we can worry about how powerful they are or when they're useful.

Long story short, though - I don't see Operators replacing Warframes.



I'm of the opinion that Operator Schools themselves need a major redesign, because a lot of the abilities in them are... Kind of really boring. +% armour, +% energy regen, +% running speed, chance for +% damage, etc. They absolutely do make a difference, but they're almost entirely passive, behind-the-scenes buffs which leave the actual moment-to-moment gameplay very basic. Stay invisible, walk slowly, shoot if you have energy, wait if you don't.

Having more buttons to push, more decisions to make (in real time) and more abilities to use would help, absolutely. Tying them to the existing Focus schools isn't a terrible idea, either. I'd personally prefer to see each Focus school have a bunch of active abilities uniquely its own over having a single Waybound active ability, because the later would make all Operators the same.

To be perfectly honest, I'm a bit unhappy with the Waybound system in general. It seems to me that an Operator with all of the Waybound skills would be decently fun to play even without active abilities, but the cost of investment in actually doing so is MASSIVE. I'd much rather see a separate "Generic" Focus school with just the Waybound abilities removed from their respective Schools, to be replaced with non-Waybound active abilities, instead.

But again - that's probably not in the cards. In general, though, I'm in agreement with adding non-Waybound active abilities to existing Focus schools.

I'm in complete agreement, Focus farming is some of the biggest grind in the entire grind for only small only what is very incremental amounts of power everytime you upgrade a skill.

Not to mention like you said percentage/number based upgrades are quite frankly boring. For anyone to bring up the argument of mods doing that, I'll just answer that now - that the difference between mods and focus is that mods allow you to completely change how abilities work and thus perform where as Focus only positively adds to your abilities but gives far less creative experimentation.

I'm assuming (and hoping) that due to the fact DE are thinking about developing operator mode that it will get a rework and a focus change. One I hope to see is that you can remove Lenses at will without having them destroyed since it's just a bizarre oversight in comparasion to Arcanes being able to be removed freely.

Greater lens is 20 plat in the market terminal... so ...

Also once you get decent lenses equipped getting 360,000 focus in less than an hour with boosters isn't difficult with a decent crew and maps in ESO.

[V.V.]

Operator PvP might be fun. Might give them incentive to improve Operator combat in general. They still move around rather clunky... to me anyway.

[Jaynoble55]

No

[FALLENV3GAS]

引用自 GunsForBucks：

引用自 FALLENV3GAS：

I'm in complete agreement, Focus farming is some of the biggest grind in the entire grind for only small only what is very incremental amounts of power everytime you upgrade a skill.

Not to mention like you said percentage/number based upgrades are quite frankly boring. For anyone to bring up the argument of mods doing that, I'll just answer that now - that the difference between mods and focus is that mods allow you to completely change how abilities work and thus perform where as Focus only positively adds to your abilities but gives far less creative experimentation.

I'm assuming (and hoping) that due to the fact DE are thinking about developing operator mode that it will get a rework and a focus change. One I hope to see is that you can remove Lenses at will without having them destroyed since it's just a bizarre oversight in comparasion to Arcanes being able to be removed freely.

Greater lens is 20 plat in the market terminal... so ...

Also once you get decent lenses equipped getting 360,000 focus in less than an hour with boosters isn't difficult with a decent crew and maps in ESO.

And...? I'm not referring to it's plat cost but it's RNG to obtain.

I'm swimming in Eidelon Lenses and have them equipped on a few complete loadouts. That however doesn't change it requires a lot of focus to only add up an incremental amount and is very tedious.

[GunsForBucks]

引用自 FALLENV3GAS：

引用自 GunsForBucks：

Greater lens is 20 plat in the market terminal... so ...

Also once you get decent lenses equipped getting 360,000 focus in less than an hour with boosters isn't difficult with a decent crew and maps in ESO.

And...? I'm not referring to it's plat cost but it's RNG to obtain.

I'm swimming in Eidelon Lenses and have them equipped on a few complete loadouts. That however doesn't change it requires a lot of focus to only add up an incremental amount and is very tedious.

Those last couple of ticks on a prime mod can be pretty tedious as well.. but worth it.

The worst is the Waybounds at 1 million each.. but 3 days at one hour per day isn't terrible by any means.


And I mention the plat cost as the reason why DE has chosen to make them get destroyed rather than swappable.

[Mummel]

the operator can eat ♥♥♥♥, I farmed harrow and vauban prime for way too long to not use them.
That little nerd can stay in the ship and play tetris for all I but it took me ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ months to get all the nitain with my time schedule.

[FALLENV3GAS]

引用自 GunsForBucks：

引用自 FALLENV3GAS：

And...? I'm not referring to it's plat cost but it's RNG to obtain.

I'm swimming in Eidelon Lenses and have them equipped on a few complete loadouts. That however doesn't change it requires a lot of focus to only add up an incremental amount and is very tedious.

Those last couple of ticks on a prime mod can be pretty tedious as well.. but worth it.

The worst is the Waybounds at 1 million each.. but 3 days at one hour per day isn't terrible by any means.


And I mention the plat cost as the reason why DE has chosen to make them get destroyed rather than swappable.

I can understand that for potatoes since there is no reason not to have them installed on a weapon but for the case of Lenses whenever you switch to another school you can't use the ideal weapon you may want to since it's likely got another schools Lense installed on it. Seems too restrictive for the sake of it.

[Mooman]

Powerful operators are problematic from a lore perspective.

The warframes with low tech weapons were made to fight the sentients. If the operator was good at fighting why bother with frames?

Admittedly the awakened operators with quill amps are much tougher then Orokin era but I feel they should still take a back seat in new war vs sentients or it ignores history (hopefully corpus tech weapons suffer).

[Malidictus]

引用自 GunsForBucks：

Greater lens is 20 plat in the market terminal... so ...

Also once you get decent lenses equipped getting 360,000 focus in less than an hour with boosters isn't difficult with a decent crew and maps in ESO.

40 Plat, actually, and that's still not an Eidolon Lens. Rather, the problem with the Operator Grind is that it's substantially longer than any other grind in the game, and it's also completely backwards. The best way to progress my Operator is to NOT play my Operator, but stick a bunch of lenses on my Warframe items, instead. This is part of why I ask "To what end?" in regards to Operators. I progress them by not playing them, they're never a better choice than my Warframe, so what exactly am I grinding for?

Warframe has a similat problem to Titanfall, in that there's never really a good reason to leave your Titan. That's why that game makes Titans a resource. You start without a Titan, you have to earn it, you can't heal it and eventually you lose it all over again. It's also big and clumsy so you need to leave it behind in order to go into tight spaces. Warframe being a game about the Warframes can't do any of the above, so the Operator system is left kind of vestigial - sort of like Archwings. Yes, I could dump resources, time and effort into upgrading them, but... to what end?

引用自 FALLENV3GAS：

Not to mention like you said percentage/number based upgrades are quite frankly boring. For anyone to bring up the argument of mods doing that, I'll just answer that now - that the difference between mods and focus is that mods allow you to completely change how abilities work and thus perform where as Focus only positively adds to your abilities but gives far less creative experimentation.

Honestly, I have a similar problem with Mods, though to a much lesser extent. While a lot of mods offer similarly dull +%damage, +%health bonuses, they're part of a far more flexible system. Limited slots, limited capacity, slot polarisation, mutually exclusive mods - all of that adds up to a decent build customisation system. Grind aside, all Operator Focus allows you to do is pick one of five packages of stat buffs. And that's before we consider how some mods can fundamentally alter the way weapons and abilities behave. Inaros' Negation Swarm mod changes his playstyle substantially, for example

By contrast, Focus abilities typically just increase Operator stats. Like I said - the increases are not insignificant, but very few of them actually change the basic way in which Operators play, and the basic way they play is static and boring. They have the potential to be massively mobile, stealthy "glass cannons" or "tricksters," but the Operator Energy bottleneck means they don't get to do that much at all.

I mean, think about it. Imagine if your Warframe's Bullet Jump and Melee Attacks cost energy to use. I'm sure the game could and would be balanced around it, but just think about how much less dynamic and compelling the game would be that way. That's where Operators are. Focus abilities can lessen the restrictions to an extent, but they still weigh Operator gameplay down substantially.

引用自 FALLENV3GAS：

I'm assuming (and hoping) that due to the fact DE are thinking about developing operator mode that it will get a rework and a focus change. One I hope to see is that you can remove Lenses at will without having them destroyed since it's just a bizarre oversight in comparasion to Arcanes being able to be removed freely.

That would be a BIG one, yes. Permanent Focus lenses heavily limit progression flexibility, essentially locking players down to a single Focus tree by imparting such a steep cost (potentially a monetary cost) on switching Focus Trees. DE have a history of implementing heavily grindy systems and improving the experience with feedback, so I hope that they'll do the same with Operator progression. Interchangeable lenses would be an easy first step.

In general, though, I feel what Operators need is for some of the grind to be replaced with variety, instead. As I said before, offering kits of active abilities as an additional gear item might be a nice way to go, mimicking the Warframe dynamic without copying it entirely. A larger inventory of swappable options always trumps a small inventory of high-grind passive bonuses, in my opinion.

There's always going to be grind in the game, I've accepted that much. I'd just rather grind for more options than to unlock basic functionality.

[FALLENV3GAS]

引用自 Malidictus：

引用自 GunsForBucks：

Greater lens is 20 plat in the market terminal... so ...

Also once you get decent lenses equipped getting 360,000 focus in less than an hour with boosters isn't difficult with a decent crew and maps in ESO.

40 Plat, actually, and that's still not an Eidolon Lens. Rather, the problem with the Operator Grind is that it's substantially longer than any other grind in the game, and it's also completely backwards. The best way to progress my Operator is to NOT play my Operator, but stick a bunch of lenses on my Warframe items, instead. This is part of why I ask "To what end?" in regards to Operators. I progress them by not playing them, they're never a better choice than my Warframe, so what exactly am I grinding for?

Warframe has a similat problem to Titanfall, in that there's never really a good reason to leave your Titan. That's why that game makes Titans a resource. You start without a Titan, you have to earn it, you can't heal it and eventually you lose it all over again. It's also big and clumsy so you need to leave it behind in order to go into tight spaces. Warframe being a game about the Warframes can't do any of the above, so the Operator system is left kind of vestigial - sort of like Archwings. Yes, I could dump resources, time and effort into upgrading them, but... to what end?

引用自 FALLENV3GAS：

Not to mention like you said percentage/number based upgrades are quite frankly boring. For anyone to bring up the argument of mods doing that, I'll just answer that now - that the difference between mods and focus is that mods allow you to completely change how abilities work and thus perform where as Focus only positively adds to your abilities but gives far less creative experimentation.

Honestly, I have a similar problem with Mods, though to a much lesser extent. While a lot of mods offer similarly dull +%damage, +%health bonuses, they're part of a far more flexible system. Limited slots, limited capacity, slot polarisation, mutually exclusive mods - all of that adds up to a decent build customisation system. Grind aside, all Operator Focus allows you to do is pick one of five packages of stat buffs. And that's before we consider how some mods can fundamentally alter the way weapons and abilities behave. Inaros' Negation Swarm mod changes his playstyle substantially, for example

By contrast, Focus abilities typically just increase Operator stats. Like I said - the increases are not insignificant, but very few of them actually change the basic way in which Operators play, and the basic way they play is static and boring. They have the potential to be massively mobile, stealthy "glass cannons" or "tricksters," but the Operator Energy bottleneck means they don't get to do that much at all.

I mean, think about it. Imagine if your Warframe's Bullet Jump and Melee Attacks cost energy to use. I'm sure the game could and would be balanced around it, but just think about how much less dynamic and compelling the game would be that way. That's where Operators are. Focus abilities can lessen the restrictions to an extent, but they still weigh Operator gameplay down substantially.

引用自 FALLENV3GAS：

I'm assuming (and hoping) that due to the fact DE are thinking about developing operator mode that it will get a rework and a focus change. One I hope to see is that you can remove Lenses at will without having them destroyed since it's just a bizarre oversight in comparasion to Arcanes being able to be removed freely.

That would be a BIG one, yes. Permanent Focus lenses heavily limit progression flexibility, essentially locking players down to a single Focus tree by imparting such a steep cost (potentially a monetary cost) on switching Focus Trees. DE have a history of implementing heavily grindy systems and improving the experience with feedback, so I hope that they'll do the same with Operator progression. Interchangeable lenses would be an easy first step.

In general, though, I feel what Operators need is for some of the grind to be replaced with variety, instead. As I said before, offering kits of active abilities as an additional gear item might be a nice way to go, mimicking the Warframe dynamic without copying it entirely. A larger inventory of swappable options always trumps a small inventory of high-grind passive bonuses, in my opinion.

There's always going to be grind in the game, I've accepted that much. I'd just rather grind for more options than to unlock basic functionality.

The issue with grind and in this game specifically is that it can easily fall into grinding something that really isn't worth it. Focus feels like that, too niche (only use in Eidelon) too expensive both in focus cost and AMP crafting costs and not generally not as powerful when compared to the amount of work put in.

I wouldn't mind Operators even having the convential mod slots to actually able to be customised to you liking. Everything else can be modded exactly how you want and your operator shouldn't be different. If they made the Focus system the place to unlock and upgrade abilities that not only would make it far more interesting (no more boring +5hp every level) it would offer far more gameplay mechanics into the fold.

[GunsForBucks]

Honestly I think the progression system for operators is great.

It makes the player actually play in order to upgrade... you don't have the option to just trade for mods you don't want to farm for.

This game is full of "progression" systems that can be bought.. but in the cases of MR and Focus you have to actually play the game. Not a surprise that would bother some people.

I would like to see mods being able to be applied to Amps, but on the operators themselves I think it would be too much.. they are really powerful now but people tend not to play them since warframes are able to do different things.. more toys so to speak.. and I would say that is a good thing considering the name of the game is warframe.

[M.Confuddle]

Instead of the system now I had seen a system where the operator is just a Spell 5, intependend from the Warframe like Summoners Spells in LoL. And this spell has Cooldown or an other mechanic (e.g. gather focus). And you gather points to upgrade it when you use it and Upgrades change it behaviour or give different benefits.
I mean would be cool to use "Spell Operator" to nuke a room or heal everyone in a mission with flashy, fast and cool animation...

So it is a "Prestige" Endgame thing for me, thats dont have much of an effect outsides of Eidolon Hunts. The controlling is wanky at best and with minimal lags gets very annoying...
And yeah Operator Gameplay could be better with all the Waybounds unlocked but damn this 1mil Focus... I dont have that much time asides work and sleep so the ~30 Days to max one School will end in a year or so...

[TheTool]

What I would like the most is to be able to use my amps while remaining in void mode.
Levitaion would be nice addition too.