Railjack will always be a chore, don't think or expect that it won't

[Sceles]

Void Hole, Munitions Vortex, Tether, etc. You think these will help you. You think these will free you from archwing. They won't. Whether you're flying your railjack or using archwing it will never be the same easy nuke and forget gameplay as in rest of the game. (At least not until DE implements the AI crew. But we'll see how that performs then.)

Even with maxed out railjack nuking is a massive chore that requires both flux management and watching out for boarding parties. You also cannot take out crewships if you're on the pilot's seat. Now is the huge cannon on the ship worth another player... no, it isn't. That player could be going around in archwing shooting ships and destroying crewships before they even become a threat to the railjack. This actually applies to every position: Every position other than the pilot's position is strictly worse than going outside the ship and taking out enemies using archwing.

If you're piloting and using Rhino to buff yourself you can take out fighters about as effectively as two archwing players working together but you need to be constantly moving and watching out for crew pods and buffing yourself. And like I already mentioned before, you can't do anything about crewships. It's quite a bit harder than flying around with Amesha, blinking from target to target, and shredding them to pieces with a riven modded Cyngas. If DE at any point nerfs railjack buffing then it will become so weak that piloting it will simply no longer be worth the trouble.

So basically my points are:
1. Even if your railjack is completely maxed out you can't press 1 button to win.
2. If you're not piloting it's way more useful to get out of the railjack and do things using your archwing. Gunner positions = useless.
3. If railjack buffing is ever nerfed it'll become too weak compared to archwing.

How would I solve the situation:
Nerf Amesha. Buff other archwings. Give gunners their own tactical/battle avionics that do not conflict with the pilot's avionics and that are more damage heavy than the pilot's.

[Sceles]

引用自 PhotriusPyrelus：

ITT: lots of people complaining about Railjack balance before getting a maxed out Railjack.

Intrinsics 6785. I've bought and rushed everything. No Vidar reactor(49), but a few % here and there isn't going to change everything. I feel like I've done all things possible to make my railjack dish out more dps. And it's still not worth using over archwing for anyone except the pilot, who still has to be tryharding to get things done.

引用自 Hungry：

引用自 Sceles：

1. Even if your railjack is completely maxed out you can't press 1 button to win.

So, basically you are saying it's good.

Points 2 and 3 make it not so good, and the fact that it's actually completely useless in combat if you have not maxed it out and obtained the meta battle avionics. 1 is more of a realization after nearly maxing it out.

[Forza Piadina]

引用自 Jodyxe：

引用自 Walkerk19：

Nothing beats Seeker Volley battle avionic tho.

Except for default countermeasures that fighters have on some Saturn nodes already, and on every Veil node :) I liked it a lot on Earth and in the beginning of the Saturn.

引用自 PhotriusPyrelus：

1. Healing loop - thats right, just leave the yellowish area and its fine but still, its just additional thing to be aware of;
   
2. Crew - if played as intended, that would be correct, we could decimate Veil. However we still need boarder that will also loot drops, and engineer that suppose to keep an eye on foundry and interior status - that leaves us with 2 players on guns. Even though I can pilot very carefully and resourceful, without engineer being required at foundry at all times, people are still tend to leave the ship and scatter around for loot, kills and objective. What I mean is - intended way of playing this mode isn't the most efficient way according to most players, and efficiency is king for players, so we either squad up and truly role-play entire thing, or leave as it is, when each player play however they feel more suiting;
   
3. Loot radar - Is very very hard to implement in this mode. In archwing it was impossible for me to find that little mod that I saw on the map, but could not see in the space around. The reason for that is true 3 dimensional experience/space with items that you cannot easily highlight on 2 dimensional map. I doubt we will get any additions to this part, but at least items are easily noticeable from far away;
   
4. Titanium - is not rewarded at the end of the mission and currently is the only resource falling behind in my stockpile/ However in the beginning I desperate for copernics and pustrels. This inequality speaks for, perhaps, unbalanced economics, simply because just playing missions as intended is not enough to fund construction/repair, and player has to do extra work to gather more titanium. To be completely honest it is fine with me, it is loot and shoot game after all, but this inequality is just very visible in my case;
   
5. Seeking ordnance - is my favorite, MK2 deals decent damage and can blow up all weaks pots of this fighter that drops mines and stuff. So i imagine MK3 being way better, plus I always have Zetki Warhead avionics installed that adds 71% more damage to ordnance;
   
6. RNG - *sigh*, there is no escape from that in this game, I believe. It adds some kind of thrill in the beginning, but in the long term it leaves very bad taste. I loved liches and farmed the hell out of them, but then I stopped, still lacking 2 weapons and 3 ephemeras, deciding to just buy liches with items that I am lacking.

If played as intended RJ is a total flop from the beginning. The only fun is to fight with AW but this is clearly not their initial idea.
Wasting tons of clips with turrets to take down stupid over armored ships is not fun at all.
Forgetting to scrap stuff losing the loot is not fun at all.
Playing with tons of bugs is not fun a t all.
Repeating over and over again long boring missions to get insane amount of resources to repair useless weapons is not fun at all.
Nerfing something later instead to make to implement decent design it's a really cheap action.

With this update (and the even more useless previous one with liches)DE shoot itself in the foot...

[Jodyxe]

引用自 saporob：

With this update DE shoot itself in the foot...

Poor DE has no feet left, I am afraid :)

[Forza Piadina]

引用自 Jodyxe：

引用自 saporob：

With this update DE shoot itself in the foot...

Poor DE has no feet left, I am afraid :)

Metaphorically speaking...

[Jodyxe]

引用自 Rivers：

How are people here talking about having maxed ships and struggling on veil?

Would you be so kind and cite the exact message of someone here struggling on veil, please?

[Forza Piadina]

引用自 Rivers：

How are people here talking about having maxed ships and struggling on veil? Easy soloable content without crazy avionics.

My ship can get in and out of danger in a second, just build a decent engine. you struggle to repel boarders? like what? vector maneuver back and that makes the capsules line up for you.

How are you even crying about the damage when I 1/2 shot veil enemies, and even when I was joining public lobbies, everyone was doing the same.

My ship is not even maxed since I need some avionics and parts but I never had a hull breach on veil while running full speed into swarms of enemies and crewships.

Just slingshot into the crewship and teleport back with omni tool, focus the terminal instead of killing every enemy on the crewship.

DE faces a serious issue that is the community is super casual, they cant make something harder because so many people cry like its the end of the world.

Legit learn to play and learn how to mod, jesus christ.

Soloable or not doesn't make the game fun to play, actually it makes even worse because it removes all coop fun and it makes the game 100% grind based without any skills needed to play. Pratically if we had an hope for a decent "endgame", now it's gone forever. Happy grinding, i pass, i don't wanna be the 26,000,001...

[Katzh]

Now imagine playing railjack on console lmao.

[Jodyxe]

引用自 Rivers：

Very good. Let me educate you in this case.

引用自 Rivers：

引用自 Jodyxe：

My railjack is maxed out. And nothing helps against:

1. Endless healing loop that fighters enter from time to time;
2. Crew ships requiring extra actions to be taken down;
3. Being overwhelmed with swarn of fighters.

Neither tactical or battle avionics, nor intrinsics skills can help with these 3 main issues.

Not to mention additional:

1. Loot being scattered around, only AW users can efficiently gather it;
2. Pontless animations during every single interaction with every single module of the railjack wasting your time;

Flying in Veil with Railjack feels painful, and flyinf on Eart-Saturn - pointless.

Oh, and, btw, those weapon and equipment salvage drops are just kuva lich weapons 2.0.

In this message I address particular issues that cannot be dealt with at all, no matter what player is doing:
1. The one cannot stop healing loop at any given moment,
2. And cannot disable crew ship with the same gun as fighters were disabled with,
3. And cannot deal with fighters overwhelming the railjack.

There are simply NO SOLUTIONS to these particular issues, first of which being, most likely, in-game bug, second of which being uncomfortable game mechanics, and third of which being the lack of weaponry and decent crowd control abilities. Now you can argue that we can PREVENT all these issues, but preventing does not mean dealing with them. It is the same as running away from the problem instead of solving it. Healing loop is a problem, additional steps to disable crew ship is an issue (because it is not rewarding at all and not so clearly explained) and enemy swarm is just stupid.

Now, I can invite you to my ship, however I imagine you would kindly decline my invitation, and demonstrate you were and how did I get all my top tier MK3 equipment, shedu parts and avionics from, being the captain and pilot 99% of the time just to prove you that I am, in fact, well aware of how to play the game and this mode in particular. But I feel that there is no need in such time investment. However I will continue educating you, the person who blamed others of lack of knowledge, further more:

引用自 Rivers：

How are you even crying about the damage when I 1/2 shot veil enemies, and even when I was joining public lobbies, everyone was doing the same

There are multiple messages already stating to be able to shoot down veil enemies with ease, however that was not concern at all, but the time spent and lack of comfort during execution of such process. Whereas, compared to same actions executed with archwing, railjack simply pales, failing to execute same mission with same or lesser effort. And effort, the amount of which to be exact, is very important in something that is tend and intended to be repeated over, and over, and over, and over again. Human intelligence is tend to create shortcuts in order to solve same issues with lesser effort. Therefore archwing acts as this exact shortcut in this particular situation.

引用自 Rivers：

ust slingshot into the crewship and teleport back with omni tool, focus the terminal instead of killing every enemy on the crewship.

I would strongly advice to kill all members of the crew ship before disabling, what appears to be a reactor but not the terminal, the ship simply because you can meet with 80-90 lvl grineer units on board of crew ships, and grineer being the most rewarding faction, experience wise, in the game will reward you with more intrinsics at the end of the mission, since it is replaced affinity in this particular game mode and becoming crucial point of railjack progression. Not no mention there is no fast and comfortable way for the pilot to perform such action as slingshot, and requires additional time, animation and effort, something that I did already address. And if you would argue for additional player to perform such actions - that is touching the matter of crew play, issues of which I also addressed earlier.

No one argues here that Railjack experience is boring, stupid, pointless and unrewarding. Majority of people in this thread have already spent significant amount of time playing this game mode, reaching almost the very top of what this game mode has to offer. In addition to that there is not a single complaint about this mode being wrong or pointless, but rather it being broken and not finished. Therefore we expressing our concern regarding this poor state of the game mode with its issues that were carefully picked.

[Jodyxe]

引用自 Katzh：

Now imagine playing railjack on console lmao.

Rank 10 gunnery is a must have there I would argue!

[Unslaadahsil]

DE has for a long time now declared themselves against "1 button win" situations. They changed several frames to do so, oftentimes nerfing great farming possibilities for the sake of elongating gameplay. One example that immediately comes to mind is Banshee, they changed her so that pressing 4 and going to make yourself a sandwich could no longer be done.

Now, this can be good or bad depending on who you ask. But either way it's unreasonable to think there will ever be a "1 button win" on Railjack when DE is so expressively against such things.

[Jodyxe]

引用自 Jodyxe：

Haven't seen titanium...as a mission reward

You may disregard this statement as I just received 750 titanium as a mission reward in Veil.

[PhotriusPyrelus]

引用自 Jodyxe：

1. Loot radar - Is very very hard to implement in this mode. In archwing it was impossible for me to find that little mod that I saw on the map, but could not see in the space around. The reason for that is true 3 dimensional experience/space with items that you cannot easily highlight on 2 dimensional map. I doubt we will get any additions to this part, but at least items are easily noticeable from far away;

Like I said in another thread, all we need for loot radar is something we can toggle on or off at the tactics screen that puts a green triangle or something (like how it puts red diamonds around enemies) around loot within, like, 2 km of the railjack. It needs to be able to be turned off because the visual clutter with loot and 20 fighters might be a bit too much.

引用自 Jodyxe：

1. RNG - *sigh*, there is no escape from that in this game, I believe. It adds some kind of thrill in the beginning, but in the long term it leaves very bad taste. I loved liches and farmed the hell out of them, but then I stopped, still lacking 2 weapons and 3 ephemeras, deciding to just buy liches with items that I am lacking.

The thing is there's different kinds of RNG. Warframe has always been loaded with it (getting the actual thing you want to drop [still can't get Khora...or Harrow]), but this new kind (variation in the actual thing you want) is gross and I hate it. Leave that crap to Destiny and Borderlands. Lavan and Vidar weapons already have absurdly low drop rates, there's really no need to make some of them better than others.

引用自 saporob：

If played as intended RJ is a total flop from the beginning. The only fun is to fight with AW but this is clearly not their initial idea.
Wasting tons of clips with turrets to take down stupid over armored ships is not fun at all.
Forgetting to scrap stuff losing the loot is not fun at all.
Playing with tons of bugs is not fun a t all.
Repeating over and over again long boring missions to get insane amount of resources to repair useless weapons is not fun at all.
Nerfing something later instead to make to implement decent design it's a really cheap action.

With this update (and the even more useless previous one with liches)DE shoot itself in the foot...

I've been having fun since day 1. When it was a buggy, almost unplayable mess. It was still fun. As intended. I hate using AW in it, and it bugs me to see people using AW outside getting from ship to objective or crewship, or looting after the mission.

If you're "wasting tons of clips", you're either shooting the crewship like a dumb, or using lower level weapons than the content demands. Like trying to take a mk-1 braton into a Sortie.

Forgetting to refine doesn't matter any more; they patched it to automatically be added to the end of mission rewards. You miss out on the 20% (or 30% with Rank 9 Engineer) refining bonus, but that's pretty minor. I've got like, 40k of everything but pustules and no real use for any of it.

Most of the bugs are fixed. Infini-healing fighters are about the only major bug left.

"Repeating over and over again long boring missions...", so, basically "playing Warframe". Or is it the length you have a problem with? Guess you never do Endless missions.

"...to get insane amount of resources" Remember that hammer that costs 30,000 cryotic? And the Ephemera that costs 20,000? And all the stuff that costs relatively (to how much drops on the average mission) huge amounts of oxium and polymers? Yeah, Warframe has always been about grinding "insane amount of resources".

[Forza Piadina]

引用自 PhotriusPyrelus：

引用自 Jodyxe：

1. Loot radar - Is very very hard to implement in this mode. In archwing it was impossible for me to find that little mod that I saw on the map, but could not see in the space around. The reason for that is true 3 dimensional experience/space with items that you cannot easily highlight on 2 dimensional map. I doubt we will get any additions to this part, but at least items are easily noticeable from far away;

Like I said in another thread, all we need for loot radar is something we can toggle on or off at the tactics screen that puts a green triangle or something (like how it puts red diamonds around enemies) around loot within, like, 2 km of the railjack. It needs to be able to be turned off because the visual clutter with loot and 20 fighters might be a bit too much.

引用自 Jodyxe：

1. RNG - *sigh*, there is no escape from that in this game, I believe. It adds some kind of thrill in the beginning, but in the long term it leaves very bad taste. I loved liches and farmed the hell out of them, but then I stopped, still lacking 2 weapons and 3 ephemeras, deciding to just buy liches with items that I am lacking.

The thing is there's different kinds of RNG. Warframe has always been loaded with it (getting the actual thing you want to drop [still can't get Khora...or Harrow]), but this new kind (variation in the actual thing you want) is gross and I hate it. Leave that crap to Destiny and Borderlands. Lavan and Vidar weapons already have absurdly low drop rates, there's really no need to make some of them better than others.

引用自 saporob：

If played as intended RJ is a total flop from the beginning. The only fun is to fight with AW but this is clearly not their initial idea.
Wasting tons of clips with turrets to take down stupid over armored ships is not fun at all.
Forgetting to scrap stuff losing the loot is not fun at all.
Playing with tons of bugs is not fun a t all.
Repeating over and over again long boring missions to get insane amount of resources to repair useless weapons is not fun at all.
Nerfing something later instead to make to implement decent design it's a really cheap action.

With this update (and the even more useless previous one with liches)DE shoot itself in the foot...

I've been having fun since day 1. When it was a buggy, almost unplayable mess. It was still fun. As intended. I hate using AW in it, and it bugs me to see people using AW outside getting from ship to objective or crewship, or looting after the mission.

If you're "wasting tons of clips", you're either shooting the crewship like a dumb, or using lower level weapons than the content demands. Like trying to take a mk-1 braton into a Sortie.

Forgetting to refine doesn't matter any more; they patched it to automatically be added to the end of mission rewards. You miss out on the 20% (or 30% with Rank 9 Engineer) refining bonus, but that's pretty minor. I've got like, 40k of everything but pustules and no real use for any of it.

Most of the bugs are fixed. Infini-healing fighters are about the only major bug left.

"Repeating over and over again long boring missions...", so, basically "playing Warframe". Or is it the length you have a problem with? Guess you never do Endless missions.

"...to get insane amount of resources" Remember that hammer that costs 30,000 cryotic? And the Ephemera that costs 20,000? And all the stuff that costs relatively (to how much drops on the average mission) huge amounts of oxium and polymers? Yeah, Warframe has always been about grinding "insane amount of resources".

Yes i already know how it works on WF:
If someone says black, someone else says white.
If someone writes no, another guy will write yes...
It's the only endgame you have in this game...

i can only say how this game can be tested when you can't see a fk when the ram is on?

[Shazbot!]

It's amusing how many problems in this thread can be solved by particle ram, truly the best avionic.

[PhotriusPyrelus]

引用自 saporob：

Yes i already know how it works on WF:
If someone says black, someone else says white.
If someone writes no, another guy will write yes...

Try engaging the points. Oh wait, you can't because what I said is true. <3