How useful is [Hunters Munitions] on 100% CC weapons REALLY?

[Silverbird]

The bleed DoT is 35% x 7 ticks = 235%
It only happens 30% of the time though, even with 100% CC = 70.5%

Basically a 70.5% elemental mod that inflicts only true damage that bypasses shields/armor.

If you aren't running ♥♥♥♥♥♥ pubs, you'll have 4xCP anyways, so it won't really bypass anything VS grineer...
and against corpus, you have 100% base + 70.5% shield ignore, so you're gonna be damaging the shield a fair amount anyways? Even if you focus your build ENTIRELY on [Hunters Munitions].

So how useful is it really? My build options are as follows with a 114% CC Stradavar:

Hunters-focused: 22k base + 16k True 38kDPS
Blend with [primed cryo rounds]: 39k base + 10k True 49kDPS
No Hunters Munitions: 59.5K DPS


Thats around 35% damage loss for maximizing shield-ignoring slash proc damage (so that it cold have any possibility to kill through shields before shields are 90% gone in the first place!).

Time to go crunch numberes on corpus/orokin shield stats to see if it's really worth the hassle. Does anyone have experience with the mod in endgame situations like this to save me the trouble?

[Walrus-Sama]

Hunter Muntions is a fantastic mod. It can save weapons that would otherwise fall behind.
It won't work on every weapon, but it is best on Crit weapons with poor status chance.

The Corinth is a good example. It's a crit chotgun with poor status for it's main fire. It struggles vs high level armor normally. But with Hunter Muntions (and headshots) it can kill lvl 130 Corrupted Heavy Grineer in around 3 headshots.

It's is also very good on Bows when paired with Viral. Makes just about any crit bow still good vs Armor. It's monsterous on the Lenz or even Ivara's Artemis Bow.

[Silverbird]

Also making sure I don't derp and miss out a key component in calculating Hunters Munition's slash DoT.
Elemental mods are NOT counted in the calculation for how much dmg the slash procs do, correct? Only base (dmg%, multi, CC, CD, Fire rate) damage?

[Walrus-Sama]

Originally posted by Silverbird:

Also making sure I don't derp and miss out a key component in calculating Hunters Munition's slash DoT.
Elemental mods are NOT counted in the calculation for how much dmg the slash procs do, correct? Only base (dmg%, multi, CC, CD, Fire rate) damage?

Wrong. It's full damage dude.

[Silverbird]

Originally posted by Walrus-Sama:

Originally posted by Silverbird:

Also making sure I don't derp and miss out a key component in calculating Hunters Munition's slash DoT.
Elemental mods are NOT counted in the calculation for how much dmg the slash procs do, correct? Only base (dmg%, multi, CC, CD, Fire rate) damage?

Wrong. It's full damage dude.

This entire reddit thread would like to say otherwise:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/8a9k2f/do_hunter_munitions_procs_get_increased_by/
its base damage and things that scale base damage (ie: not IPS/elemental mods)

[Walrus-Sama]

Originally posted by Silverbird:

Originally posted by Walrus-Sama:

Wrong. It's full damage dude.

This entire reddit thread would like to say otherwise:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/8a9k2f/do_hunter_munitions_procs_get_increased_by/
its base damage and things that scale base damage (ie: not IPS/elemental mods)

That entire thread is wrong.

It's the total damage of the weapon. All damage mods included.

A 100000 damage Sniper shot will tick 35000 Slash per tick.

[Silverbird]

Originally posted by Walrus-Sama:

Originally posted by Silverbird:

This entire reddit thread would like to say otherwise:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/8a9k2f/do_hunter_munitions_procs_get_increased_by/
its base damage and things that scale base damage (ie: not IPS/elemental mods)

That entire thread is wrong.

It's the total damage of the weapon. All damage mods included.

A 100000 damage Sniper shot will tick 35000 Slash per tick.

I'll have to test it myself then I guess x.x

[Sceles]

The idea with Hunter Munitions is that you take a weapon that has high crit chance and high disposition and use a riven that has crit chance and multishot to make it shoot 4-5 rounds each shot with 100% chance to crit.

[Walrus-Sama]

Originally posted by Sceles:

The idea with Hunter Munitions is that you take a weapon that has high crit chance and high disposition and use a riven that has crit chance and multishot to make it shoot 4-5 rounds each shot with 100% chance to crit.

Rivens are not required for HM to be good. Rivens are just overkill.

[Me]

Crit chance and damage isn't all that matters. The most important aspect of Hunter Munition is honestly rate of fire.

It's so so on single fire weapons. On rapid fire weapons like the Baza, it is absolutely incredible.

[Walrus-Sama]

Originally posted by Me:

Crit chance and damage isn't all that matters. The most important aspect of Hunter Munition is honestly rate of fire.

It's so so on single fire weapons. On rapid fire weapons like the Baza, it is absolutely incredible.

It helps on Single Fire to stack as much Multishot as you can to increase chance of proc.

[Spook]

if you assume that you're at all times in a squad of four people with corrosive projection, then yes, suddenly other options whose intended purpose are to deal with or bypass armor stop being particularly compelling.

[peppermint hollows]

Originally posted by Spook:

if you assume that you're at all times in a squad of four people with corrosive projection, then yes, suddenly other options whose intended purpose are to deal with or bypass armor stop being particularly compelling.

The funny thing, though, is that Slash deals +25% extra damage against Cloned Flesh, which is the health type Grineer have when fully stripped of their armour. On top of that, if you're running Viral (which you honestly should with HM builds, because viral effectively doubles the damage of slash procs), you're also going to get an additional +75% extra damage. So it's true you aren't bypassing armour at this point, but you at least still get significant bonus damage.

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

Your math also has a minor flaw. Hunter Munitions applies Critical Slash not base Slash.

Although yes, Slash is only 35% of the weapon's base damage, and thus can only be raised by mods that add raw damage, Critical Slash is multiplied by your critical damage.

To give an example, say your weapon has 100 damage and 2x crit damage, a normal Slash proc will deal 35 per tick, but a Critical Slash will deal 70.

I tested to make sure, and that's how Hunter Munitions works.

[Spook]

Originally posted by StrawberryPi:

The funny thing, though, is that Slash deals +25% extra damage against Cloned Flesh, which is the health type Grineer have when fully stripped of their armour. On top of that, if you're running Viral (which you honestly should with HM builds, because viral effectively doubles the damage of slash procs), you're also going to get an additional +75% extra damage. So it's true you aren't bypassing armour at this point, but you at least still get significant bonus damage.

One: Slash procs, bafflingly, do not actually DEAL slash damage. They deal true damage. Because of this, I don't think slash procs themselves actually have any bonus against the cloned flesh type, or any other health type. It's possible that I'm wrong on this, since the mechanics are so poorly explained and pretty much just guessed out by the playerbase.

Two: viral damage being good against cloned flesh has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not you're using hunter munitions. It's just, good against cloned flesh. The interaction of its status proc effectively "doubling" damage of slash procs is in fact true of its relation with all forms of damage. It doubles everything the same way. The reason it's popular with slash procs is again, really only because of the armor/shield bypass; viral comboes well with everything, but from the slash proc side of things, viral is one of the only options for making the slash procs better.

edit: here's a fun fact for something that ACTUALLY has a very unique/compelling interaction with sources of slash procs: increased faction damage mods apply their multiplier twice, once to the calculation of the base damage and then again to the slash proc itself. In other words, a primed bane mod (sadly only rifles have that option) multiplies the slash proc damage by 2.4. Of note, this is not exclusive to slash, it's true of any DoT proc. I've heard it even applies the multiplier three times for gas, because programming is hard.

what's really funny is that this exact problem was specifically patched for melee stealth multipliers, but the faction damage double/triple dipping is still in the game and some of the developers even know and acknowledge it

[No_Quarter]

If your weapon can one-shot or two-shot enemies then you lose with Hunter Munitions.
But if you need multiple shots to defeat your enemies, multiple shots and few seconds, then Hunter Munitions will make heay target go down way faster.

which can be confirmed by testing, up to lvl 40 for most targets HM is a waste. After that you kinda wanna have it on your crit based weapon

that is it, no math needed, go to simulacrum and test how many shots and how much time you need to defeat lvl 100+ heavy targets with and without HM.
Because in this game DPS is not top stat you care about. It is one of them but maxing out DPS will not get you anywhere