Warframe

Warframe

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Venrez 2018 年 5 月 8 日 上午 2:22
Warframe Plotholes, Universe Lore and General Questions
I thoroughly enjoy reading up on the Lore of games, even with huge intergalactic sized plotholes such as Warframe.

However, there are many questions that keep coming up yet are entirely unanswered anywhere within the game or even on the Wiki.

I'd just like to know, if there is any explanation at all -

What colonies?

Where do the 'normal' Human sort of civilians in the Warframe Universe actually live? In what numbers? People seem to throw numbers around like its nothing. A million here. A billion there. Trillions across the Solar System.

Where? Where are the people?

I understand the game is not focused around showing any of them given we are deployed on missions against "military" targets of the Grineer and Corpus for the most part, but where are the actual civilians?

- - -

Other massive plot holes I havent seen explained anywhere.

All of which I would be happy to let slide if we were told this takes place in some ficticious made-up Star System elsewhere in the future. But no, we are told it happens in Sol, on the Worlds we know exist.

- How are many of the planets the way they are, without obvious Orokin settlement or mass terraforming, let alone the fact we are consistently told Humans were mostly confined to Earth and Luna until it "mysteriously" became uninhabitable and we are met with the "present day" of trillions of Humans in space somehow?

How and Why is almost all plant and animal species in existence completely alien? Hyekka? Kubrow? Those Birds and Fox-Mouse things on Earth? Fish monsters on Uranus? Land-Manta-Rays on Mars? Odd plants everywhere? Rubedo, Argon Crystals, Morphics?

Many completely uninhabitable-to-natural-life worlds such as Europa, Venus and Ceres have unseen but heard animal audio in the distance.

What the hell happened to absolutely everything on Earth?

Why is Mercury not a lava-world with the side facing the Sun on fire during the 'Day'? Easy option for a unique tileset environment.

What fractured and broke the Moon?

How does Venus, Europa and several other completely frozen or unsuitable worlds have open snowy landscapes that look rather mild and habitable?

How is Mars a completely Earth-like red desert world with living plant life, seemingly stone-age rock carved archaelogical "cities" and flowing Water? If it were actually the case it'd be over-grown planet-wide by arid type grass within months and cease to be a desert.

How is Uranus an Ocean world? It is a gas giant.

How does anything exist on or near Jupiter with its -enormous- gravitational pull? Even with the most fancy of Sci-fi devices you'd be crushed to death instantly going outside even on those Corpus platforms. There is no apparent energy shielding.

- Grineer as a society would not work. At all. I refuse to believe they are all Clones.

You cannot have an entire society, even if purpose made for war and nothing but war, if everyone is technically the same person. There would be infighting absolutely everywhere if everyone was technically the same person but one is a basic Soldier and the other is a Captain, or a Leader of any sort.

- I refuse to believe this entire game takes place in the Sol System. Our natural Solar System.

How do the Corpus -and- Grineer both have massive capital ships that rival even the largest ones seen in other fiction universes? Most Corpus ships and Grineer Galleons seem to be in excess of 10km long and maybe 5km wide if you roughly gauge most maps running "corner to corner".

Where are these built? How? You would need an astronomical amount of resources for even ONE of these ships and yet we see them destroyed on a daily basis.

- I cannot believe interstellar "warp" tech doesnt exist. Everything in the game suggests it does, but we're told it does not.

Humans must exist and have fully colonized multiple systems for even half of the stuff we see ingame to plausibly exist or occur.

Trillions of unseen Civilians in unseen habitats. The industry required by both Grineer and Corpus to sustain their forces. The average tech level of people in this game universe. Laser beams. Portals.

- The Void.

Just what. We can clearly see that there is empty space beyond the edge of our Solar System, but not an extra-dimensional "Void" that apparently changes physics, drives people mad and is otherwise lethal or dangerous.

Why is the Solar System surrounded by extra-dimensional space? Why does it affect physical matter when you're in there? What is 'it'?

Also, the Orokin clearly have functional teleporters. So do the Grineer and Corpus. This goes back to an earlier point. If we have teleporters, we have other worlds and systems. Easily.

- Why does absolutely everything in the game look so completely alien?

All the Warframes look like inhuman gelatinous globs of somehow "sharp edged" Latex. Yes I have done most of the story and I know the 'truth' of how they function, but that doesnt explain how they look.

Everything Grineer looks straight out of the 'Bad guys of Asian Anime' design. Nothing is logical about the physical construction of much of their equipment. It is described as being machine-stamped and produced in bulk. Nothing about weird bubbles, rounded surfaces and individually-modified-to-suit-cybernetics is conducive to mass production.

Cetus people are nothing but semi-futuristic-but-also-medieval Japanese Whalers and Fishermen with god awful hats. They're also a sickly greenish yellowy baige color that isnt quite actual Caucasian or Asian in tone.

Sentients, despite being 'Robotic', look absolutely nothing like the part. They appear completely alien and illogical in design. Almost fish-like plants. Bizzare.

Corpus are the only vaguely Human looking faction in the game. Even then their robots are very odd and impractical by design AND their signature helmets.

The Tenno are described as both being extremely rare, few and far between - yet we are also told of Tenno settlements, entire structures built by them and thus a formed society. What? Where? How? The Relays and Dojo's and more. Mass-producing Warframes. New Tenno designs that arent of Orokin quality, but still vastly superior to everything the other factions wield, also suggests a Scientific and Governmental body for such a society.

For all these people, Corpus, Grineer, Tenno, clones or synthetics or not, someone has to produce food in bulk too. Where?

< Potential Spoiler >

If Natah, The Lotus, is technically a Sentient - why does she look otherwise completely human with a weird helmet? Especially when all the other Sentient look like fish-plant bone monsters that arent even remotely robotic.

- - -

Long post but yeah. The game does -nothing- to explain any of this.

- - -

Where the hell does the Lotus and Tenno get off suggesting the Tenno "fight for Balance" between 3, technically 4 factions that via Cloning, Robotics or other means, can technically continue the fight forever?

If they actually wanted Balance they would achieve an outcome. Not prolong the current apparent stalemate between all factions.
最後修改者:Venrez; 2018 年 5 月 8 日 上午 2:24
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目前顯示第 1-15 則留言,共 28
Nemund 2018 年 5 月 8 日 上午 2:35 
You obviously didn't read the lore or you would have known that there was mass terraforming.
Also it's not 200 years in the future, the weird looking dinosaurs say hello.
Oh no, future people don't exactly match a contempary phenotype!
And 'balance' is about keeping any of the factions from winning, because one of them having supreme control would be very bad.

So um.... yeah.
It really sounds like you haven't actually thought properly about this and have just cherry picked ideas which don't match how you would do it without exploring in your head how these concepts would work.
Ghin 2018 年 5 月 8 日 上午 2:54 
Everyone in the game is human. The Orokin are humans, Corpus are humans (obviously their robots arent), and Grineer are cloned humans. Only the Sentients are non-human, and they are artificial life created by humans. The Orokin created the Grineer as a slave race to do mining, construction, etc. It's pretty obvious that they're not all the same person. If you do Simaris's scan missions, you can unlock some lore.

The Orokin did pretty much all the stuff you're talking about. They separated themselves from humanity and were incredibly advanced. They created the warframes, all the weird new life, the infestation, etc. and were the ones who broke the moon and terraformed all the planets.

The lore is all in the game if you look. If you go into the codex cephalon fragments and hover your mouse over parts of the image, you can hear some audio clips. Listening to Ordis's story will clear up some of it for you.
最後修改者:Ghin; 2018 年 5 月 8 日 上午 2:56
N0P3 2018 年 5 月 8 日 上午 2:59 
If I'm not mistaken, the biped with opposable thumbs are in packs for numerous reasons; mostly, the homosapien was farmed and turned into what has become the Grineer. Some fought against assimilation while others fled to anywhere they could hence scattered remnants or pockets of society a.k.a. the colonies. The general story line implies the Orokin were slavers whom come across the Earth and its inhabitants and decided we'd make great pets.

That pretty much, loosely sums up what I've gotten out of the story; the plot is fairly deep while the atmosphere essentially entertains the "too many chiefs, not enough indians" chaotic pathway; in realistics terms chaos would occur and greed manifestation for numerous reasons would dictate greatly.
Thryn 2018 年 5 月 8 日 上午 3:14 
Originally Warframe technically follows on much MUCH later from a game they made called Dark Sector, which features Hayden Tenno with the first "frame" a proto-Excalibur (a skin for Excalibur replicates it, and also a skin for the Glaive replicates his) and a proto-Nyx.

However as they've released more lore, it's looking more and more likely they're moving away from that origin point, although it's worth noting the Orokin era would be considered future from here AND we're far ahead of the Orokin era in game.

As for some of your questions:

Earth being uninhabitable/weird creatures? The infestation that causes the Infested, which spread during the Orokin era, with signs pointing to it being a weapon they tried to make against Sentients that backfired, devoured and still controls most the planet (which is why we keep getting boil missions on the Plains)

Mercury is probably either a scifi global shield copout or simply that we avoid that side of the planet during the day.

Grineer absolutely can work as a society - clones does not mean every single grineer off all types is from the same single genetic subject. The different types of Grineer we encounter is the minimum number of subjects to clone from, with it being highly likely every additional variant within is a further clone base. Also presuming they load them with memories, you'd aim for functionality and obedience over personality in your base foot soldiers. The higher tiers of Grineer command do however appear to not be clones, or at least not in the same way. Prior to the Queens reveal, we've had the various general etc that are significantly different in looks, functionality and personality to suggest either a different style of cloning and experimentation or actual offspring.

Sentients - they were designed as bio-organic self evolving machines, with a purpose specifically to travel to and colonise another solar system and it backfired spectacularly, causing the Orokin to weaponise the Tenno. It would appear they've retained the long range travel or refined it, and the odd shapes may be a requirement for surviving travelling in the Void.

Warframe designs - they were originally designed to be the spearhead of Orokin troops against the Sentients, often inspired by elements or ancient myths/legends. Why wouldn't you want something not quite human looking to inspire and/or terrify the populace into remaining obedient?

Tenno society - meet why Lotus is referred to as Spacemom. She's been guiding the Tenno since the Orokin era, and given her history and familiarity with all things Tenno it's not at all far fetched she's the main one driving all those elements. Note Tenno also don't appear to age (see Harrow's quest for one example) and many went out and interferred with human society post Orokin (Red Veil, Inaros etc)

Natah? The entire point was being a Sentient spy to overthrow the Orokin, and given the Sentients were made to adapt and evolve by the Orokin, it's easy to assume she was made in that form specifically for that purpose.


TL:DR - Don't get me wrong there's still plenty of plotholes, but a lot of this is covered, either by in game quests or by the lore on the Codex entries of the various frames (if you haven't checked those out, you might find them interesting for random extra info)
Tesper 2018 年 5 月 8 日 上午 4:34 
What We Know Warframe Lore: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTTHakyFGvV0x4-ngF7nITjj_Dg7xJ1OP


Here, a playlist that answers 99% of your questions
1. The Moon broke because of the force of it being dropped out of the Void without doing anything properly. It’s why we exploded all that crap and the moon has constant quakes. Remember?

2. You assume a society of clones would all have the same personalities. This isn’t Star Wars. Every Grineer is physically the same, but you can’t create perfect neurological cloning. So they’re conditioned and brainwashed into absolute servitutde for the Queens.
Ghost 2018 年 5 月 8 日 上午 5:43 
Warframe lore has nothing do to with Dark Sector. This is a well-known fact for years.
anaphylactic god 2018 年 5 月 8 日 上午 8:52 
lol, lore is bad and no one care about it.
thinking about it will lead you nowhere.
[R] Nerva 2018 年 5 月 8 日 上午 8:56 
引用自 Venrez
I'd just like to know, if there is any explanation at all -

What colonies?

Where do the 'normal' Human sort of civilians in the Warframe Universe actually live? In what numbers? People seem to throw numbers around like its nothing. A million here. A billion there. Trillions across the Solar System.

Where? Where are the people?

I understand the game is not focused around showing any of them given we are deployed on missions against "military" targets of the Grineer and Corpus for the most part, but where are the actual civilians?
You get to see 'normal' humans in the form of the Ostrons in Cetus and the Myconans in The Glast Gambit. They're referenced in Sands of Inaros, too - there was a culture of sand-worshippers on Mars before the Grineer wiped them out. Cultures of unaffiliated humans exist, often descended from Orokin servant-colonies, all over the Origin system.

Even the Grineer and Corpus have civilian populations, in a sense. You can see Grineer 'civilians' on Ceres and Sedna, in the form of Drudges - menial workers that maintain Grineer shipyards. You can also see Grineer scientists in Uranus; they occupy the pods on the walls, hooked directly into data-processing units. It's easiest to see them in the new Grineer Sealab Captura scene from Sanctuary Onslaught.

How are many of the planets the way they are, without obvious Orokin settlement or mass terraforming, let alone the fact we are consistently told Humans were mostly confined to Earth and Luna until it "mysteriously" became uninhabitable and we are met with the "present day" of trillions of Humans in space somehow?
Orokin settlement and mass terraforming are exactly why most of the planets are the way they are. In the skybox of outdoor Venus maps, you can even spot an Orokin-built Terraforming tower, and there's a map tile that consists of a suspended walkway above some partially-buried Orokin structures that the Corpus are excavating.

The Orokin were in no means confined to Earth and Lua - where were you told that? The Orokin's central authority were on Earth and Lua, but their reach extended all over the System. In Sands of Inaros, Inaros is consistently referred to as a "warrior of the golden skymen" - the Orokin. Distinctly Orokin structures, as mentioned before, can be found on Venus and even Pluto.

How and Why is almost all plant and animal species in existence completely alien? Hyekka? Kubrow? Those Birds and Fox-Mouse things on Earth? Fish monsters on Uranus? Land-Manta-Rays on Mars? Odd plants everywhere? Rubedo, Argon Crystals, Morphics?

Many completely uninhabitable-to-natural-life worlds such as Europa, Venus and Ceres have unseen but heard animal audio in the distance.
Hyekka are the product of Grineer applying their cloning technology to Kavats, with predictable results. Kavats and Kubrow are the products of Orokin-era genetic engineering to create companion, service, and military animals. Kavats, in particular, are created to be a natural predator of the Infestation, capable of eating Infestation without becoming Infested themselves (this is the reason why the Grineer breed Hyekka, as well.)

Condrocs, Kuaka, and most of the life on the Plains of Eidolon were modified by the Unum. Details of it are explained in the secret messages of the Ghoul Journal Fragments.

Have to split this post into multiples...
[R] Nerva 2018 年 5 月 8 日 上午 8:57 
What the hell happened to absolutely everything on Earth?
Whoo boy - short question, kinda huge answer.

You know those ghostly white trees you see all over Lua, which serve as data- and energy-transfer cables? Y'know, the ones you see in your Orbiter as well? Those are arboriforms; trees genetically engineered to become some kind of optical and power cable. Orokin technology is a seamless blend of hard technology and organic biotech produced by genetic modification, as seen by the flesh of the Unum's tower taken from the plates that they harvest from its surface. These arboriforms serve this organic hypertech as a nervous and circulatory system.

Well, Earth used to be the center of the Orokin Empire. But it was also a polluted mess. Most of its natural species had died out. As The Silver Grove shows, one of the Orokin's projects was to restore Earth's 'natural' beauty, so they began re-terraforming the planet and seeding it with life, including trees bred from Orokin arboriforms. This had the unfortunate side effect of providing the forests of Earth with a "nervous system" that Sylvana accidentally wound up Transferring her consciousness into, creating the Silver Grove and leading to the forests growing wildly out of control.

Why is Mercury not a lava-world with the side facing the Sun on fire during the 'Day'? Easy option for a unique tileset environment.
Ever notice that almost all missions on Mercury are either within starships or underground? This is why. The surface of Mercury is largely uninhabitable, but underground, it's extensively terraformed by the Orokin and later Grineer efforts. In real life, Mercury's sunless side is as frigid-cold as its sunward side is molten-hot.

What fractured and broke the Moon?
Being shoved into the Void. Remember those pendula devices you had to disable in The Second Dream? Those, coupled with giant Orokin rings that surround the Moon, were what held the Moon stable within the Void. Unlike the Void towers, which are pristine because they were engineered to be put into the Void, the Moon was almost jury-rigged to be Void-capable. Some fracturing and settling resulted.

How does Venus, Europa and several other completely frozen or unsuitable worlds have open snowy landscapes that look rather mild and habitable?

How is Mars a completely Earth-like red desert world with living plant life, seemingly stone-age rock carved archaelogical "cities" and flowing Water? If it were actually the case it'd be over-grown planet-wide by arid type grass within months and cease to be a desert.
Again, Orokin terraforming. It's everywhere. In the time of the Orokin Empire, these worlds were probably entirely temperate. It's only now that the terraforming is no longer being maintained that it's starting to fail, and natural climatological processes are beginning to reassert themselves, turning Venus into a snow planet and Mars into a desert.

The carved structures on Mars were produced by the sand-worshipper society that used to live there, before the Grineer arrived and wiped them out. Baro Ki'teer (as per Sands of Inaros) is the last survivor of their culture.

How is Uranus an Ocean world? It is a gas giant.
Those oceans aren't water - they're liquid methane. Again, Orokin Terraforming's everywhere, and in the 'underwater' segments of Uranus, you can find the Orokin structures responsible.

How does anything exist on or near Jupiter with its -enormous- gravitational pull? Even with the most fancy of Sci-fi devices you'd be crushed to death instantly going outside even on those Corpus platforms. There is no apparent energy shielding.
Those Corpus platforms aren't deep within the atmosphere of Jupiter. They're actually just barely occupying the cloud layer, siphoning and refining gases for Corpus use. Also, just because there's no apparent energy shielding doesn't mean their isn't any - the Corpus are the most technologically advanced faction outside of the Orokin in this setting, and the Orokin have demonstrated the ability to maintain structures intact in an environment (the void) where the laws of physics themselves fail. The Orokin understand enough about quantum mechanics that they can use quantum superposition to store things in Relics, as per Ordis's description of relics when you obtain the Relic segment for your Orbiter.

I don't think you understand just how far their scientific achievement extends.

- Grineer as a society would not work. At all. I refuse to believe they are all Clones.

You cannot have an entire society, even if purpose made for war and nothing but war, if everyone is technically the same person. There would be infighting absolutely everywhere if everyone was technically the same person but one is a basic Soldier and the other is a Captain, or a Leader of any sort.
Whoo boy, gonna be another long answer here.

Yes, the Grineer are clones. But they're bad clones. Each and every Grineer that exists is a flawed attempt to reproduce Orokin-era genetic engineering technology. That's why they've all got skin like leather and faces like potatoes, among all the rampant organ failure and birth defects that necessitates that they all be cybernetically augmented just to continue surviving.

There's little infighting because of a rigid heirarchy, brutal enforcement, and the fact that the mental capacity for rebellion against an accepted leader has been rigorously scrubbed from their mental faculties on the genetic level. The capacity for personal ambition is actually a flaw to them; it's just one they don't recognize because most Grineer are designed to blindly accept a leader with the proper credentials, and one of those credentials is the mental capacity for personal ambition. As a result, all of the Grineer leadership possesses this flaw, leading to the likes of Vay Hek, Sargas Ruk, Tyl Regor and Kela de Thaym.

Further, they're not 'all the same person' - even in a clone society like the Grineer, there's numerous different templates for different kinds of soldier and worker, and the best-performing creations from these templates are used as the templates for the next generation. As a result, there's a process of slow self-improvement going on here, and that's without the efforts of people like Tyl Regor to forcibly advance the Grineer on the genetic level, such as his Tubeman project, which produced the Manic Bombard - a Manic that retained all the ferocity and cunning of a Manic but also still had the wherewithal to use ranged weaponry and the obedience to follow more than the simplest orders.

The combination of flawed processes and a variety of templates leads to idiosyncrasies and individuality among the Grineer, as well as individual personalities, often extreme when they deviate from the norm. Sometimes, this leads to the creation of new standard templates, when these deviations prove useful in some fashion. Look at the Nox - the fact that their biology is toxic to most other life would probably be seen as a flaw, but weld them into their own personal environment suit in order to keep them from poisoning everyone else, and concentrate their bio-toxins into a sprayer to be used on enemies, and you've got a useful chemical weapons platform.

- I refuse to believe this entire game takes place in the Sol System. Our natural Solar System.

How do the Corpus -and- Grineer both have massive capital ships that rival even the largest ones seen in other fiction universes? Most Corpus ships and Grineer Galleons seem to be in excess of 10km long and maybe 5km wide if you roughly gauge most maps running "corner to corner".

Where are these built? How? You would need an astronomical amount of resources for even ONE of these ships and yet we see them destroyed on a daily basis.
I can't speak for the Corpus ships, but Grineer Shipyards dominate the surface of Ceres. It's why the planet is mined to hell and back, giant chasms are everywhere, and the place is polluted beyond all recognition. So at least for the Grineer, the answer to that question is simple - they've got at least one entire planet devoted to the purpose.

Gotta split again...
最後修改者:[R] Nerva; 2018 年 5 月 8 日 上午 8:57
[R] Nerva 2018 年 5 月 8 日 上午 8:58 
- I cannot believe interstellar "warp" tech doesnt exist. Everything in the game suggests it does, but we're told it does not.

Humans must exist and have fully colonized multiple systems for even half of the stuff we see ingame to plausibly exist or occur.

Trillions of unseen Civilians in unseen habitats. The industry required by both Grineer and Corpus to sustain their forces. The average tech level of people in this game universe. Laser beams. Portals.
'Warp' tech exists. It's called the Solar Rails. The Solar Rails basically 'skim' the edges of the Void, allowing ships to achieve relativistic or even FTL velocities by a process called 'punching.' Listen to the scanner in your orbiter; you'll hear solar rail traffic controllers talking managing ships that are using the rail network. There's even a solar rail between Sol and Tau - the Sentients were designed to build one when they were launched towards Tau, and they used it when they returned to Sol to start the Old War.

Also, you are seriously overestimating how many worlds would be necessary to house 'trillions' of people. There's about 7.6 billion people on Earth alone right now, and we still have space for things like nature preserves and uninhabited wild country.

Consider that the Orokin have mastered the art of terraforming to a degree we can only begin to fathom, and understand quantum physics well enough to achieve quantum superposition as a method of storage, and entire civilizations like the Myconans are entirely spacefaring, and the idea of 'trillions of unseen civilians' becomes a lot more plausible.

- The Void.

Just what. We can clearly see that there is empty space beyond the edge of our Solar System, but not an extra-dimensional "Void" that apparently changes physics, drives people mad and is otherwise lethal or dangerous.

Why is the Solar System surrounded by extra-dimensional space? Why does it affect physical matter when you're in there? What is 'it'?

Also, the Orokin clearly have functional teleporters. So do the Grineer and Corpus. This goes back to an earlier point. If we have teleporters, we have other worlds and systems. Easily.
The Origin system is not surrounded by the Void. It basically quantum co-locates with the Void. Look at Limbo - Limbo is capable of accessing the Rift Plane, which basically the border-plane between being fully in the Void, and fully in normal space. His mastery of this border-plane's malleable physics are what let him pull BS like Stasis and Rift Surge.

Now imagine you push beyond the Rift Plane and fully into the Void - a crazy, maddening hellscape where the laws of physics only loosely apply and nothing works as it should, but which has its own rules that can be exploited to your advantage if you can figure out how without going off your nut in the process. The Orokin were only just beginning to understand how to utilize the Void when the Old War happened - study of it advanced rapidly with the introduction of the Tenno and the fact that, to the Sentients, the Void was lethal poison. Prior to the Old War, only the edges of it were used for FTL transportation, because going any deeper meant not coming out again. This is why the Zariman Ten-Zero incident was so unusual; until it happened nothing ever came back from the Void if it went too far in.

- Why does absolutely everything in the game look so completely alien?

All the Warframes look like inhuman gelatinous globs of somehow "sharp edged" Latex. Yes I have done most of the story and I know the 'truth' of how they function, but that doesnt explain how they look.
Say it with me - mechanically augmented infested flesh. 'Flesh' includes things like chitin carapaces and the like. When Warframes were originally designed, the Orokin were in no way limited to just human, or even just mammal, DNA; they had DNA sequences for almost any type of biological material they wanted to grow; plant, mammal, reptile, insect, even weirder things we don't even have taxonomical terms for. Genetic engineering was like playing with clay for them. This is why Kubrow hatch from freakin' eggs, yet bear fur and behave like modern dogs.

Everything Grineer looks straight out of the 'Bad guys of Asian Anime' design. Nothing is logical about the physical construction of much of their equipment. It is described as being machine-stamped and produced in bulk. Nothing about weird bubbles, rounded surfaces and individually-modified-to-suit-cybernetics is conducive to mass production.
You know what rounded surfaces do suit, though? Impact deflection. You know what sort of manufacturing processes can easily produce rounded surfaces? Injection-molding - which happens to be one of the best ways to produce molded goods in microgravity.

Grineer equipment mostly consists of refinements of improvised designs, and are designed for durability, with no thought given to any sort of elegance and little concern given to wastefulness. A few Grineer weapons are actually modified and redesigned workman's tools - the Drakgoon, Miter, and Ignis are examples of this. Grineer have only just recently begun to master energy weaponry, such as the Atomos and Nukor.

Grineer cybernetics are their forte. As much as their equipment and even their personnel are mass-produced, in terms of cybernetics and phyiscal augmentation they're the most advanced society short of the Orokin. As one of the Cephalon Fragment codex entries states, they're better at keeping failing bodies working through prosthetics than they are at making bodies that don't fail in the first place.

Cetus people are nothing but semi-futuristic-but-also-medieval Japanese Whalers and Fishermen with god awful hats. They're also a sickly greenish yellowy baige color that isnt quite actual Caucasian or Asian in tone.
They're mostly medieval. Any futuristic tech they have access to is scavenged either from the Orokin (remember, they live at the base of an Orokin tower that's still functional), or stolen from the Grineer. As far as skin tone goes, it's been millenia - terms like "Asian" or "Caucasian" are probably so dated that a typical Ostron would be as confused by them as we would be if they said someone had an "Erisian" complexion.

Sentients, despite being 'Robotic', look absolutely nothing like the part. They appear completely alien and illogical in design. Almost fish-like plants. Bizzare.
Sentients are biomachines. Robots that essentially function like cells, designed to give Sentients the ability to rapidly adapt to incoming stresses. Each Sentient consciousness we encounter is essentially a giant colony of tiny networked robots. They're somewhat akin to Geth from Mass Effect in that fashion, but with stronger individual sapience and sense of self; two colonies of Sentients can't just break down and merge into one greater gestalt consciousness.

Corpus are the only vaguely Human looking faction in the game. Even then their robots are very odd and impractical by design AND their signature helmets.
Corpus are also direct descendents of the Orokin Empire; they were originally its merchant caste. When the Empire collapsed, the Corpus survived by focusing on retaining an economy and distancing themselves from the trappings of the old Empire. The gold flowing lines of the Orokin became the harsh cubist angles of the Corpus. Their robots are oddly curved because they're actually descended straight from Orokin-era designs. Take a look at the Moa synthesis imprint some time, if you want to see how the first Moa entered service in the Corpus.

The Tenno are described as both being extremely rare, few and far between - yet we are also told of Tenno settlements, entire structures built by them and thus a formed society. What? Where? How? The Relays and Dojo's and more. Mass-producing Warframes. New Tenno designs that arent of Orokin quality, but still vastly superior to everything the other factions wield, also suggests a Scientific and Governmental body for such a society.
Keep in mind that there have been at least two Tenno cultures. The first dates back to the Old War. This is back when they were slaves to the Orokin. In the early ages of this culture, they were simple warriors, issued Prime warframes and equipment, and given orders directly.

As the Orokin Empire began to crumble under Sentient onslaught, breakaway factions of Tenno began to form (see Sands of Inaros for an example), attaching themselves to existing colonial factions or forming their own groups. These independent Tenno foraged, scavenged, or stole their supplies, from the Orokin, Sentient, and Infestation, much like Tenno do to the Corpus, Grineer, and Infestation now, and began crafting their own facsimiles of Orokin-designed hardware to replace the Prime gear they no longer had access to. When the Old War ended with the assassination of the Council of Executors, Tenno hid as much of their gear as they could, then went into hiding to wait out the aftermath fo the Empire's collapse.

Now that they've returned and began reclaiming and reconstructing their old bases (the relays and dojos). The 'governing bodies' of the Tenno are the individual Tenno clans, and their Dojos are the centers of research. They're managed overall by the Lotus.

For all these people, Corpus, Grineer, Tenno, clones or synthetics or not, someone has to produce food in bulk too. Where?
Grineer produce food artificially, and aren't above recycling their dead. Listen to the Worm Queen's transmissions in the Kuva Fortress. She talks a lot about eating the failures and underperforming, or even those she just doesn't like.

Tenno produce at least some of their food on their Orbiters. Helminth is actually responsible for it - the plants and the fish inside Helminth's chamber are actually bred for food purposes. I imagine they also trade services for food and other supplies as well, taking on missions for embattled colonists facing Grineer or Corpus oppression in exchange for supplies.

As for the Corpus? Not a lot is mentioned about how they get their grub on.

If Natah, The Lotus, is technically a Sentient - why does she look otherwise completely human with a weird helmet? Especially when all the other Sentient look like fish-plant bone monsters that arent even remotely robotic.
Now I'll admit this is somewhat headcanon, not something the game has outright specifically stated, but that human body likely isn't hers. Her body consists of the helmet, cables, and that massive Sentient structure that it's actually attached to. The human body likely belongs to Margulis, and the Lotus is inhabiting it by means of Transference, much like the Tenno inhabit Warframes. The Lotus inhabiting Margulis's body was a convenient way to disguise the fact that the Lotus was a Sentient from the Orokin, as well as preserve Margulis's body until Ballas could find some way to kick the Lotus out and restore Margulis's own mind.

Ballas probably saw this as a way to kill several birds with one stone. Natah's plan would eliminate the executors who demanded Margulis's death, would leave him as the sole remaining pure Orokin Executor, and keep Margulis's body safe until he could come back for it. Which I suspect he has, as of the Apostasy Prologue.

Long post but yeah. The game does -nothing- to explain any of this.

Where the hell does the Lotus and Tenno get off suggesting the Tenno "fight for Balance" between 3, technically 4 factions that via Cloning, Robotics or other means, can technically continue the fight forever?

If they actually wanted Balance they would achieve an outcome. Not prolong the current apparent stalemate between all factions.
The Tenno really don't want to destroy the Corpus or the Grineer. But they also cannot allow either faction to grow strong enough to enslave them. They were slaves once to the Orokin, and refuse to be made slaves again.

If Captain Vor had attempted polite communication with the Tenno upon awakening their Warframes, instead of slapping Ascarises onto their legs to try and control them, the relationship between the Tenno and Grineer would likely be very different than it is now. As it stands, thanks to the fact that Grineer can't really understand any sort of coexistence with others except forcing others to be subservient to them, the Tenno have to fight to keep their freedom (if you're familiar with Star Control II, think about how the Ur-Quan Kzer-za see other races; Grineer are very similar.)

The Corpus, being descendents of the Orokin, see the Tenno as 'betrayers' and still believe that the Tenno should bow down and serve them, just like the Tenno served their Orokin predecessors. They view the Tenno's service as their right - but because the Tenno don't honor that idea and are quite capable of denying them, violently if necessary, they fall back on their mercantile skills when dealing with Tenno, offering payment for services rendered. This is also why the Corpus spend so much effort on making anti-Tenno armament, such as Nullifier, Comba, and Scrambus gear. They very much plan to one day force the Tenno back into their service, and it's in the best interest of the Tenno make sure that's never possible.

Finally, the lore does explain a lot of it. You just haven't looked closely enough.
Venrez 2018 年 5 月 8 日 上午 9:11 
Thanks for some enlightening bits of information.

Aside from that first responding toxic piece of trash.

引用自 nevyn0ad
A rock

I have not progressed fully through the Star Map yet and I definitely have not done all the quests, nor found all the Cephalons. However, most of the Cephalons I have fully "discovered", such as Earth, Mars, Venus, Mercury, Phobos, Ceres, Jupiter and Uranus, absolutely do not contain any of the information posed in my questions other than 'Earth was toxic and abandoned'.

1. The Moon broke because of the force of it being dropped out of the Void without doing anything properly. It’s why we exploded all that crap and the moon has constant quakes.

All of the Orokin structures and the Moon itself is heavily damaged BEFORE you do absolutely anything in that mission.

Why does dimensionally shifting an object cause it any physical harm at all?

Ingame it is instant. If teleportation / dimensional shift is possible at all, it would take time for 'material' effects to occur in our dimension, as we are told that the laws of everything (physics) are different in the void.

The only reasonable occurence of dimensionally shifting an object, if it is at all theoretically possible, is that some of it may be left behind. It would not cause immense structural damage and physical damage.

i.e. If dropping the Moon out of the Void went wrong, you'd be left with the Moon cut perfectly in half, as if the other half never existed due to still being stuck in another dimension, not physically cracked, damaged and broken.

Any physical damage would occur -afterwards- over a great length of time as Gravity and other material forces apply their effects given the shift in mass, if we consider dimensional teleportation a thing.

- - -

2. You assume a society of clones would all have the same personalities. This isn’t Star Wars. Every Grineer is physically the same, but you can’t create perfect neurological cloning. So they’re conditioned and brainwashed into absolute servitutde for the Queens.

Physical cloning is neurological. The brain is physical matter.

If you re-create whatever biological process to "copy paste" the exact same physical body time and time again, it retains the exact same mental processes and memories as it was cloned from.

Yes, there may be "errors" that result in slight differences and the psychological development of a given Clone can vary from its treatment and experience after the moment it begins its "life", but at the moment of creation it is exactly the same as its base.

Perhaps more may be explained once I encounter the Queens but I still do not believe, at all, that any sort of entirely Clone-based society could ever, even remotely function.

Especially when we are told most Grineer live 3 months at best.

At best.

Seriously.

- - -

引用自 Thryn

Warframe designs - they were originally designed to be the spearhead of Orokin troops against the Sentients, often inspired by elements or ancient legends. Why wouldn't you want something not quite human looking to inspire and/or terrify the populace into remaining obedient?

Spearhead? We are told ONE Warframe took down the largest Sentient known to Man, the one threatening the Tower on the Plains of Eidolon in Russia.

It had absolutely nothing to do with the Tower that remains. Which sparks further questions as to why the Tower hasnt vaporized the Japanese Whalers in Cetus yet, or at the very least turned them into mindless Corrupted.

I question a design philosophy that has the conquering troops look nothing like the people they are made to represent.

Imagine if any Empire on Earth was conquered by a race of Sentient Fish Bones that look like Plants, but then it turns out Humans were the ones in control?

As a loose example.

It just seems very self-defeating and contradictory.

- - -

引用自 SoundDriver
If I'm not mistaken, the biped with opposable thumbs are in packs for numerous reasons; mostly, the homosapien was farmed and turned into what has become the Grineer. Some fought against assimilation while others fled to anywhere they could hence scattered remnants or pockets of society a.k.a. the colonies. The general story line implies the Orokin were slavers whom come across the Earth and its inhabitants and decided we'd make great pets.

That pretty much, loosely sums up what I've gotten out of the story; the plot is fairly deep while the atmosphere essentially entertains the "too many chiefs, not enough indians" chaotic pathway; in realistics terms chaos would occur and greed manifestation for numerous reasons would dictate greatly.

Whilst I respect your take on the story, absolutely nothing I have been told or seen thus far even remotely suggests the Orokin are outright Alien or extra-solar.

Everything points to them being "Ancient" Humans.

Your Operator even directly refers to the Grineer as former 'Builders' and 'Laborers' that now only build 'War'.

I can understand mass-cloning basic laborers. But not forming a Society out of it. Even with the Rulers gone they would self-destruct in no time at all.

The Sentient during the Second Dream quest even outright refers to Salad Five (Alad V) as an Orokin. Maybe a descendant, but an Orokin nonetheless.

I still dont understand what the Orokin even supposedly did "wrong" to warrant their wholesale genocide by the Tenno.

- - -

What Colonies? Where? How many people live there?

Under what government and affiliation?

I know everyone in Warframe is "trans-human". We are talking evolution, cybernetic enhancement and general gene division over what seems to be about 1000 years into the future.

But where are they?

Cetus is a tiny fishing village of roughly 30-50 people at most.

Why does the exterior Skybox not show sprawling cityscapes or towering futuristic skyscapers to supposedly support a population of tens of thousands, if not millions, if not billions?

I am okay with the game showing us this, but not allowing us to go there, instead forcing us to remain within the 'slums' or whatever low-rise residential it decides to show for the ease of gameplay modelling and design.

But it doesnt.

- - -

As I said before, the game does focus on military based encounters with the Tenno launching missions against specified targets. However, that is nothing to say against the artistic leniency given to simply providing us with a backdrop skybox of a larger settlement or the like, without having to meticulously model it.

Many of the Missions on the 'snowy' landscapes of Venus, Phobos and the like against the Corpus seem to show a snowy environment with large orbiting space / sub-orbit structures. It is not abundantly clear if the lights are gunfire or just passing space-ships. Is that where people live?

-

Why did the supposed Colonies on Mars, suggested by someone else, live in crudely archaeological stone-carved buildings in an era of teleportation, mass-fabrication, cloning, laser weaponry and psychic powers?

Bollocks.

-

Most of the Grineer based Missions show derelict hell-holes with absolutely no possibility to sustain any population of any size, even with indoor hydroponic farming. No "Cities" or large Habitation dwellings. No infrastructure besides Mass-Cloning or Weapons Manufacture.

Which is unsustainable, especially null if you consider the current conflict has been going on for a -very- long time.

-

How are fleets of TITAN sized (30x10km^2) Corpus and Grineer vessels which are often larger than even the largest of ships seen in other fiction universes able to get around a singular Solar System without quite literally bumping nose-to-nose with each other?

How does such a conflict sustain itself? The resources of our current system would've been exhausted in 10 years at this rate, let alone what the universe portrays as 1000+ years of conflict without either side gaining the upper hand.

The entirety of space between planets would be rubble at that point.

I am willing to give a game some leeway for "constructive" destruction, in showcasing us the heavily damaged Corpus ships being attacked by Fomorians for example, but given the sheer size of the ships involved we would have an entire planet sized ball of wreckage at this point given both how regularly these missions occur AND how regularly the game itself tells us, story-canonical, that it occurs.

The moment even one side had 1 ship remaining and the other had 0, that side would win by default in this scenario.

The Tenno cannot be held accountable for this because they seemingly operate outside of the established lore, with other factions able to freely move around the system whilst the Tenno are reliant purely upon ancient (somehow undiscovered, destroyed or non-salvaged) Solar "Rails".

Another point towards how in the hell does anything happen in this game without functional ship-based independant Warp-drives?

Especially when we are regularly slapped in the face with handheld teleportation devices used by even the most basic enemy forces?

-

Tenno Society?

The Lotus may act as a figurehead, but you cannot rely on ONE person for governance, weapons development, war intelligence, war deployment and action, civilian matters, construction, infrastructure, politcial views and agenda.

Even if it is a trans-human non-human Sentient synthetic AI robotic lifeform.

Because all of its subjects are not.

Operators / Warframes may walk a thin line here, but they are neither one nor the other.

We are told they are extremely few in number. But still enough to form seperate (multiple) Societies, Clans, Dojo's and the like with individual architecture, weaponry and governance?

Let alone the political intrigue of multiple Tenno Clans and Societies acting against one another yet all supposedly responding to Lotus with unanimous approval, even as she (Lotus) watches them willingly and freely butcher each other and thousands of others in assorted battles.

Rubbish.

- - -

There just doesnt seem to be enough infrastructure to support even 1/10th of the number of factions and supposed conflict we see in the game.

Cities. Production of raw resources. Established civilization.

- - -

I know the Sentient were sent to a different system, Tau Ceti, to supposedly colonize it for Human settlement.

But that means they had Warp based technology to enable FTL travel.

Which the game thus far says is inexplicably impossible.

Especially given their immediate return. At least as far for several to return and propagate the Sentient / Orokin conflict.

By "Humanity" I refer to it as all inclusive, being Corpus primarily, Grineer, Orokin and Sentient. Likely including Infested by default as by actions of the Orokin and their Warp-Capable (Void) ships.

Humanity must exist in multiple, many, numerous other Star Systems for anything in this game to be even remotely possible. We are simply viewing the conflict over the 'Origin' Sol System which has otherwise long since been abandoned for being a backwater of conflict and mercenaries fighting over scraps.
1. About Mars. The people of Mars were dirt poor and lived under the Orokin for the best purposes of, children being kidnapped for the Continuity. That’s why. The Orokin were the elite. Everyone below them was a dog barely surviving. The Cephalon Fragments and Silver Grove transmissions reveal this.

2. Subtle shifts in the enviroment cause neurological differences in the Grineer clones. A brain isn’t set in stone, everything causes minor shifts that affect it over time.

3. Also, the Sentients did not arrive to conquer humanity. They arrived to eradicate them. They were originally machines made to terraform another solar system. In Natah it’s very expliccitly stated they did use Void FTL to “cross the gap” and paid the price for it.

4. Also, as to why the Cetus Orokin Tower doesn’t destroy the Ostrons, it’s because the Tower protects the Ostrons, and the Ostrons worship the tower. The two would die without the other.

5. The Tenno have no conflicts with one another and all have a direct connection to the Lotus. They all answer to her because she’s the only figure they have. The clans don’t even have hostilities to one another, or if they do exist aren’t very important.

6. We don’t see cities worth of production (outside the Grineer Shipyard tileset) because all of our missions take place on one of the following: Military bases, Infested Spawning Grounds, Production Military Bases.
最後修改者:Grey Star, The Rival Defender; 2018 年 5 月 8 日 上午 9:41
Oh God the whole “Alad V is an Orokin” thing.

Well let’s start things. First off the Sentient Hunhow refers to Alad V as an Orokin because he only cares about destroying the Orokin, who were human, and thus refers to all humans are Orokin because nothing’s going to stop a genocidal sentient robot from doing whatever it wants. Secondly the Corpus ARE the descendents of the Orokin, and that’s why they refer to the Tenno as the “Betrayers” for slaughtering the leadership. Thirdly the Tenno slaughtered the Orokin because they are horrible horrible people. The Executors killed the person trying to heal the Tenno, then weaponized the children made orphans twice over. In addition they kidnapped children for the Continuity, using the Tenno, who themselves were children. They were also responsible for the Sentient, and the Infestation. So let’s see, parent murdering child kidnapping zombie making immortal ♥♥♥♥ lords, why not slaughter them?
Ghin 2018 年 5 月 8 日 上午 9:56 
There are other people outside the factions we encounter in game, they're just entirely irrelevant. We see a bit of them in Cetus and on the relays.

Keep in mind the massive scale of the solar system and planets. Earth, for example, is so big that there are people who actually think it's flat. Iron Wake is on Earth and the Grineer somehow haven't noticed it or the other Steel Meridian bases. There are human settlements all over but they aren't relevant to the game.
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