Is reddit having a temper tantrum or has sanctuary onslaught actually been 'nerfed'

[WereChicken]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/8exv5y/despite_over_12_pages_of_negative_feedback_de/

Didn't manage to play yesterday beyond logging in and out so can't verify it myself.

Is this reddit over-reacting or have DE nerfed what was a good source of focus?

[KingGrimm]

Originally posted by Master Nurmi:

Seems reasonable complaint
Also this main point could have been quoted

"What's the point of playing past Zone 8? What's the point of removing the efficiency orb in Zone 15? Why are you increasing efficiency decay rate by TEN TIMES in Zone 20? Why the hell are the rewards staying the same while the difficulty increases? Who thought this was a good idea to push?"

+1So true!!This whole mode is such a failure,besides the reward and fokusfarming

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

At first I was like "those changes are bad", but after a few shower thoughs, I realised that, it's not DE that's the stupid one that throws bad changes, but the comminity.

Many say they want an "end game", high level stuff where they can have fun, but, 90% of the players don't care about that, they want the rewards only, and if the rewards aren't "good enough" for them, then no matter how good the mode is/was, they will deem it trash.

When the design conuncil challenges were added, players cried they are too hard, making DE remove them.

Eidolon hunts, Sanctuary, even damn Meso survivals have players demand you play certain things just to "get the most rewards possible", which is kinda trash tbh.

I don't care too much about the rewards, give me 1000 credits per rotation and high level stuff to kill, and I'm happy, but most players aren't like that, they care for rewards, they play for rewards only. Only reason why they wanted to go further than rotation 8 is because it's less time spent loading, not for the challenge, but saved time. Goind to round 24 for example is less time spent than doing rotation 8 3 times.

Yes, there are players who do want the end game content, the challenging stuff, but most of the community doesn't care about that. They claim they want it, but when they get it, rewards are all that matters.

"Fun? Who needs that, I want the rewards, so you better bring meta gear with you or go away"

Until that mentality changes, we don't need an end game. DE just realised that waaay sooner than the players.

[WereChicken]

Originally posted by Anubis:

At first I was like "those changes are bad", but after a few shower thoughs, I realised that, it's not DE that's the stupid one that throws bad changes, but the comminity.

Many say they want an "end game", high level stuff where they can have fun, but, 90% of the players don't care about that, they want the rewards only, and if the rewards aren't "good enough" for them, then no matter how good the mode is/was, they will deem it trash.

When the design conuncil challenges were added, players cried they are too hard, making DE remove them.

Eidolon hunts, Sanctuary, even damn Meso survivals have players demand you play certain things just to "get the most rewards possible", which is kinda trash tbh.

I don't care too much about the rewards, give me 1000 credits per rotation and high level stuff to kill, and I'm happy, but most players aren't like that, they care for rewards, they play for rewards only. Only reason why they wanted to go further than rotation 8 is because it's less time spent loading, not for the challenge, but saved time. Goind to round 24 for example is less time spent than doing rotation 8 3 times.

Yes, there are players who do want the end game content, the challenging stuff, but most of the community doesn't care about that. They claim they want it, but when they get it, rewards are all that matters.

"Fun? Who needs that, I want the rewards, so you better bring meta gear with you or go away"

Until that mentality changes, we don't need an end game. DE just realised that waaay sooner than the players.

I think the issue is that no one would mind if they'd scaled the rewards with the enemy levels, but it seems to be that a lot of people feel like they've made the mode a lot harder and more unfair (like the increased efficiency decay) while also reducing the focus rewards.

They should have just put the difficulty up to where it should have been and reduced the efficiency decay amount to compensate for that increased enemy toughness.

Doing both just feels heavy handed.

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

Originally posted by WereChicken:

Originally posted by Anubis:

At first I was like "those changes are bad", but after a few shower thoughs, I realised that, it's not DE that's the stupid one that throws bad changes, but the comminity.

Many say they want an "end game", high level stuff where they can have fun, but, 90% of the players don't care about that, they want the rewards only, and if the rewards aren't "good enough" for them, then no matter how good the mode is/was, they will deem it trash.

When the design conuncil challenges were added, players cried they are too hard, making DE remove them.

Eidolon hunts, Sanctuary, even damn Meso survivals have players demand you play certain things just to "get the most rewards possible", which is kinda trash tbh.

I don't care too much about the rewards, give me 1000 credits per rotation and high level stuff to kill, and I'm happy, but most players aren't like that, they care for rewards, they play for rewards only. Only reason why they wanted to go further than rotation 8 is because it's less time spent loading, not for the challenge, but saved time. Goind to round 24 for example is less time spent than doing rotation 8 3 times.

Yes, there are players who do want the end game content, the challenging stuff, but most of the community doesn't care about that. They claim they want it, but when they get it, rewards are all that matters.

"Fun? Who needs that, I want the rewards, so you better bring meta gear with you or go away"

Until that mentality changes, we don't need an end game. DE just realised that waaay sooner than the players.

I think the issue is that no one would mind if they'd scaled the rewards with the enemy levels, but it seems to be that a lot of people feel like they've made the mode a lot harder and more unfair (like the increased efficiency decay) while also reducing the focus rewards.

They should have just put the difficulty up to where it should have been and reduced the efficiency decay amount to compensate for that increased enemy toughness.

Doing both just feels heavy handed.

And how would you scale it to prevent the "you don't have meta gear, I don't play with you" issues, that we know already do happen in the game, but also keep things fair for all sides? Both casual and the "endurance runners"

[WereChicken]

Originally posted by Anubis:

Originally posted by WereChicken:

I think the issue is that no one would mind if they'd scaled the rewards with the enemy levels, but it seems to be that a lot of people feel like they've made the mode a lot harder and more unfair (like the increased efficiency decay) while also reducing the focus rewards.

They should have just put the difficulty up to where it should have been and reduced the efficiency decay amount to compensate for that increased enemy toughness.

Doing both just feels heavy handed.

And how would you scale it to prevent the "you don't have meta gear, I don't play with you" issues, that we know already do happen in the game, but also keep things fair for all sides? Both casual and the "endurance runners"

Good question.

Personally I think the initial system was perfectly fine (asides form the crashes, spawn issues and bugs) difficulty did ramp up, but the rewards felt fair. They really should just have the efficiency decay at a fixed rate throughout. Harder enemies will take more time to kill naturally anyway so you've already got added pressure, not need to add more as it just would feel unfair.


The problem is enemy scaling. For corpus and infested the changes won't really mean anything but for armoured enemies that's the real problem. Enemy armour scaling's been a big problem for a while and DE are going to have to bite the bullet eventually and deal with this as it's what enforces the current meta, specifically the meta of slash, corrosion and viral (on crit build with hunter munitions)

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

Originally posted by WereChicken:

Originally posted by Anubis:

And how would you scale it to prevent the "you don't have meta gear, I don't play with you" issues, that we know already do happen in the game, but also keep things fair for all sides? Both casual and the "endurance runners"

Good question.

Personally I think the initial system was perfectly fine (asides form the crashes, spawn issues and bugs) difficulty did ramp up, but the rewards felt fair. They really should just have the efficiency decay at a fixed rate throughout. Harder enemies will take more time to kill naturally anyway so you've already got added pressure, not need to add more as it just would feel unfair.


The problem is enemy scaling. For corpus and infested the changes won't really mean anything but for armoured enemies that's the real problem. Enemy armour scaling's been a big problem for a while and DE are going to have to bite the bullet eventually and deal with this as it's what enforces the current meta, specifically the meta of slash, corrosion and viral (on crit build with hunter munitions)

I can understand that, and it's a good idea, but then there come problems, for example (not sure if you read all the comments on the main WF forums) people were crying that the enemies in Sanctuary Onslaugh should have their normal drop tables, not just ammo, hp and energy.

Now, as we both agreed, there isn't an easy way to balance things out, and at how many players want too many different things, it's hard for DE to please anyone, hence why I consider the changes they made to Sanctuary as I do.

In the end, we will have to wait and see what happens, but players should accept that just because they have 1 "solution" that they and their friends see as a good decision, doesn't mean everyone does or that it is actually a good suggestion.

[MrWitz]

Used to be that you could get in your 250k focus cap (as DPS) easily by the end of 8 waves. Now you can't unless the conditions and squad are absolutely perfect.

[WereChicken]

@Anubis (don't want to start a wall of text)

Honestly I think having the enemies only drop ammo and health/energy ords is a really smart move on DE's part. It actually makes it feel like it's sort of in a simulation and means they can really amp up the spawn rates without having to factor in which enemies have the rarer mods (for example the sealab butcher with condition overload)

This mode felt a lot more arcadey and the higher focus gains are a good enough reason to play it, but also you do want to go as far as possible. Honestly they could have just left it as is and said 'oh they're just weaker because they're simulated' Making this change now just smacks of displaced priorities, even though in reality that would probably be different teams. I mean this change would have probably gone down better a month or two down the line when all the major bugs are worked out.

They should have at least waited until they were 100% sure they'd sorted out the issues with enemy spawning (or rather the lack of) and gate issues. As those are already frustrating.and that'll definitely make it worse.

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

Originally posted by WereChicken:

@Anubis (don't want to start a wall of text)

Honestly I think having the enemies only drop ammo and health/energy ords is a really smart move on DE's part. It actually makes it feel like it's sort of in a simulation and means they can really amp up the spawn rates without having to factor in which enemies have the rarer mods (for example the sealab butcher with condition overload)

This mode felt a lot more arcadey and the higher focus gains are a good enough reason to play it, but also you do want to go as far as possible. Honestly they could have just left it as is and said 'oh they're just weaker because they're simulated' Making this change now just smacks of displaced priorities, even though in reality that would probably be different teams. I mean this change would have probably gone down better a month or two down the line when all the major bugs are worked out.

They should have at least waited until they were 100% sure they'd sorted out the issues with enemy spawning (or rather the lack of) and gate issues. As those are already frustrating.and that'll definitely make it worse.

Normally I would reply, but since there's a hotfix supposed to come later today, and I am heading to bed, I will hold my reply until tomorrow after work, if that's ok? I want to see what the hotfix will do. Maybe it will fix all this, so my reply would be made pointless, so....

[Ashley]

Imho, certain parts of the community are very prone to throwing unreasonable tantrums as soon as anything mildly displeasing happens. It comes with every single patch that introduces new gameplay elements. Every. Single. One.

"Plains of Eidolon is crap, Kuva Survival is crap, Onslaught is crap, everything is crap.
Game ruined, literally unplayable, DE are the worst because they don't listen to me - and you are the worst for defending them. You are part of the problem."

Blah, blah, blah.
It's always the same, and I am so tired of it.
I stopped visitng the subreddit because of how much of a circlejerk it is, especially when it's got another hate boner, like it does right now.

I've seen veterans tell newbies to suck it up and grind, just to then complain about Kuva and Focus gains only a couple minutes later. It's so silly, I don't want to spend any more time on this than I already have.

Onslaught is fun, it needs some fixing, no need to freak out like some no-lifer that has nothing better to do.

[Totally Innocent Chatbot]

To me, a better question would be "why did anybody expect it to not get nerfed?" What exactly are the chances that DE actually intended to create Draco 2.0 when they added Sanctuary Onslaught into the game? Once I saw the Affinity/Focus gains in this mode for myself, the first thing that popped into my mind was the same thing as the first time I experienced the Credit gains of pre-nerf Secura Lecta: "Yep, this is getting nerfed."

[^3Tinkles]

Originally posted by Totally Innocent Chatbot:

To me, a better question would be "why did anybody expect it to not get nerfed?" What exactly are the chances that DE actually intended to create Draco 2.0 when they added Sanctuary Onslaught into the game? Once I saw the Affinity/Focus gains in this mode for myself, the first thing that popped into my mind was the same thing as the first time I experienced the Credit gains of pre-nerf Secura Lecta: "Yep, this is getting nerfed."

Which is quite sad really, focus farming should be survival / endless missions (at least the most effective way of farming them) not cheesing equinox. Would rather have 30 mins of endless survival focus farming than 30 mins or equinox cheesing, absolutely aggravating that there is only one or two effective ways of farming for focus.