[LORE] Are the Warframes sentient? (Sentient as in self-aware)

[♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥]

From the way Lotus talks about the frames, they almost seem like old family members to her. Chroma is a good example.

[Okami Amaterasu]

So, what does that make Stalker? He's got his own Excalibur warframe with his signature helmet, but it can use other frames abilities, so maybe it's a custom made Warframe? If so does that make him Tenno or not? We know he was part of the Orokin, but Lotus said that when Stalker found out the Tenno secret it drove him to madness. Was it the fact that children are controlling the Warframes? Or that Lotus was supposed to destroy the Tenno after they destroyed the Orokin?

Stalker is one of my favorite characters so I'm really curious on him...plus the Acolytes all have different warframes too.

[Konachibi]

Stalker isn't a warframe at all. He was more of a special orokin bodyguard during the orokin era, until the Tenno turned on the orokin and destroyed their empire. Ever since then he's vowed revenge! (because he's an edgelord and can't get over something that happened thousands of years ago) Also as far as we know Stalker is the guy inside the armour rather than someone using transferrence to control it.

[Tesper]

Konachibi eredeti hozzászólása:

Stalker isn't a warframe at all. He was more of a special orokin bodyguard during the orokin era, until the Tenno turned on the orokin and destroyed their empire. Ever since then he's vowed revenge! (because he's an edgelord and can't get over something that happened thousands of years ago) Also as far as we know Stalker is the guy inside the armour rather than someone using transferrence to control it.

That's not entirely certain, in the end of the Second Dream, Hunhow talks to Stalker "You still hate them, you still hate yourself ", giving the idea that he is a Tenno.
Also he's using normal Excalibur model and Excalibur Umbra's model as Shadow Stalker

[[R] Nerva]

Okami Amaterasu eredeti hozzászólása:

So, what does that make Stalker? He's got his own Excalibur warframe with his signature helmet, but it can use other frames abilities, so maybe it's a custom made Warframe? If so does that make him Tenno or not? We know he was part of the Orokin, but Lotus said that when Stalker found out the Tenno secret it drove him to madness. Was it the fact that children are controlling the Warframes? Or that Lotus was supposed to destroy the Tenno after they destroyed the Orokin?

Stalker is one of my favorite characters so I'm really curious on him...plus the Acolytes all have different warframes too.

Konachibi eredeti hozzászólása:

Stalker isn't a warframe at all. He was more of a special orokin bodyguard during the orokin era, until the Tenno turned on the orokin and destroyed their empire. Ever since then he's vowed revenge! (because he's an edgelord and can't get over something that happened thousands of years ago) Also as far as we know Stalker is the guy inside the armour rather than someone using transferrence to control it.

Funnily enough, there is a line in The Second Dream that hints that the Stalker might just be a self-aware Warframe, or perhaps one that's like Harrow, and had its operator permanently Transferred into it.

The Second Dream eredeti hozzászólása:

Hunhow: (To the Stalker, looking over the player's impaled Warframe) No self, no sense, no death. Just a metal puppet, dangling on Tenno strings. Only the Tenno's death will end your despair.
Hunhow: All you dread-long life, you've waited for this moment... ...but you're asking yourself... Was I one of these wretched things? ...you know the answer. You still hate them... you still hate... yourself.

That second line, "Was I one of these wretched things?" is telling. Hunhow is basically quoting Stalker's thoughts to us. He knows what Stalker really is, even if we don't. Konachibi is correct that Stalker was once an Orokin bodyguard, likely one of the Dax. That said, this doesn't necessarily preclude him from also being a self-aware Warframe, or possibly someone who's been Transfered into a Warframe for so long that they've basically lost their original sense of self and see themselves as the Warframe, much like your character was prior to being recovered from the Somatic Link on the Moon.

If you recall, in the Silver Grove, Transference isn't something that's limited to Tenno only. Sylvana, the voice in the Grove, is actually a Transfered mind that was attempting to occupy Titania, but mistakes during the Transference process made her wind up inhabiting the entirety of the forest instead. Tenno just have an easier time performing Transference without risk of permanent harm, and apparently can do so without the aid of a Somatic Link when they're nearby to the target.

Point is, we don't know what the hell the Stalker is, aside from a warrior capable of wielding Warframe-like powers that dates back to the Orokin era, holding a serious grudge over the Tenno's assassination of the Orokin leadership. Until we get something more definitive, we can only make educated guesses.

[Okami Amaterasu]

Konachibi eredeti hozzászólása:

Stalker isn't a warframe at all. He was more of a special orokin bodyguard during the orokin era, until the Tenno turned on the orokin and destroyed their empire. Ever since then he's vowed revenge! (because he's an edgelord and can't get over something that happened thousands of years ago) Also as far as we know Stalker is the guy inside the armour rather than someone using transferrence to control it.

So there's someone actually in that suit? I'm guessing the Acolytes are the same then. Interesting.

Edit: This isn't for fact. Just wondering.

[Okami Amaterasu]

R Nerva eredeti hozzászólása:

Okami Amaterasu eredeti hozzászólása:

So, what does that make Stalker? He's got his own Excalibur warframe with his signature helmet, but it can use other frames abilities, so maybe it's a custom made Warframe? If so does that make him Tenno or not? We know he was part of the Orokin, but Lotus said that when Stalker found out the Tenno secret it drove him to madness. Was it the fact that children are controlling the Warframes? Or that Lotus was supposed to destroy the Tenno after they destroyed the Orokin?

Stalker is one of my favorite characters so I'm really curious on him...plus the Acolytes all have different warframes too.

Konachibi eredeti hozzászólása:

Stalker isn't a warframe at all. He was more of a special orokin bodyguard during the orokin era, until the Tenno turned on the orokin and destroyed their empire. Ever since then he's vowed revenge! (because he's an edgelord and can't get over something that happened thousands of years ago) Also as far as we know Stalker is the guy inside the armour rather than someone using transferrence to control it.

Funnily enough, there is a line in The Second Dream that hints that the Stalker might just be a self-aware Warframe, or perhaps one that's like Harrow, and had its operator permanently Transferred into it.

The Second Dream eredeti hozzászólása:

Hunhow: (To the Stalker, looking over the player's impaled Warframe) No self, no sense, no death. Just a metal puppet, dangling on Tenno strings. Only the Tenno's death will end your despair.
Hunhow: All you dread-long life, you've waited for this moment... ...but you're asking yourself... Was I one of these wretched things? ...you know the answer. You still hate them... you still hate... yourself.

That second line, "Was I one of these wretched things?" is telling. Hunhow is basically quoting Stalker's thoughts to us. He knows what Stalker really is, even if we don't. Konachibi is correct that Stalker was once an Orokin bodyguard, likely one of the Dax. That said, this doesn't necessarily preclude him from also being a self-aware Warframe, or possibly someone who's been Transfered into a Warframe for so long that they've basically lost their original sense of self and see themselves as the Warframe, much like your character was prior to being recovered from the Somatic Link on the Moon.

If you recall, in the Silver Grove, Transference isn't something that's limited to Tenno only. Sylvana, the voice in the Grove, is actually a Transfered mind that was attempting to occupy Titania, but mistakes during the Transference process made her wind up inhabiting the entirety of the forest instead. Tenno just have an easier time performing Transference without risk of permanent harm, and apparently can do so without the aid of a Somatic Link when they're nearby to the target.

Point is, we don't know what the hell the Stalker is, aside from a warrior capable of wielding Warframe-like powers that dates back to the Orokin era, holding a serious grudge over the Tenno's assassination of the Orokin leadership. Until we get something more definitive, we can only make educated guesses.

Hopefully the next quest can shed some light on it. I'd like to know more about Stalker, being a fellow edgelord who also uses black and red colors lmao.

[Tesper]

Okami Amaterasu eredeti hozzászólása:

Konachibi eredeti hozzászólása:

Stalker isn't a warframe at all. He was more of a special orokin bodyguard during the orokin era, until the Tenno turned on the orokin and destroyed their empire. Ever since then he's vowed revenge! (because he's an edgelord and can't get over something that happened thousands of years ago) Also as far as we know Stalker is the guy inside the armour rather than someone using transferrence to control it.

So there's someone actually in that suit? I'm guessing the Acolytes are the same then. Interesting.

That's not yet confirmed....

[Walrus-Sama]

Okami Amaterasu eredeti hozzászólása:

Konachibi eredeti hozzászólása:

Stalker isn't a warframe at all. He was more of a special orokin bodyguard during the orokin era, until the Tenno turned on the orokin and destroyed their empire. Ever since then he's vowed revenge! (because he's an edgelord and can't get over something that happened thousands of years ago) Also as far as we know Stalker is the guy inside the armour rather than someone using transferrence to control it.

So there's someone actually in that suit? I'm guessing the Acolytes are the same then. Interesting.

It's not a Suit, it's a Golem.

[Wintermute]

To add more to the entire "just how sentient warframes are", here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wR3Bng6P6V8

Ballas clearly implies warframes have their own, separate mind, and that they are actually controlled against their will.

There's also entire thing with Titania quest, where it's heavily implied that warframe, not tenno, came to help its creator.

[子不是字]

Is the tank you drive sentient? The warframes are like tanks. Lotus is refering to what is inside the tanks. What she refers to as her family is us, the tenno.

[[R] Nerva]

Wintermute eredeti hozzászólása:

To add more to the entire "just how sentient warframes are", here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wR3Bng6P6V8

Ballas clearly implies warframes have their own, separate mind, and that they are actually controlled against their will.

There's also entire thing with Titania quest, where it's heavily implied that warframe, not tenno, came to help its creator.

Interesting point about what Ballas states in the Valkyr Prime trailer. "They burn with our lost desires, lost insincts. Tenno-tamed, but only just. Cursed and hunted as game; trapped and tortured; yet they remain animals. Less than their human seed, gnawing their limbs from the snare, devouring a banquest of suffering, obese with heat and acid... and rage."

This would definitely imply that there's some emotional capability in Warframes, and you're right that Ballas makes it sound like they're controlled against their will and resentful of it. If we can take him at his word, Warframes constantly struggle to be free of Tenno control.

The game, however, doesn't quite bear that out. If anything, Warframes seem to serve willingly - there's not a lot of evidence ot show that they're constantly trying to slip the leash and escape, and if your Warframe's actions during The Second Dream truly were independent, then they seem to have a vested interest in protecting the Tenno.

Though as far as Titania coming to help, could it be possible that a Tenno sort of 'discovered' the uninhabited Warframe and established a Transference link without anyone being aware of it? Moreover, if Titania was acting independently, why would she come to assist the one who had occupied her with Transference, if what Ballas says is true? There's something going on here that we're not seeing.

It seems pretty clear that there's some degree of awareness in Warframes. It's mostly a question of whether it's animal-like or human-like, and to what extent. To what extent are Warframes capable of thinking on their own, to what extent do they have feelings, and what are their feelings towards the Tenno? Are they slaves, pets, willing servants, symbiotic partners, something else entirely?

The more we learn the more questions keep coming up. That said, I really want to thank those who've taken the time to give this some serious thought here - I've learned quite a bit that I hadn't realized and it's made me reevaluate a lot of conclusions I'd previously drawn.

[Konachibi]

Of course Ballas may just be talking about the mindset of Valkyr and not the warframes as a whole, since Valkyr is just pure rage. She's like a rabid dog that's only being held back because the Tenno keep pulling on the leash.
As for the 'cursed and hunted as game, trapped and tortured' part, that's likely talking about how Valkyr was captured and experimented on by Alad V, which is what made her the broken and psychotic monster that she is... not the best thing they could have hinted on in her prime trailer since her prime variant never had that treatment and so in terms of lore Valkyr Prime should not act or function anything like standard Valkyr, or be consumed by the same anger and rage.

With that being said, I think if they could have altered the reaction of each warframe differently at the end scene of The Second Dream, Valkyr's actions would have likely been to stand up and tear apart Stalker, the operator and the entire ship while she was free of the operator's control and able to vent her anger, while all other warframes would have likely done what actually happens, because they recognise that they would not last long without the Tenno's control.

[[R] Nerva]

Konachibi eredeti hozzászólása:

As for the 'cursed and hunted as game, trapped and tortured' part, that's likely talking about how Valkyr was captured and experimented on by Alad V, which is what made her the broken and psychotic monster that she is... not the best thing they could have hinted on in her prime trailer since her prime variant never had that treatment and so in terms of lore Valkyr Prime should not act or function anything like standard Valkyr, or be consumed by the same anger and rage.

Let me clear up a couple misconceptions here.

First is the timeframe of what Ballas is saying. In all of the Prime trailers, Ballas is addressing the Council of Executors, the very same Council of Executors that the Tenno assassinated in order to shatter the Orokin Empire. So, at the time when Ballas is making this address, talking about Valkyr and the Warframes, Alad V and modern Valkyr did not exist. If he's talking solely about Valkyr, then he's referring to this Valkyr, Valkyr Prime.

Secondly, Valkyr Prime is quite capable of the rage and pain and fury of modern Valkyr. Valkyr Prime is Valkyr as she was intended to be: a blood-maddened animal of a Warframe. Notice the crown of thorns on her head, and the thorny gold additions to her body? She's got her own torture devices built into her. The Orokin wanted a savage, pain-fueled, hysterical monster, and they got it.

When modern Valkyr was first created, Tenno artificers couldn't (or maybe wouldn't), replicate the pain and torture that the Orokin used to give the original Valkyr the rage she relied upon. Instead they gave her a shell of armor to compensate for her frailty, creating Valkyr Gersemi. When Alad V obtained Valkyr, he stripped that shell off, stuck it on Zanuka, and then tormented Valkyr. Something deep inside Valkyr... snapped. She didn't need the armor any more - she was too angry to feel pain. In a way, all Alad V did was unwittingly give Valkyr back what the Orokin intended her to have; something painful to be ticked off at.

When you rebuild Valkyr, she's not the comparatively-gentle, playful carapace-kitty that the Tenno designed. She's fresh from Alad V's operating table and closer to the Orokin original; a psychotic monster ready to get revenge, even if she has to rip the offender apart with her bare claws.

[Konachibi]

Actually as a minor snippit we don't know if Alad V existed during the orokin era or not. As far-fetched as that sounds, there is the moment in The Second Dream when Hunhow addresses Alad V as 'Orokin'. There's also the case that Alad V refers to the Grineer as 'dogs', which is how the Orokin basically perceived them during their time, since Grineer were simply the lower class workforce. He also seems to be the only person out of the entire roster of Grineer and Corpus that is able to communicate with the Lotus, seemingly whenever he pleases, which to me hints that he knows far more about her, the Tenno and the Orokin than he's letting on.

Why this is is never explained, but it could be that Alad V is not just some crazed Corpus scientist with an obsession for warframes. There's also the matter that at one point Alad V is infected with the technocyte virus, making Mutalisk Alad V, but then afterwards recovers from it (albeit with shiny glowey veins), which is strange considering normal Grineer and Corpus transform into the infested when they're infected.

[Walrus-Sama]

Konachibi eredeti hozzászólása:

Actually as a minor snippit we don't know if Alad V existed during the orokin era or not. As far-fetched as that sounds, there is the moment in The Second Dream when Hunhow addresses Alad V as 'Orokin'. There's also the case that Alad V refers to the Grineer as 'dogs', which is how the Orokin basically perceived them during their time, since Grineer were simply the lower class workforce. He also seems to be the only person out of the entire roster of Grineer and Corpus that is able to communicate with the Lotus, seemingly whenever he pleases, which to me hints that he knows far more about her, the Tenno and the Orokin than he's letting on.

Why this is is never explained, but it could be that Alad V is not just some crazed Corpus scientist with an obsession for warframes. There's also the matter that at one point Alad V is infected with the technocyte virus, making Mutalisk Alad V, but then afterwards recovers from it (albeit with shiny glowey veins), which is strange considering normal Grineer and Corpus transform into the infested when they're infected.

Hunhow may just refer to him as Orokin as a blanket term, all the humanoid factions are decendances from the Orokin Empire in some way. The 'True' Orokins were the Elites and Highborns of the Empire who possesd Oro, but the Empire and it's people as a whole (including slaves, like the Grineer) could be refered to as 'Orokin'. Even the Tenno could be refered to as Orokin, primarliy because they actually have Oro.

To Hunhow any human is an 'Orokin'.