Facsim disguised as manners. you can't even joke anymore

[censorship = death :(]

i shall paraphrase:

"freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from concequences."

Everyone says it these days. Liberals say it. Libertarians say it. Guardianistas say it. Student-union reps say it as they chase off campus femnisists who don't belive Caitlyn Jenner is a real woman. Hell, the terrorists who massacred Charlie Hebdo's cartonists probably said it. They certainly thought it. It was the Foul Ideological heart of their act of terror: "Here come the consequences of your freedom of speech..." everyone who says it is really saying, "you can say what you like, but you might suffer for it". Which is another way of saying, "you can say what you like, but i wouldn't if i were you". Which is another way of saying, "best not say it".
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So let's get this "concequences" thing straight once and for all. If the concequence of our freedom of speech is more speech -- disagreement, argument, challange, questioning -- that is absolutley fine. Those consequences are good, essental in fact. They're central to freedom of speech. But if the concequecnes are being No Platformed, Or expelled from polite society, or sacked, or harassed so relentelssly that you stop saying what you wanted to say, or banned from twitter, or arrested, or jailed, or shot, then that is unnacceptable. And these are the concequences that all supposed freedom fighters of today and crazy political extremists who utter the words "your free speech has consequences" are really talking about. By "concequences", they mean "punishment". They mean, "we'll teach you a lesson if you say that thing". They're making a threat. Be very worried when you hear people speak of "consequences" for what we think and say.

[ONISAIBOT]

Freedom of speech doesn't mean justified consequences by people of opposing opinions

[censorship = death :(]

Początkowo opublikowane przez ONISAIBOT:

Freedom of speech doesn't mean justified consequences by people of opposing opinions

ok, and could you tell me what that means?

what is justified? how do you measure that? Who gets to measure that?

unless i'm misreading and you're agreeing with me. who gets to decide?

[DeapNight]

Suck the chat ban up and wait 7 days

Also DE can make its own rules what they want you to say in chat free speach just applys in public spaces not in privat

For easier understanding you can go out and say i hates these ♥♥♥♥♥♥s

And you can do that bcs of free spech and bcs you are in a puplic space

But if you are in a capanie that has rules like " no hatespeech"
You cant go around and say i hate these ♥♥♥♥♥♥

Bcs you are not in a public space you are in a buildig owned by a corperation that has certain rules
That means that the free speech law does not apply

[ONISAIBOT]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Mr_Oso:

Początkowo opublikowane przez ONISAIBOT:

Freedom of speech doesn't mean justified consequences by people of opposing opinions

ok, and could you tell me what that means?

what is justified? how do you measure that? Who gets to measure that?

unless i'm misreading and you're agreeing with me. who gets to decide?

That's my point. Nobody gets to decide, there is no right or wrong in language, there is just people being offended by words claiming what is right or wrong and expecting they have the right to cripple language by law.

[censorship = death :(]

Początkowo opublikowane przez DeapNight:

Suck the chat ban up and wait 7 days

Also DE can make its own rules what they want you to say in chat free speach just applys in public spaces not in privat

For easier understanding you can go out and say i hates these ♥♥♥♥♥♥s

And you can do that bcs of free spech and bcs you are in a puplic space

But if you are in a capanie that has rules like " no hatespeech"
You cant go around and say i hate these ♥♥♥♥♥♥

Bcs you are not in a public space you are in a buildig owned by a corperation that has certain rules
That means that the free speech law does not apply

oh no, i didn't gett banned. i removed myself from the game.

hey when i fought for lbgt rights in my colege years this isnt' what i had in mind. it is sad to see how crap this has gone.

sure it would be nice not to get called slurs but you can't turn arround and stop people for being ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

i'll take an honest and misinformed bigot over a silently justified one with a double standard in law or practice. no one should force acceptance. Even transfeminist activists are againsts using law to coerce Non Binary idenitty. sure it sucks when some jerk calles you the wrong gender but we can't use the same tools or rule of law to stop their expression or force them to respect something they won't respect.

the master's tools do not dismantle the master's house.

[censorship = death :(]

Początkowo opublikowane przez ᠌ ᠌:

You know what's funny? They play favorites with certain players.

Some don't get banned or warned at all for the crap they say in Misandrist's and Tellurium's presence.

and who do you call?

talk with customer service. do what you can, explain your reasons why. get the facts and show them.

the people there are paid to listen to you. why not make the best of it?

https://forums.warframe.com/

https://digitalextremes.zendesk.com/hc/en-us

[censorship = death :(]

Początkowo opublikowane przez ᠌ ᠌:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Mr_Oso:

and who do you call?

talk with customer service. do what you can, explain your reasons why. get the facts and show them.

the people there are paid to listen to you. why not make the best of it?

I already had sent a ticket to DE's borderline non-existent Customer Support a long time ago but they don't care.

well, i'm sure others agree with you. find your friends and make a stink about it. get the fact right, and keep it up. it takes time but anything good or worth having is a long haul.

get loud, get peeved. and get heard.

[Artek [General]]

The problem with "doesn't mean there's no consequences" is that that's LITERALLY what freedom of speech means.
FoS means that you can speek out your mind and wont suffer life-threatening or life-ruining consequences.

"Sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me (physically)".

[censorship = death :(]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Artek General:

The problem with "doesn't mean there's no consequences" is that that's LITERALLY what freedom of speech means.
FoS means that you can speek out your mind and wont suffer life-threatening or life-ruining consequences.

"Sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me (physically)".

and censorship over jokes is lording over a community simply because "hey i have authority so you should obey what i say because I SAID SO" .

that's how you treat small children. and even then that's treating them poorly.

[WereChicken]

Początkowo opublikowane przez DeapNight:

Suck the chat ban up and wait 7 days

Also DE can make its own rules what they want you to say in chat free speach just applys in public spaces not in privat

For easier understanding you can go out and say i hates these ♥♥♥♥♥♥s

And you can do that bcs of free spech and bcs you are in a puplic space

But if you are in a capanie that has rules like " no hatespeech"
You cant go around and say i hate these ♥♥♥♥♥♥

Bcs you are not in a public space you are in a buildig owned by a corperation that has certain rules
That means that the free speech law does not apply

Wow, you might want to read up on freedom of speech as you clearly have no idea what it actually means if you think companies can just remove that right on their property.

[Briggs]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Mr_Oso:

Początkowo opublikowane przez ONISAIBOT:

Freedom of speech doesn't mean justified consequences by people of opposing opinions

ok, and could you tell me what that means?

what is justified? how do you measure that? Who gets to measure that?

unless i'm misreading and you're agreeing with me. who gets to decide?

Getting labeled an so called "islamophobe" because you mention that the saudis are throwing gays from rooftops or hang them on cranes along the city streets as an example. Losing your livelyhood and social reputation in the process all in the name of equality and tolerance. You know, the usual leftists tactics.

[Ghin]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Briggs:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Mr_Oso:

ok, and could you tell me what that means?

what is justified? how do you measure that? Who gets to measure that?

unless i'm misreading and you're agreeing with me. who gets to decide?

Getting labeled an so called "islamophobe" because you mention that the saudis are throwing gays from rooftops or hang them on cranes along the city streets as an example. Losing your livelyhood and social reputation in the process all in the name of equality and tolerance. You know, the usual leftists tactics.

What are you even talking about? You're on a video game forum right now.

[Shard of Manus]

I'm not gonna take either side here, because I don't give a darn about the argument particularly - but I'll add a side note.

Warframe is a privately owned game - so DE can do whatever they like to the players' profiles that choose to play it - especially since its free to play.

If they explicitly state that certain language isn't tolerated, be that for justified reasons or not, and that they'll temporarily ban people from the chat for ignoring said warnings - there's really no cause for complaint when you disregard the warning and get banned.

If someone came into my house screeching and preaching evangelism, and I told them to stop trying to spread their religion or I'll kick them out, I'd be fully entitled to do so. Why? Because I don't want them there, doing what they're doing.

Yes, you are free to say what you want to say. DE aren't going to bring a lawsuit down on your head because you said 'Nezha was a trap', they're not gonna send some of their Dev team round your house to give you a beating, and they're not even going to permanently ban you from playing their game in its entirety... they aren't infringing upon your right to free speech, they're simply exercising their right to maintain the particular atmosphere they want in the game's region chat.

I'm a firm believer in free speech - and while this "freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences" is a little too ambiguous and threatening to be considered completely true - in the circumstances provided, it's perfectly reasonable.

I don't think there's a need to ban anyone in chat for saying anything in particular - we have the chat filter for that, so people easily offended can just avoid seeing any of that stuff - but at the same time, if DE want to ban people, or deem it necessary... so be it.

Either don't break the rules, or get banned. To be honest, I can't imagine there is any kind of need to have a discussion on a topic that would result in being banned in the Warframe chat. There's a lot of other stuff to talk about.

[orangebish]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Shard of Manus:

If they explicitly state that certain language isn't tolerated, be that for justified reasons or not, and that they'll temporarily ban people from the chat for ignoring said warnings - there's really no cause for complaint when you disregard the warning and get banned.

Except it's not stated anywhere. We don't have any info from DE on what words will get you banned, how long the ban will last, why there is no warning before the ban, or who has the authority to issue the said ban. All the info we have is coming from the players who were banned without any prior warning for a week (!) for saying "trap" or "gay", even in a totally non-offensive context.

[DeapNight]

Początkowo opublikowane przez orangebish:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Shard of Manus:

If they explicitly state that certain language isn't tolerated, be that for justified reasons or not, and that they'll temporarily ban people from the chat for ignoring said warnings - there's really no cause for complaint when you disregard the warning and get banned.

Except it's not stated anywhere. We don't have any info from DE on what words will get you banned, how long the ban will last, why there is no warning before the ban, or who has the authority to issue the said ban. All the info we have is coming from the players who were banned without any prior warning for a week (!) for saying "trap" or "gay", even in a totally non-offensive context.

It says in their tos that explicit / offensive words and so on bannable are