Delete the Zenistar from the game

[FRIENDLY MAN]

Having to tie long combos with a slow weapon defeats the entire utility of this weapon. It used to be a fun defensive trap that synergized with Atlas, Vauban and others, and now it's worthless. Initial cast gives a meagre 10 seconds. I wish we could have the old one back, the new one may as well not exist.

[r-kid]

Use it normally to build up your combo counter before deploying the disc.


Higher combo counter equals longer duration on the disc.

[DLOZanma]

Oh noooo you have to put a speed mod on it whaaat a boooother i can't auto-win anymooore

[FRIENDLY MAN]

Originally posted by r-kid:

Use it normally to build up your combo counter before deploying the disc.


Higher combo counter equals longer duration on the disc.

That destroys the practicality of it's utility. Even a 4x combo counter offers a far shorter duration than the old default.

[Watermelons]

Originally posted by SUPERIOR MAN OF WONGUS WORDS:

Originally posted by r-kid:

Use it normally to build up your combo counter before deploying the disc.


Higher combo counter equals longer duration on the disc.

That destroys the practicality of it's utility. Even a 4x combo counter offers a far shorter duration than the old default.

And if you took a minute to figure out the newly reconfigured mods that were for channeling, you could realize that it can take only but a moment to reach beyond a x4 multiplier now. It's very easy.

[FRIENDLY MAN]

Originally posted by Something Something Watermelons:

Originally posted by SUPERIOR MAN OF WONGUS WORDS:

That destroys the practicality of it's utility. Even a 4x combo counter offers a far shorter duration than the old default.

And if you took a minute to figure out the newly reconfigured mods that were for channeling, you could realize that it can take only but a moment to reach beyond a x4 multiplier now. It's very easy.

Regardless, you shouldn't have to combo just to place down a disk that lasts longer than ten seconds.

[Watermelons]

Originally posted by SUPERIOR MAN OF WONGUS WORDS:

Originally posted by Something Something Watermelons:

And if you took a minute to figure out the newly reconfigured mods that were for channeling, you could realize that it can take only but a moment to reach beyond a x4 multiplier now. It's very easy.

Regardless, you shouldn't have to combo just to place down a disk that lasts longer than ten seconds.

Why not? Give a solid reason.

[FRIENDLY MAN]

Originally posted by Something Something Watermelons:

Originally posted by SUPERIOR MAN OF WONGUS WORDS:

Regardless, you shouldn't have to combo just to place down a disk that lasts longer than ten seconds.

Why not? Give a solid reason.

Because the whole reason to select the Zenistar is for the utility of its disk. It was useful because it could be rapidly called upon to mitigate a group of enemies rushing a single corridor. If you have to combo into them first then you are on a short timer over which you have to throw the disk into a suitable location, which likely wont be the place you were just comboing.

You also have to mod the weapon against the effectiveness of the disk just to efficiently go through the tedium of swinging Zenistar around a bunch before you can use it effectively for its ability. You shouldn't have to shoot a bunch of enemies before you can use an ability, and you shouldn't have to slash a bunch of enemies before the Redeemer can shoot.

The purpose of this weapon, it's uniqueness comes from the disk, not the heavy blade. It was fine before, and served the purpose it was intended to serve without the tedium and flow breaking activation method.

[Watermelons]

Originally posted by SUPERIOR MAN OF WONGUS WORDS:

Originally posted by Something Something Watermelons:

Why not? Give a solid reason.

Because the whole reason to select the Zenistar is for the utility of its disk. It was useful because it could be rapidly called upon to mitigate a group of enemies rushing a single corridor.

If it's a single corridor, then 10 seconds should be enough to have the disc hurt the hell out of them while cleaning up using the blade. It's not like the range is limited by your combo counter.

You also have to mod the weapon against the effectiveness of the disk just to efficiently go through the tedium of swinging Zenistar around a bunch before you can use it effectively for its ability.

True enough about the modding part. I suggest Corrupt Charge, it immediately bumps your melee up to a minimum of a 30 hit counter, or a x2 multiplier. So, 20 seconds minimum, can't go below that.

You shouldn't have to shoot a bunch of enemies before you can use an ability, and you shouldn't have to slash a bunch of enemies before the Redeemer can shoot.

Baruuk's Desert Wind, Equinox's Mend and Maim's main effects coming from recasting after killing, Mesa's 1, Nidus' 3 and 4. But I know what you mean.

The purpose of this weapon, it's uniqueness comes from the disk, not the heavy blade. It was fine before, and served the purpose it was intended to serve without the tedium and flow breaking activation method.

You aren't even naming the real purpose you actually care about, throwing it over a defense target at the start of a wave and basically afking as long as you're protecting it from gunfire. That's probably exactly why they did that, just like they made all the changes to Blood Rush. In some ways, melees across the board were all brought up to a new and better minimum performance, but for the outliers that could immediately outperform the ♥♥♥♥ out of everything else, they at the very least lowered their immediate performance, or normalized it a bit better in the case of Condition Overload.

We can call it tedium all day long, but we'll all have to accept that DE is trying to engage the player, making them play and in order to get more out of the immediate gameplay loop.
I'm mostly giving you a hard time for the dumb-ass thread title. "Ugh just delete the whole Zenistar now that it's changed in an uncomfortable direction".

[Titan]

Originally posted by SUPERIOR MAN OF WONGUS WORDS:

Originally posted by r-kid:

Use it normally to build up your combo counter before deploying the disc.


Higher combo counter equals longer duration on the disc.

That destroys the practicality of it's utility. Even a 4x combo counter offers a far shorter duration than the old default.

You do realize the cap is x12 now, right?

[No_Quarter]

Purpose of Zenistar was to be a broken toy that helps afk farmers and plebs.

Now you gotta actually be a good boy, do good in order to gain higher benefit from it. Weird concept, work more to do more....

Zenistar was obviously broken, if you honestly think it wasn't then you are a bot. No offense intended, just I do not see anyone claiming that it was fine to have any capabilities to understand balance. Also you seem more angry than rational about it which supports it but I may be wrong.

Tho for a current duration of a disc I think charge should be a bit faster and more fluent.

People cry about Zenistar and Zenith still has cancer enriched aids and sprinkled with diarrhea of a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ screen shake that makes everyone dizzy if you use primary fire.

Also Sigma & Octantis shield throw did not seem to work today, tho iirc it worked yesterday

[FRIENDLY MAN]

Originally posted by Something Something Watermelons:

Originally posted by SUPERIOR MAN OF WONGUS WORDS:

Because the whole reason to select the Zenistar is for the utility of its disk. It was useful because it could be rapidly called upon to mitigate a group of enemies rushing a single corridor.

If it's a single corridor, then 10 seconds should be enough to have the disc hurt the hell out of them while cleaning up using the blade. It's not like the range is limited by your combo counter.

You also have to mod the weapon against the effectiveness of the disk just to efficiently go through the tedium of swinging Zenistar around a bunch before you can use it effectively for its ability.

True enough about the modding part. I suggest Corrupt Charge, it immediately bumps your melee up to a minimum of a 30 hit counter, or a x2 multiplier. So, 20 seconds minimum, can't go below that.

You shouldn't have to shoot a bunch of enemies before you can use an ability, and you shouldn't have to slash a bunch of enemies before the Redeemer can shoot.

Baruuk's Desert Wind, Equinox's Mend and Maim's main effects coming from recasting after killing, Mesa's 1, Nidus' 3 and 4. But I know what you mean.

The purpose of this weapon, it's uniqueness comes from the disk, not the heavy blade. It was fine before, and served the purpose it was intended to serve without the tedium and flow breaking activation method.

You aren't even naming the real purpose you actually care about, throwing it over a defense target at the start of a wave and basically afking as long as you're protecting it from gunfire. That's probably exactly why they did that, just like they made all the changes to Blood Rush. In some ways, melees across the board were all brought up to a new and better minimum performance, but for the outliers that could immediately outperform the ♥♥♥♥ out of everything else, they at the very least lowered their immediate performance, or normalized it a bit better in the case of Condition Overload.

We can call it tedium all day long, but we'll all have to accept that DE is trying to engage the player, making them play and in order to get more out of the immediate gameplay loop.
I'm mostly giving you a hard time for the dumb-ass thread title. "Ugh just delete the whole Zenistar now that it's changed in an uncomfortable direction".

Hand on heart, I've never used it on a defense objective. I always had fun using it to help control the flow of a corridor. If you are using the Zenistar as a melee weapon to gain it's CC capabilities, you are effectively cleaning out the enemies that you would use the CC capabilities on, rendering it obsolete. The combo will decay likely before any more enemies show up, with the only real exception I can think of being some survival missions assuming the spawns don't break and little timmy hasn't ran half way across the map away from the squad.

Also since when did anyone care about cheesing a defense objective? Those are the easiest things in the world, on some occasions they have what, 50k health? I have thousands of hours and have only seen one die maybe once. There's a higher likelihood of the squad getting wiped out in higher level content. The only time the defense objective is even a challenge is when you have to do one of those "defend the add mongoloid" objectives where a spastic jumps around the map until the AI breaks, at which point you can't even camp him with Zenistar.

Now that Zenistar is gutted I guess there's no other ways to cheese a defense objective though huh. Zenistar has been singled out but the logic isn't consistent at all across the game. The only thing they've done is butchered a tool I enjoyed and turned it into ♥♥♥♥. Warframe isn't suddenly challenging now, nor are defense objectives. All that's changed is DE has detracted one fun tool from the sandbox that is synergizing different Warframes and items in order to achieve fun and effective combos. Now it's a waste of time to use in most cases and has a terrible gameplay flow.

[particlewaves]

I just got it as a login reward yesterday...

[FRIENDLY MAN]

Originally posted by particlewaves:

I just got it as a login reward yesterday...

I'm sorry you didn't get to experience it when it was good.

[Chris]

yeah just delete it , its worthless trash now just like the zenith and the azima

[Bz9a]

been using this weapon for 215 days it used to be great defensive weapon and yes this weapon is all about that disk now i have to do comobs with super slow weapon for more seconds just delete it