What's the general consensus post- melee mod nerfs?

[Kittenpox]

I could be completely wrong on this - so I apologise in advance.

But as I understand it, Maiming Strike is going to be changed to be a multiplicative crit bonus, rather than an additive one - so a weapon with 5% crit chance won't have 95% during slide attacks anymore.
Similarly, Condition Overload is apparently getting a swing from the Nerf bat too - capping out at a maximum of 3 status conditions. Which means that my current 10-Status build (Plague Kripath, for I,P,S,Viral,Blast,Knockdown + Cryotra for Magnetic,Gas,Toxin + Saryn for Corrosive) is kinda pointless now.

Like, a nerf on meme-strike was to be expected, and as I understand it the numbers are going to be rebalanced so they're still useful - but I'm not quite sure what to aim for next. Having 6 status effects on a weapon which only needs 3 makes my Zaw less-useful, and I figure other people will have their own ideas of what to aim for next.
Rivens don't really affect me - I don't have many worth mentioning, so the 1 Dispo on SecuraLecta doesn't really matter as far as I'm concerned.

This isn't a complaint about the changes, btw. Simply that I'm feeling slightly lost for what to do next when it comes to melee weapons, instead of using my CO-zaw, and if others (who used to use MS/CO) want to share their plans moving forward then I'm interested in hearing them. :-)

[Pakaku]

I've made plenty of good builds without relying on 'meta' mods like Maiming Strike or Condition Overload. My guess is in the end, after the changes and base buffs, we'll be just fine.

[[Meyo]Frakura]

For condition overload, I think they partially negate that nerf aspect by doubling damage per status to 120%. So thats 360% total for just 3 status. Didn't think there was people that would try and proc all the elements, as I would just carry 1 or 2 on my melee and get that condition overload proc.

[Watermelons]

Nguyên văn bởi MeyoFrakura:

Didn't think there was people that would try and proc all the elements,

I remember when hitting Lech Kril or other weakspot-damage-only bosses would get proc'd with every single status if you hit them with the main combo of Swirling Tiger. That was fun, but unfortunately before the existence of Condition Overload.

[Walrus-Sama]

Maiming Strike and Condition Overload were always overpowered. I'm surprised they weren't nerfed sooner.

[talkingmute]

Nguyên văn bởi Walrus-Sama:

Maiming Strike and Condition Overload were always overpowered. I'm surprised they weren't nerfed sooner.

Yeah pretty much. I don't know why this wasn't nerfed sooner aswell.

I just hope this is enough to stop people with spin-attack macros who just fly around at mach-3.

[RogueSoldier]

I feel ya @OP, i did the same; I ran saryn with a Plague Kripath (built hybrid SC/crit) for: IPS + 3 Elemental (+knockdown) backed with a kitgun (rattleguts build for 100% SC) damage types: P, S, +3 elemental's (some overlap with the kripath) all together with Saryn's elemental's to really lay on as many stat proc's, within a fraction of a moment, to rev up condition overload as much as possible. I will miss being able to exploit condition overload like that...

Needless to say this nerf was long overdue and I do agree with DE bring the nerf bats to all these things; these mods were bandaids. At the very least they're letting us keep condition overload to 3 procs and doubling the damage modifier.

I do look forward to reworking these builds on my own again to see what I can come up after the changes.

[Caidezes]

Basically everything that's part of the meta is severely overpowered. From mods to weapons to frames, it should all get nerfed.

But some people don't like it because they want to one-shot everything and anything less than that literally ruins the game for them.

You don't need either Maiming Strike or Condition Overload to do high level content. Zaws were just like the Catchmoon; why use any other melee weapon when you could be using your zaw to wipe entire rooms out of existence in the blink of an eye?

[Mhblis]

Honestly feeling that the game will be better over all after its all shaken out.

More options is always better than a few things standing head and shoulder above the rest.

---

That said I am being optemistic since there are still some basic flaws that really need to be adddressed first to really make this work. ie at what level are we actually aiming to be balanced?.

Level 60 enemies, 100, 200.

Thats alone will decide if stuff and builds are actually viable.

For me I have set the mark at level 100-120 enemies. So Sortie 3 and Mot Survival at the 25minute mark.

[Renkuya]

Nguyên văn bởi Caidezes:

Basically everything that's part of the meta is severely overpowered. From mods to weapons to frames, it should all get nerfed.

But some people don't like it because they want to one-shot everything and anything less than that literally ruins the game for them.

You don't need either Maiming Strike or Condition Overload to do high level content. Zaws were just like the Catchmoon; why use any other melee weapon when you could be using your zaw to wipe entire rooms out of existence in the blink of an eye?

I don't really agree with this. Zaws aren't like Kitguns because the catchmoon is OP. Kitguns generally can build really strongly in either direction (status or crit). The same can be said about Zaws though and in my opinion that's what makes normal weapons less appealing. Sure zaws/kitguns are ugly but when you're building for the meta you don't build for cool.

Condition Overload is still going to be disgusting on zaws since it's not really that much of a nerf unless you were one of the few people running hyper meta builds. Meanwhile, if maiming strike is going from additive to multiplicative, that's going to make it virtually useless for a majority of current builds. It would actually take away options because now that 5-10% crit weapon pool becomes entirely useless for crit builds using maiming strike. It improves the chances a little but if you're going crit, why wouldn't you go Zaw or something that can easily hit high if not 100% crit? Doesn't this also do the opposite of the effect of the changes to Reach? Low Crit weapons won't feel maiming strikes effect as much as high crit weapons. So, high crit weapons Maiming strike is still "mandatory" if you're just going to spin for max damage (which with the rest of the rework might not be optimal).

In my opinion, changing maiming strike from one thing to another isn't the right call. It should just be nerfed in the % area and removed from Rivens. If not removed from rivens, capped at no more than what maiming strike can give you. Yes it's insane that you can get almost 200% crit on some weapons just by spinning but it's also insane that Maiming strike gives you that much, the rivens give you WAY more and DE thought the problem was the way the mod was applied.


TL;DR: Maiming strike should give like +40% or something, making it multiplicative instead so it's "less powerful" seems like a typical DE approach. Don't change the code, change numbers! when people riot, change the code because oh god the bottom line. It would take more work probably to cap a single riven stat so just change the math. This makes maiming strike a bad choice for non-crit weapons.

[Kittenpox]

Nguyên văn bởi MeyoFrakura:

For condition overload, I think they partially negate that nerf aspect by doubling damage per status to 120%. So thats 360% total for just 3 status. Didn't think there was people that would try and proc all the elements, as I would just carry 1 or 2 on my melee and get that condition overload proc.

I'm not sure you quite understand the mechanic of how Condition Overload worked, and why it was so powerful. :-)

That +60% damage? Applied once per status. As a 'x1.6'.
So a weapon which had a base damage of 100 would deal 160 damage against a target with one status condition. But with a second status condition that 160dmg would also be multiplied by 1.6, becoming 256. With a third status, 409 damage, and so on.
With the 10 status effects I'm using, it wasn't dealing 700% of the base damage ( 100dmg*(1+(0.6*10)) ), it was dealing 10,995.12% of the base damage ( 100dmg*(1.6^10) ).

If you were using primary/secondary weapons, or other players, to proc the missing status effects and somehow managed to reach 14, it wasn't doing 940% damage, it was dealing '72,057-and-a-half'% damage.

So if we use the new numbers and double the damage bonus per status to 120%, then cap it to 3 status effects, but otherwise keep it identical to its current implementation:
It's not topping out at 460% damage ( 100dmg*(1+(1.2*3)) )
It's going to be topping out at 1064% damage ( 100dmg*(2.2^3) )

Which is still big, and is slightly more than a 5-status build currently is. But is a big step back, and makes the mod less than 1/10th as useful as it currently is in my own build.

That's why it got nerfed.

[Kittenpox]

On an unrelated note, turns out I'd misunderstood the Gas proc - it's an instant effect that doesn't persist which means my build was only truly running 9 status' not 10, which would finally explain why I could never *quite* get my damage to match what I had on paper. :-p

At the moment I'm thinking I'll just ditch the Plague Zaw that I built, and aim to craft something for a Crit-based build (or maybe go back to Paracesis?)
If I can leave a spot for Condition Overload, and let my sentinel add conditions for me rather than relying on the weapon itself to do that, I can still get some benefit from Status' - even though it'll mean dropping Healing Return (gives health, per status) and having to find some other way to self-sustain during high-level combat.

I was considering a combo-based, or channelling-based setup - but combos require enemies to consistently be about (or sacrifice +damage slots for a vague amount of combo duration) and channelling mods seem to be being overhauled, so neither of those quite appeal.

[syngen262]

only got "spin-to-win" memeing-strike during last accolyte alert; it's...okay. But since spinning attacks had their range severely curtailed two "re-ballances" ago and last "re-ballancing act" had all melee attacks stop on tile geometry, Maiming Strike when I got it was already double nerfed to begin with. I will hate to loose all those red-crits though. I truly will.
-le-SIGH-
As for Condition Overload. I JUST won it doing this years Halloween event. JUST in time for the nerf/buff two'fer. So again I have no first hand experince on how good or GOD it was.

I know a lot of meta players are gonna squeal, but to be honest...they should have known DEScot or Pablo were gonna take away their toys. They always do when they realize they have unleashed something that can one-shot. THAT privalage is for Nullifier snipers only.

[BlueBomber]

Nguyên văn bởi syngen262:

They always do when they realize they have unleashed something that can one-shot.

DE be like hey arca plasmor is too op and everyone using it what should we do

> release fulmin
> release catchmoon

oh noo its too strong how could this happen, i mean lol do they test or play their own game?

[GunsForBucks]

We really won't know for sure how this will shake out until the changes drop.

Waiting to rebuild some zaws myself not knowing if I should focus more on crit, status or hybrid.
Got a new riven and just not sure how to go with it.

But really depending on the changes and how they get worked in this rework could end up a buff for a lot of people.

Nguyên văn bởi BlueBomber:

Nguyên văn bởi syngen262:

They always do when they realize they have unleashed something that can one-shot.

DE be like hey arca plasmor is too op and everyone using it what should we do

> release fulmin
> release catchmoon

oh noo its too strong how could this happen, i mean lol do they test or play their own game?

Frankly I wish they would release more guns like the Rubico so they could ease up on the riven dispo. Lack of good choices isn't a great way to balance either.

[No_Quarter]

Increased base damage by about 3x, easier capping on CO (no way you maintained more than 6 pros for 99.9% of the time), more open about stats, heavy attacks dealing crapton.

Ye, sounds like a nerf to me too