Limbo's many step program

[Prince Morrigan]

Limbo is an odd frame. Like REALLY odd. And does far to many steps in a fight in order to actually do anything.
Limbo, Max level in a squad. What would be the first thing he would do at the start of the mission? Other then melee and shooting?
First he sends a group of bad guys to the void. For a moment no one can attack these guys, accept for Limbo. The others could eventually, but they have to have other means of doing so. Next he can freeze them in place, and or place a debuff on them that if they are killed, that debuff spreads outside of the little pocket void.
Early levels, Limbo can be VERY deadly, but in higher missions, even in certain harder fights his abilities are almost useless. Getting down to borderline trolling.
And for a lot of people it can be pretty hard to figure who is in the void and who isn't.
In a sense Limbo needs a MASSIVE rework. Ya maybe some top pro limbo main can do a bunch of things, but its like literally having your brain go on overheat JUST to handle a certain event.
OR do most people just max out range and spam his 4th ability?

[PhellAsleep]

Limbo is crazy useful, though it feels like his mechanics and abilities could do with some streamlining.

For example, when would you not want Stasis to be in effect? Seeing as it no longer affects friendly fire, I don't see why it should be kept a separate ability and not just rolled into the other Rift abilities as an innate effect.

The same can be said of Rift Surge, if it's needed at all. Honestly, I would've expected Rift Surge to be an augment for Limbo's other Rift abilities.

[Hugh Mann]

I just pumped investement into shields and ran adaptation. Ducking into the rift lets my shields restore before my stacks disappear, and I have a komorex and tatsu for damage. I can drop cataclysm from within the rift to isolate a group, and use stasis to line up headshots from within the rift.
It's tacticool.

[Hugh Mann]

also stasis being a toggle means you can not have enemies frozen at the edges or need to reapply cataclysm to let new enemies in. Limbo's about picking your fights, not just freezing everything.

[RustyNaps]

As someone who can properly play limbo here is where he shines the best. Natural Talent really helps here.

Cast 4 on a huge group of enemies, Cast 3 with the augment Rift Torrent and if things are getting hot Cast 2 to stop them in place. Every enemy in your Cataclysm bubble Rift Torrent will grant you a increase in all damage by x percent. Now you can dish it like Chroma while being protected like Frost.

[[DE]SpaceySarah]

Limbo does prove useful in many different kinds of situations, particularly through attributes like his unique control of the Rift Plane and his survivability. For these reasons we do not have any plans to rework Limbo right now, but as always thank you for the discussion!

[Prince Morrigan]

Publicado originalmente por DESpaceySarah:

Limbo does prove useful in many different kinds of situations, particularly through attributes like his unique control of the Rift Plane and his survivability. For these reasons we do not have any plans to rework Limbo right now, but as always thank you for the discussion!

I am just as amazed a DE deity replied.
Ok, I will try to learn a bit more about Limbo.

[No_Quarter]

Publicado originalmente por peppermint hollows:

Publicado originalmente por No_Quarter:

But that is just a perspective, I totally understand the perspective of wanting rewards from the game and not wanting to do any actual work or gameplay for them and that is the only place where Limbo exceeds from all of the warframes. Corwd control, protection, a lot of warframes got that to insane levels, just one warframe in particular lets you jerk off and then alt-tab in the game to see what you got....

Let's not pretend like the game isn't already braindead easy even if you aren't playing Limbo.

Comparing any type of gameplay to no gameplay at all does not really work when you are trying to prove anything. It being easy does not really compare to not being required to have your game as your active window, does not justify it, yet people get 4 Limbo's and they do infinite interception farming without even playing the game which is not just broken but it also ♥♥♥♥♥ on any spark anyone ever had of any cool synergies that will bring them as far.

I have no problem with "easy", I have problem with "no input", easy still requires input and if game was indeed so easy there would not be such elitism about warframe choices like, maybe, just maybe, some warframes are more broken than others and make game instantly easy because you have "one button solution for everything" which makes game too easy and gets players bored to death and makes them leave the game.....

Why do you think Loki was removed from starter warframes? Maybe because "one button solution for everything" (aka his invisibility) dipped player retention and players who picked Loki as started tend to get bored and leave the game? Because they were not involved and no brain power was required to beat anything, whatever happens click 2 adn it's solved, click 4 with Saryn, click Shift with Limbo and let team deal with it or click 4 and let time pass in boredom....

So I have no issues with it being easy, Rhino is easy and good, Nezha, Oberon, many others, tho there is the line where too easy hurts the game and that is where I draw the line and put it into "bad for the game" bin because it in fact is. You can do missions without Limbo, he is not crucial.... but you cannot afk as well... And when one gets spoiled to get rewards by doing nothing, it all goes down from there. Which is shown on Garuda, Khora, they are amazing warframes which so much to them and no one uses them because it is not one button solution to everything, you gotta aim, you gotta watch out... It is not hard, not at all, yet most used things are easiest ones and Khora and Garuda get a bad rep for it, nto because they are bad but because they are not as retarded to play and will not give you rewards for doing nothing and will not auto-complete missions for you.

So effect is not only on players retention but on player's perception of what's good which can be seen in any recruiting chat, full of braindead elitism, if you do not pick Limbo for Arbitration Excavation people leave the group, people started leaving when you do not go for Ivara in interception there because apparently they think that exploit makes it faster.......
Had people leave Plague Star because I picked Harrow and not Chroma.

Tho just one's opinion and one's perspective of what could be improved, I do not want Limbo removed, or Saryn or any of them, just consider player involvement when making a warframe and put it up to the line where it does not cause players to get bored because their brain was not required to be in the game. Like it was done with Wukong, he is no longer afk max survivability, he requires you to be involved and you still have top class survivability.
Limbo still retains level of braindead afk survivability and will always be used because of that, remove it and no one will use him, make him engaging and people will realize that apart from option to not be involved in gameplay you get nothing else from him.

[Handoiron]

Limbo is already "engaging". He has tons of skill synergy.

I just don't get where you're coming from with "one button solution to everything".

The argument can even be made that Limbo's ability to use the rift plane as he does add's another layer of "skill" beyond all other frames because he has to manage when / what / how he puts enemies, allies and himself into and out of the rift.

That to me is highly engaging and requires quite a bit of skill.

I'm insanely bored with the elitist "headshot everything" playstyle though. It doesn't really take that much skill to shoot things in the face.

Limbo can do that AND all the things he already does so everyone should be happy.

[Arbys We Have The Meats]

I don't see why he needs a rework? He's perfectly fine. He really shines on defense missions, and spy missions (you can literally walk through the vault lasers without setting them off while in the rift).

[BurlsoL]

Publicado originalmente por Cheshire the Grey Cat:

Limbo is an odd frame. Like REALLY odd. And does far to many steps in a fight in order to actually do anything.
Limbo, Max level in a squad. What would be the first thing he would do at the start of the mission? Other then melee and shooting?
First he sends a group of bad guys to the void. For a moment no one can attack these guys, accept for Limbo. The others could eventually, but they have to have other means of doing so. Next he can freeze them in place, and or place a debuff on them that if they are killed, that debuff spreads outside of the little pocket void.
Early levels, Limbo can be VERY deadly, but in higher missions, even in certain harder fights his abilities are almost useless. Getting down to borderline trolling.
And for a lot of people it can be pretty hard to figure who is in the void and who isn't.
In a sense Limbo needs a MASSIVE rework. Ya maybe some top pro limbo main can do a bunch of things, but its like literally having your brain go on overheat JUST to handle a certain event.
OR do most people just max out range and spam his 4th ability?

You're looking at Limbo wrong. Limbo is not a murder everything frame. He is a CC frame. But, you need to have a squad with some clue in their head about how Limbo works, or what your intentions are or else they will stand there trying to shoot at rifted enemies. This unfortunately makes advanced methods only really useful in a planned squad. This is why 9/10 of everyone who uses Limbo doesn't know how to use the frame beyond sprinting around in the rift, or camping inside their bubble.

Banish is not a blunt instrument, it is used for specific intentions. With banish and stasis, Limbo can selectively target enemies or groups to make them frozen and vulnerable to anything in the rift. This means that if you or squad members are in a cataclysm bubble, you can banish enemies outside the bubble to lock them down and murder them from otherwise safety. Banish can also be used defensively to keep weaker team members from dying (useful with the augment), or keep defense targets immune to damage from anything outside the rift. In short, usage of this means taking responsibility for anything you banish and showing proper initiative.

Stasis is really the key skill that Limbo has. It isn't location based and will apply to all enemies that are in the void. This means that rather than dashing through corridors while in rift while squad members get stuck with the alerted enemies, you can stasis and rift groups to lock them down and keep squad members from having to do killing or take damage while they chase after you. It also lets you easily kill whatever things you targeted since they can't fight back. With cataclysm, it lets you make a whole room frozen and vulnerable to killing.

Surge is only useful if you've already mastered use of banish, stasis, and cataclysm and have a coordinated squad. With proper usage it allows you to lock down many hallways quickly and letting a banish flow from room to room by selectively killing targets as you move.

With cataclysm, keep in mind that anything inside can be damaged by anything that is rifted. This means that you can put your bubble somewhere other than where you are to put things in stasis, and roll to enter rift yourself in order to kill everything inside. This is more effective with long duration and no additional range since it limits the rate that the bubble shrinks and can be used to completely bottleneck a hallway. Tighter area means that you can use weapons with area effect weapons and hit everything instead of needing to kill singular enemies along an entire hemisphere.

For weapons, being that Limbo has the unique ability to decide what fights you want to fight, weapon choice tends to be slightly different than your standard loadout. You can, for example, draw a bow or reload while in the rift, and fire in the moment you leave the rift before preparing another shot. With Rolling Guard https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Rolling_Guard, it effectively allows you to be immune to damage while you shoot. This makes using some self-damage weapons less risky, and occasionally extremely effective even at close range. This also lets you make use of high damage bows (or both like Lenz) without the inconveniences of being vulnerable while drawing. The same applies with sniper rifles and similar weapons, where you can pick off targets, rift, reload, rift, shoot. Depending on mission type and squad, plan for either mass destruction or selecting singular hard targets.

[Sc0re]

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[Wolfguarde]

Publicado originalmente por BurlsoL:

*snip*

One useful mechanic of the rift that you forgot to add: While guns can't target enemies on the opposite side of the rift (inside to outside, or vice versa), warframe abilities can, from memory. Limbo and Mesa are a match made in heaven.