What's the best Scythe Zaw combination?

[PossessingSpirit09]

I've seen alot of youtubers and players using em, decimating enemies, wondering how to build it - which parts are needed

[-=GHS=-BoonDock™]

Use Hate its better, unless you got the zaw riven.

[CROSS:FADE]

owh you mean Dokrahm ?

[PossessingSpirit09]

Originally posted by wild_bytes97:

owh you mean Dokrahm ?

I think? I'm not really sure.

Originally posted by -=GHS=-BoonDock™:

Use Hate its better, unless you got the zaw riven.

Prove it, cuz I'm most likely sure Zaws are the best within their respective melee categories.

[Sceles]

Zaws are far from the best for every single weapon type except maybe rapier. Plague Kripath used to be very powerful for Condition Overload builds but now CO has been nerfed so there's little point in using them anymore.

[Totally Innocent Chatbot]

Originally posted by Sceles:

Zaws are far from the best for every single weapon type except maybe rapier. Plague Kripath used to be very powerful for Condition Overload builds but now CO has been nerfed so there's little point in using them anymore.

? Condition Overload is still the single most powerful melee mod in the game, by several orders of magnitude. Now a mandatory mod on every single melee in the game.

[Sceles]

Originally posted by Totally Innocent Chatbot:

Originally posted by Sceles:

Zaws are far from the best for every single weapon type except maybe rapier. Plague Kripath used to be very powerful for Condition Overload builds but now CO has been nerfed so there's little point in using them anymore.

? Condition Overload is still the single most powerful melee mod in the game, by several orders of magnitude. Now a mandatory mod on every single melee in the game.

Are you aware that CO stacks additively now? There is no reason to focus on CO to get 8+ status effects on the same target. Having viral on melee used to multiply your entire melee dmg by 1,6 times, now it's just 120% more base dmg.

And adding to what I already said before: the stats of Zaws got adjusted, same for regular weapons. Prior knowledge no longer applies to anything. Zaw scythes have massively less range than regular scythes, lower crit and crit dmg, lower disposition too. The one thing that stands out is Plague Keewar's massive raw dmg. Edit: Said something about Cyath, but that would make it machete. My bad. Edit 2: I think a Dokrahm scythe would actually be worth it, but would I call it better than Hate or Reaper P... hard to say, they have very different stat distribution.

[Kittenpox]

https://semlar.com/zawcalc
Not sure if the stats there are up-to-date, but its a useful tool otherwise.

On the topic of melee range, the change to Reach / Primed Reach adding a fixed distance rather than applying a multiplier has allowed more potential from close-range weapons.
So it's not un-viable to use them - unless you were hoping to spin-to-win; in which case stick with polearms.

[No_Quarter]

Originally posted by Sceles:

Originally posted by Totally Innocent Chatbot:

? Condition Overload is still the single most powerful melee mod in the game, by several orders of magnitude. Now a mandatory mod on every single melee in the game.

Are you aware that CO stacks additively now? There is no reason to focus on CO to get 8+ status effects on the same target. Having viral on melee used to multiply your entire melee dmg by 1,6 times, now it's just 120% more base dmg.

And adding to what I already said before: the stats of Zaws got adjusted, same for regular weapons. Prior knowledge no longer applies to anything. Zaw scythes have massively less range than regular scythes, lower crit and crit dmg, lower disposition too. The one thing that stands out is Plague Keewar's massive raw dmg. Edit: Said something about Cyath, but that would make it machete. My bad. Edit 2: I think a Dokrahm scythe would actually be worth it, but would I call it better than Hate or Reaper P... hard to say, they have very different stat distribution.

I am surprised that when they talk about CO nerf people ALWAYS leave out the fact that BASE melee damage has been trippled.

And that you can reach 12x combo which for Weeping Wounds means instant 100% status which further means that status effects will have more effect in killing. Which further means effects have been buffed.

So base damage buffed as ♥♥♥♥, status effects being more often and dealing more with it... Would it make sense to nerf mod that would turn that output into what was probably 20x combo with 10 status effects pre reword? Because IF CO stacked the way it did there would be no reason to use firearms apart from Cyanex for status.

So entire equation changed quite a bit, as it was CO had too much impact in the build, now it is still one of the most powerful melee mods in the game. So nerfed from op to top 3? Sounds bad?

It is weird people do not comprehend the basic change of the equation that CO is no longer A MUST for high levels, now you can play without it but it will help A LOT and it is till an end game build to use CO and best melee build possible to run Blood Rush, Weeping Wounds and Condition Overload. Period, you cannot top that build with anything else in the game. And it actually benefits you to throw out Primed Pressure Point for anything else cause of diminishing returns, math.

Tho think major part of the confusion is that a lot of people think popular youtubers are popular because they are good at everything, Brozime raged on day 1 of the change and majority of playerbase is not capable to do basic math so we have this on our hands, people who take one thing out of the equation and call it out. Which he did, he said that CO is dead and you can use any other mod instead to have better effect. Which could not be further from the truth, but meta plebs bought it.

Also NO ONE was ever capable of keeping 8 status effects reliably, that was just possible with tryharding and luck, impact status is 2 seconds, randomness of status effects just does not allow it to be reliable. Unless you just switch between cyanex and 100% Tigris, in which case you got no time to swing your melee.

So honestly it was bad and random, also one mod being too strong was bad, it is better to have weapons stronger and mods to compliment it which is the case now.
It works quite well when you build for it, ditch PPP, use combo I mentioned BR, CO and WW, and tell me how can you top it? And tell me how bad is it against super high level enemies.

I'll wait.

[Sceles]

Originally posted by No_Quarter:

Originally posted by Sceles:

Are you aware that CO stacks additively now? There is no reason to focus on CO to get 8+ status effects on the same target. Having viral on melee used to multiply your entire melee dmg by 1,6 times, now it's just 120% more base dmg.

And adding to what I already said before: the stats of Zaws got adjusted, same for regular weapons. Prior knowledge no longer applies to anything. Zaw scythes have massively less range than regular scythes, lower crit and crit dmg, lower disposition too. The one thing that stands out is Plague Keewar's massive raw dmg. Edit: Said something about Cyath, but that would make it machete. My bad. Edit 2: I think a Dokrahm scythe would actually be worth it, but would I call it better than Hate or Reaper P... hard to say, they have very different stat distribution.

I am surprised that when they talk about CO nerf people ALWAYS leave out the fact that BASE melee damage has been trippled.

And that you can reach 12x combo which for Weeping Wounds means instant 100% status which further means that status effects will have more effect in killing. Which further means effects have been buffed.

So base damage buffed as ♥♥♥♥, status effects being more often and dealing more with it... Would it make sense to nerf mod that would turn that output into what was probably 20x combo with 10 status effects pre reword? Because IF CO stacked the way it did there would be no reason to use firearms apart from Cyanex for status.

So entire equation changed quite a bit, as it was CO had too much impact in the build, now it is still one of the most powerful melee mods in the game. So nerfed from op to top 3? Sounds bad?

It is weird people do not comprehend the basic change of the equation that CO is no longer A MUST for high levels, now you can play without it but it will help A LOT and it is till an end game build to use CO and best melee build possible to run Blood Rush, Weeping Wounds and Condition Overload. Period, you cannot top that build with anything else in the game. And it actually benefits you to throw out Primed Pressure Point for anything else cause of diminishing returns, math.

Tho think major part of the confusion is that a lot of people think popular youtubers are popular because they are good at everything, Brozime raged on day 1 of the change and majority of playerbase is not capable to do basic math so we have this on our hands, people who take one thing out of the equation and call it out. Which he did, he said that CO is dead and you can use any other mod instead to have better effect. Which could not be further from the truth, but meta plebs bought it.

Also NO ONE was ever capable of keeping 8 status effects reliably, that was just possible with tryharding and luck, impact status is 2 seconds, randomness of status effects just does not allow it to be reliable. Unless you just switch between cyanex and 100% Tigris, in which case you got no time to swing your melee.

So honestly it was bad and random, also one mod being too strong was bad, it is better to have weapons stronger and mods to compliment it which is the case now.
It works quite well when you build for it, ditch PPP, use combo I mentioned BR, CO and WW, and tell me how can you top it? And tell me how bad is it against super high level enemies.

I'll wait.

The point is that this is why Plague Kripath zaws were popular, because of Condition Overload. Now having one status effect more or less doesn't really make a big difference so they're not nearly as good as they were.

And yes, 8+ status effects was/is easy, because you can shoot and then melee and sentinel applies its status automatically without you having to do anything. I was killing sortie bosses in one shot with Mara Detron + Sarpa(1 shot from both) and could easily kill lvl165 noxes from behind in the simulacrum without even having the AI paused. This meant I could take any frame to content of any lvl and completely cheese whatever I was facing. Even the current heavy attack slash meta does not compare to the dmg I could do with Sarpa.

[No_Quarter]

Originally posted by Sceles:

The point is that this is why Plague Kripath zaws were popular, because of Condition Overload. Now having one status effect more or less doesn't really make a big difference so they're not nearly as good as they were.

And yes, 8+ status effects was/is easy, because you can shoot and then melee and sentinel applies its status automatically without you having to do anything. I was killing sortie bosses in one shot with Mara Detron + Sarpa(1 shot from both) and could easily kill lvl165 noxes from behind in the simulacrum without even having the AI paused. This meant I could take any frame to content of any lvl and completely cheese whatever I was facing. Even the current heavy attack slash meta does not compare to the dmg I could do with Sarpa.

one shot to something that was supposed to be hard does sound alright to you?

mkay, then you may not understand what Steve meant by rebalancing.

yes, playerbase who can only play cheese stuff may leave, but playerbase of players who may enjoy actual gameplay will come instead.

Having one combo like you mentioned, Sarpa, Detron, Sweeper that cheeses lvl 98678976 is bad, sure, there were 3 more weapons you could use to do that.... but that does not sound broken to you? 300+ weapons in the game and one combo just better....

Also, you forgetting rage mode that is coming?

[Henry of Skalitz]

Dokhram, Shtung, Vargeet II Jai
Base stats:
155 slash
108 puncture
46 impact
10% status chance
32% crit chance
0.95 speed (you're going to use berserker anyway so it doesn't matter)
2x crit damage
Available builds:
- crit
- hybrid

To anyone saying zaws aren't best melee weapons in the game:
https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Exodia_Contagion

[Sceles]

Originally posted by No_Quarter:

Originally posted by Sceles:

The point is that this is why Plague Kripath zaws were popular, because of Condition Overload. Now having one status effect more or less doesn't really make a big difference so they're not nearly as good as they were.

And yes, 8+ status effects was/is easy, because you can shoot and then melee and sentinel applies its status automatically without you having to do anything. I was killing sortie bosses in one shot with Mara Detron + Sarpa(1 shot from both) and could easily kill lvl165 noxes from behind in the simulacrum without even having the AI paused. This meant I could take any frame to content of any lvl and completely cheese whatever I was facing. Even the current heavy attack slash meta does not compare to the dmg I could do with Sarpa.

one shot to something that was supposed to be hard does sound alright to you?

mkay, then you may not understand what Steve meant by rebalancing.

yes, playerbase who can only play cheese stuff may leave, but playerbase of players who may enjoy actual gameplay will come instead.

Having one combo like you mentioned, Sarpa, Detron, Sweeper that cheeses lvl 98678976 is bad, sure, there were 3 more weapons you could use to do that.... but that does not sound broken to you? 300+ weapons in the game and one combo just better....

Also, you forgetting rage mode that is coming?

Look, I said that because CO got nerfed the importance of zaws changed. This is what started all of this. I have not said that melee is completely ♥♥♥♥ now or that the CO nerf shouldn't have happened, yet you're acting like that's exactly what I'm saying. So what the hell are you on about?

[No_Quarter]

Originally posted by Sceles:

Originally posted by No_Quarter:

one shot to something that was supposed to be hard does sound alright to you?

mkay, then you may not understand what Steve meant by rebalancing.

yes, playerbase who can only play cheese stuff may leave, but playerbase of players who may enjoy actual gameplay will come instead.

Having one combo like you mentioned, Sarpa, Detron, Sweeper that cheeses lvl 98678976 is bad, sure, there were 3 more weapons you could use to do that.... but that does not sound broken to you? 300+ weapons in the game and one combo just better....

Also, you forgetting rage mode that is coming?

Look, I said that because CO got nerfed the importance of zaws changed. This is what started all of this. I have not said that melee is completely ♥♥♥♥ now or that the CO nerf shouldn't have happened, yet you're acting like that's exactly what I'm saying. So what the hell are you on about?

Nerf to CO but a buff to everything else is not a nerf, it is a change of roles.