Vex Armor vs. Eclipse (Damage Increase)

[Ras-pica]

I've been noticing from my tests on simulacrum right now that Mirage's Eclipse, even though it has a higher weapon damage multiplier, isn't doing as much damage as Chroma's Vex Armor. With Eclipse giving a 562% bonus and Vex Armor giving 404% bonus from my current modding, this doesn't make sense to me. What does Vex Armor do more? Or is it Eclipse that isn't doing as much damage as the bonus suggests?

(Note, I've made sure that I'm not standing in the shadows while testing in Simulacrum, and I am indeed seeing a damage increase with Eclipse cast, so this has nothing to do with me standing in the shadow and getting damage resist instead of weapon damage increase).

[Spook]

Probably because Vex Armor is supposedly bugged and actually multiplies the damage of combined elements twice instead of once. And supposedly three times if the weapon's base damage type IS an advanced element, but I have no idea why that would happen.

[Ras-pica]

Originally posted by Spook:

Probably because Vex Armor is supposedly bugged and actually multiplies the damage of combined elements twice instead of once. And supposedly three times if the weapon's base damage type IS an advanced element, but I have no idea why that would happen.

That's quite an extreme bug. Doesn't DE want to fix this, or at the very least change the description and details to accommodate this extra multiplier? I'm kinda tired of being "required" to have a Chroma 1-shot the Eidolon Teralyst. Currently, the only alternative is a Volt with a Vectis Prime, which still takes multiple shots. I was hoping that Eclipse's higher damage multipler than Vex Armor (theoretically) might allow me to replace Chroma with Mirage.

[Fishyflakes]

You should actually replace Chroma and Mirage with a Rhino buff, since there are 3 other squad members righttt (I play Trin but ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ some of these Chromas don't know how Vex Armor works.)

[Totally Innocent Chatbot]

Originally posted by Fishyflakes:

You should actually replace Chroma and Mirage with a Rhino buff, since there are 3 other squad members righttt (I play Trin but ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ some of these Chromas don't know how Vex Armor works.)

Why waste time with that, when a Chroma who actually knows what they're doing can one-shot a Teralyst's limb before Rhino would even be able to finish casting his buff.

[Tesper]

Octavia's Amp gives a pretty good damage buff tho

[Vex]

Hi I am Vex.

[No_Quarter]

Originally posted by JK21Games:

Originally posted by Raspica Blue:

That's quite an extreme bug. Doesn't DE want to fix this, or at the very least change the description and details to accommodate this extra multiplier? I'm kinda tired of being "required" to have a Chroma 1-shot the Eidolon Teralyst. Currently, the only alternative is a Volt with a Vectis Prime, which still takes multiple shots. I was hoping that Eclipse's higher damage multipler than Vex Armor (theoretically) might allow me to replace Chroma with Mirage.

They've been talking about doing a rework for Chroma at some point down the line, so I would expect them to rope in his damage at that time, but not before that (they just straight up aren't going to let a frame have an extremely large damage multiplier for obvious reasons). Hopefully this comes with some kind of rework to his first ability so that he can alternate between elements at will, and then he can get a passive finally and just be colored however a player wants. Basically they have to do the work to sell his new abilities, while not ticking off Chroma players too much with the inevitable damage nerfs. And being honest, no matter how much you do in this regard, there will always be people who don't get why they make such balancing decisions. In this situation, DE never intended the Terralyst to get oneshot, so any such mechanics are exploits of the system.

But its just another case of something being used in the way they didn't intend. Hek, look at the way the community uses the Hunter Munitions mod and is kind of paranoid about it being nerfed. Yet, its blindingly obvious that DE designed that mod to make Crit weapons work with Hunter Command, not to be some kind of meta-defining mod. So with Vex Armor, the point has always been to give Chroma bonus armor/damage for being hit, not to make him into some kind of one-shot everything in the game frame. Until they rework him though to be more balanced all around, its his niche and we should just accept that for now.

I have my doubts they will nerf him too much, simply because Chroma is end-game content - you have to do everything this game offers to obtain Chroma. So in a way, he has to be strong.
His armor and damage could be nerfed a little bith without really triggering too much people but even with that you will be doing two-shot Eidolon

I like the idea of changing colors at demand with 1, it may not be the most intuitive thing to use but it would give Chroma more utilizing breath and tbh no newbies play Chroma so having bit complex ability shoul dnot be a big deal, yet, if ability 1 serves as a switch for 2-nd ability, why not turn his 2-nd into ability like Ivara's 1? In which case 1 could stay as is, he is a dragon after all, and his second could be tap to change, hold to cast kind of ability

[No_Quarter]

Originally posted by JK21Games:

Originally posted by No_Quarter:

I have my doubts they will nerf him too much, simply because Chroma is end-game content - you have to do everything this game offers to obtain Chroma. So in a way, he has to be strong.
His armor and damage could be nerfed a little bith without really triggering too much people but even with that you will be doing two-shot Eidolon

I like the idea of changing colors at demand with 1, it may not be the most intuitive thing to use but it would give Chroma more utilizing breath and tbh no newbies play Chroma so having bit complex ability shoul dnot be a big deal, yet, if ability 1 serves as a switch for 2-nd ability, why not turn his 2-nd into ability like Ivara's 1? In which case 1 could stay as is, he is a dragon after all, and his second could be tap to change, hold to cast kind of ability

I think they will definitely leave him as a damage tank since Vex Armor has a good payoff for taking what could be dangerous hits, they just didn't intend for him to be able to do quite as much damage as he does now at maximum potential. A rework/retooling of his 1/4 would be very beneficial to the frame overall since they are currently much less useful than his 2/3. His 4th ability especially should have more endgame aspects to it and not have as much drain (if any) on Chroma. I just don't want the fix and rework to occur seperately since I don't feel its a good thing to just nerf the damage of Chroma (or fix the bugged damage multiplier, whatever is the case here), without making him come together better.

I am not sure how could they rework his 4 - I mean idea of it is to release the Dragon and if you let it fly around it will jus tbe flat out broken. Having it as sort of turret is good balanced option tho I agree it costs a bit too much energy considering how limited it is

You could say that Chroma's 3 is his ult, and 4 is as is, it would be hard to justify making 4 any stronger, just make it more efficient for energy as we aleady have the drawback of loosing the armor when we deploy it. I mean Equinox can spawn best specter in the game with her 1, her other half and that costs way less than Effigy in terms of energy.

apart from energy costs I think Chroma's 4 is fine, he is a Dragon Warframe and it really feels good to have Effigy around.

And for Chroma's 3, I agree that he should stay high damage warframe, that sort of rage effect when he takes damage and gets pissed off to do more damage is fine in terms of gameplay, just fine tuning the numbers wouldn't hurt anyone.
And I say that even tho Chroma is one of my favorite warframes

[Ras-pica]

Originally posted by JK21Games:

Originally posted by Raspica Blue:

That's quite an extreme bug. Doesn't DE want to fix this, or at the very least change the description and details to accommodate this extra multiplier? I'm kinda tired of being "required" to have a Chroma 1-shot the Eidolon Teralyst. Currently, the only alternative is a Volt with a Vectis Prime, which still takes multiple shots. I was hoping that Eclipse's higher damage multipler than Vex Armor (theoretically) might allow me to replace Chroma with Mirage.

They've been talking about doing a rework for Chroma at some point down the line, so I would expect them to rope in his damage at that time, but not before that (they just straight up aren't going to let a frame have an extremely large damage multiplier for obvious reasons). Hopefully this comes with some kind of rework to his first ability so that he can alternate between elements at will, and then he can get a passive finally and just be colored however a player wants. Basically they have to do the work to sell his new abilities, while not ticking off Chroma players too much with the inevitable damage nerfs. And being honest, no matter how much you do in this regard, there will always be people who don't get why they make such balancing decisions. In this situation, DE never intended the Terralyst to get oneshot, so any such mechanics are exploits of the system.

But its just another case of something being used in the way they didn't intend. Hek, look at the way the community uses the Hunter Munitions mod and is kind of paranoid about it being nerfed. Yet, its blindingly obvious that DE designed that mod to make Crit weapons work with Hunter Command, not to be some kind of meta-defining mod. So with Vex Armor, the point has always been to give Chroma bonus armor/damage for being hit, not to make him into some kind of one-shot everything in the game frame. Until they rework him though to be more balanced all around, its his niche and we should just accept that for now.

The flaw that comes with needing to farm the Teralyst comes from the flawed Focus system itself. Not to mention the 50 min time limit really exacerbates this issue even further. Talk of softcaps on daily focus instead of hardcaps have been going around, like for example reducing focus per affinity after a certain threshold, or giving every rank 30 weapon/frame the ability to generate focus and giving Focus Lenses a different role.

Coming back to Chroma, it seems many of us agree that his abilities are completely out of whack. His 1 should definitely be like a mix of Equinox's 1 and Ivara's 1 to cycle through elements. His 2 appears to be fine in my eyes. His 3 will be extremely difficult to "properly" nerf/fix, but I do want to throw in an idea to remove triggering from self-damage. Compensating for the fixed extreme damage multiplier in some way could be a thread topic of its own, though. And whatever buff/rework his 4 should get, I think the concept of the effigy itself should at least be preserved in some way.

In proper order, though, the Focus Points and Eidolons need to be improved first before Chroma receives his rework full of buffs and nerfs.

[No_Quarter]

Originally posted by JK21Games:

Originally posted by Raspica Blue:

And whatever buff/rework his 4 should get, I think the concept of the effigy itself should at least be preserved in some way.

I also like the launching of a Dragon Sentry, I just don't think that it should actively hurt Chroma by taking away his armor.

well if you look at it, Dragon is kind of his armor, I mean he is wearing it...