Riven Mods - Why Would Anyone Bother?

[Blackcompany]

Just returned to the game after six months away. Managed to get through the utter tedium that is the game play of War Within (seriously, that operator mode and those Ravenous Maws...not entertaining). And now I have caught up, information wise, on what I missed, I have to ask:

Why would anyone bother even trying to get Riven mods?

First, Sorties: Utter tedium. Enemies so spongy that CC'ing the AI into irrelevance is the best tactic. Add to that, a very poor chance of a Riven drop, where other drops are Endo you wouldnt be playing Sorties if you still needed.


Second: Riven unveiling conditions. My WW Riven mod is get 30 headshots without setting off alarms. Fine. Easy enough. And one day, I MIGHT bother to do it. But I dont NEED the Riven mod badly enough to deal with it right now to begin with. Moreover...I earned the reward, so why make me jump through hoops to reveal what the reward is in the first place? That's actually...sort of insulting.

Third: Rivens are random. Might not work with a weapon you like. Might have a NEGATIVE effect, for no justifiable reason whatsoever.

Fourth: Re-rolling them using Kuva requires farming Kuva. Which means more Operator-mode tedium. Less said about Operator game play the better.

so I have to ask: Why would anyone bother with Riven mods? Seriously.

[No u]

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1132922739

Got this for the low-low price of 0p (I found and rolled it myself), got offers ranging 300-700. The damage is ♥♥♥♥ but it's capable of healing even Inaros 0-100% in a second or so.

[Ginkawa]

Just throwing this out here.

on my Inaros, I use a Karyst, and I have a riven for it.

currently the riven is: (14 points)
+63.9% range
+30.3% Attack Speed
+82.5% Channeling Damage

if I maxed it out, it would be: (18 points)
+115% range
+54.5% attack speed
+148.6% Channeling Damage.

I got it with I think 1 roll on it, and now its at 8. still trying periodically to see if I can get better.

but right now, it fits pretty well, with both it and Fury(1 point short of maxed) on it its got 1.16 attack speed.


I paid 50p for it.

I'm happy with it.

[Renkuya]

Originally posted by Punished_Penguini:

Originally posted by Renkuya:

Can I see what your Riven actually is?

sure, I'll just tell you
+165% dmg
+9.2combo duration
+90.6%crit dmg

Then, you paid 400 plat for 20k more DPS. Thank you by the way for giving me some raw numbers to through around in here.

So, the best Disposition you can get on a weapon and 400 plat can take you 20k over one of the "meta" weapons WITHOUT a Riven. So, now we can get down to my point from earlier. Where do you use this that it makes a big impact? There currently exists no content that's hard enough to justify what you paid. You would've used less forma and less plat just sticking with a Galatine Prime or Jat Kusar. Now, this doesn't take into account using something that is capable of even more DPS. Without using Maiming strike (the case could be made you could use maiming strike on your Gram to catch it up with other MS builds) you can clear 40k DPS over your Riven built Gram for just the cost of the same Forma.

There's room for "what if you don't want to play with just one weapon though?". I'll tackle that right now, if you're spending plat to make a weapon super charged you're clearly interested in min/maxing. Min/maxing doesn't stop with your weapons, it's important to consider things like "how long can I stay in this T4 survival" or whatever you're doing. Damage falloff is the main reason you're using Rivens when talking about maximizing damage and weapons that are currently "meta" are more worth investing in than Riven built weapons that are virtually unused. If you're just buying Rivens because, "I don't want to get bored with the same 3 or so weapons that are currently meta" then you're not really the people OP wants to hear from. It's true that you could get ANY Riven and make that weapon "viable" but it's not really why people buy Rivens for insane prices. They're doing it to take that ~130k Fragor and pushing it into an even higher number in the hopes that they can stay in endurance missions longer, decrease that high wave difficulty and make plat easier. The problem is, that only really work for meta weapons and those Rivens are INSANELY high priced. It also only slightly increases your staying power. 40k DPS might sound like a lot but at enemy levels of 200-300 it starts looking like a lot less.

Let me just ask, why don't you have a Riven for your Galatine Prime? Would the price have anything to do with that?

[post apocalypse otter boi]

Originally posted by Renkuya:

Originally posted by Punished_Penguini:

sure, I'll just tell you
+165% dmg
+9.2combo duration
+90.6%crit dmg

Then, you paid 400 plat for 20k more DPS. Thank you by the way for giving me some raw numbers to through around in here.

So, the best Disposition you can get on a weapon and 400 plat can take you 20k over one of the "meta" weapons WITHOUT a Riven. So, now we can get down to my point from earlier. Where do you use this that it makes a big impact? There currently exists no content that's hard enough to justify what you paid. You would've used less forma and less plat just sticking with a Galatine Prime or Jat Kusar. Now, this doesn't take into account using something that is capable of even more DPS. Without using Maiming strike (the case could be made you could use maiming strike on your Gram to catch it up with other MS builds) you can clear 40k DPS over your Riven built Gram for just the cost of the same Forma.

There's room for "what if you don't want to play with just one weapon though?". I'll tackle that right now, if you're spending plat to make a weapon super charged you're clearly interested in min/maxing. Min/maxing doesn't stop with your weapons, it's important to consider things like "how long can I stay in this T4 survival" or whatever you're doing. Damage falloff is the main reason you're using Rivens when talking about maximizing damage and weapons that are currently "meta" are more worth investing in than Riven built weapons that are virtually unused. If you're just buying Rivens because, "I don't want to get bored with the same 3 or so weapons that are currently meta" then you're not really the people OP wants to hear from. It's true that you could get ANY Riven and make that weapon "viable" but it's not really why people buy Rivens for insane prices. They're doing it to take that ~130k Fragor and pushing it into an even higher number in the hopes that they can stay in endurance missions longer, decrease that high wave difficulty and make plat easier. The problem is, that only really work for meta weapons and those Rivens are INSANELY high priced. It also only slightly increases your staying power. 40k DPS might sound like a lot but at enemy levels of 200-300 it starts looking like a lot less.

Let me just ask, why don't you have a Riven for your Galatine Prime? Would the price have anything to do with that?

IDK about others but I don't buy a riven for my galatine prime because it is already sortie worthy and I don;t give a ♥♥♥♥ about other high level end game content. I do give a ♥♥♥♥ about sroties because they have some nice rewards. There is no nice reward for doing a surivial up till level 100 or greater enemies.

[Alizarin]

https://youtu.be/HNdbKLIw5rs

[Renkuya]

Originally posted by Punished_Penguini:

IDK about others but I don't buy a riven for my galatine prime because it is already sortie worthy and I don;t give a ♥♥♥♥ about other high level end game content. I do give a ♥♥♥♥ about sroties because they have some nice rewards. There is no nice reward for doing a surivial up till level 100 or greater enemies.

T4 Fissure Survival is where you'd do survival missions to any extreme length. Sorties don't require much to complete though? practically any Prime weapon released recently is capable of doing sorties without rivens and practically any Damage frame can do the same.

Also, my bad I was reading what I wrote and I said 400 plat instead of 200-300. I could've sworn I read 400 plat but I was more interested in comparing your build and I guess I overlooked it.

[post apocalypse otter boi]

Originally posted by Renkuya:

Originally posted by Punished_Penguini:

IDK about others but I don't buy a riven for my galatine prime because it is already sortie worthy and I don;t give a ♥♥♥♥ about other high level end game content. I do give a ♥♥♥♥ about sroties because they have some nice rewards. There is no nice reward for doing a surivial up till level 100 or greater enemies.

T4 Fissure Survival is where you'd do survival missions to any extreme length. Sorties don't require much to complete though? practically any Prime weapon released recently is capable of doing sorties without rivens and practically any Damage frame can do the same.

Also, my bad I was reading what I wrote and I said 400 plat instead of 200-300. I could've sworn I read 400 plat but I was more interested in comparing your build and I guess I overlooked it.

perhaps but you miss the point completely. I want to use my gram. I want to bring it to sorties. it is my choice to buy a riven so I can bring a weapon I want to use to missions where it is outclassed. I didn't buy my gram riven to make the best melee weapon ever, I bought to have a unuseable weapon become usable for sorties.

[Renkuya]

Originally posted by Punished_Penguini:

Originally posted by Renkuya:

T4 Fissure Survival is where you'd do survival missions to any extreme length. Sorties don't require much to complete though? practically any Prime weapon released recently is capable of doing sorties without rivens and practically any Damage frame can do the same.

Also, my bad I was reading what I wrote and I said 400 plat instead of 200-300. I could've sworn I read 400 plat but I was more interested in comparing your build and I guess I overlooked it.

perhaps but you miss the point completely. I want to use my gram. I want to bring it to sorties. it is my choice to buy a riven so I can bring a weapon I want to use to missions where it is outclassed. I didn't buy my gram riven to make the best melee weapon ever, I bought to have a unuseable weapon become usable for sorties.

I'm not missing your point, I'm just saying the price was high for no other reason than the rarity of the mod. While you could buy a riven for ANY reason and the initial point was to let you do exactly what you did with the Gram it's not really the problem I'm talking about. My problem is with the fact that if you like the Gram and want to use it more often Rivens are your best shot and you're insanely unlikely to get it through grinding means. You'll end up needing to spend a fairly decent amount of plat and the gain damage wise isn't worth it from a lose/profit viewpoint. That Riven isn't going to help you farm for items to sell and make that money back, at least not in any reasonable way. Sorties are also not hard enough that you'd NEED Rivens. I think it's fair to say there currently exists NO content that would require them.

So, if there exists a problem with balance that certain weapons are just flat trash what do we do? Rebalance? Add in Augment mods? How about instead we just throw in a new mod system that will encourage the mass use of Platinum (increasing plat sales) AND limit the slots for those weapons because, "why not?". I refuse to believe that the technical impacts on their database is so extreme that they simply had to make you pay to "store" your Rivens. The only reason this would be the case is because they implemented a lazy system. I don't mind supporting DE but Rivens feel like a pure "money money money" addition and things like abandoning Trials and seemingly PvP points to the fact their main motivation is money, not good game design. This has been my problem from the start yet people like Nitro tried to make it about me being an idiot and other insults. The high price (which, funny story I looked at trade chat for "literally 2 minutes" and saw at least 5 people selling Rivens over 1k plat) would be lowered if Riven mods were more easily farmed. Even limiting them to a daily system like Trials and PvP challenges would still be better than 1 chance at a 25% drop which is than split and weighted between 4 categories. You'd pretty much only see "godlike" Rivens going for 700+ instead of just decent ones for popular weapons but no, you get this system because it does (you can deny it all you want) encourage the usage and thus purchasing of plat.

[post apocalypse otter boi]

Originally posted by Renkuya:

Originally posted by Punished_Penguini:

perhaps but you miss the point completely. I want to use my gram. I want to bring it to sorties. it is my choice to buy a riven so I can bring a weapon I want to use to missions where it is outclassed. I didn't buy my gram riven to make the best melee weapon ever, I bought to have a unuseable weapon become usable for sorties.

I'm not missing your point, I'm just saying the price was high for no other reason than the rarity of the mod. While you could buy a riven for ANY reason and the initial point was to let you do exactly what you did with the Gram it's not really the problem I'm talking about. My problem is with the fact that if you like the Gram and want to use it more often Rivens are your best shot and you're insanely unlikely to get it through grinding means. You'll end up needing to spend a fairly decent amount of plat and the gain damage wise isn't worth it from a lose/profit viewpoint. That Riven isn't going to help you farm for items to sell and make that money back, at least not in any reasonable way. Sorties are also not hard enough that you'd NEED Rivens. I think it's fair to say there currently exists NO content that would require them.

So, if there exists a problem with balance that certain weapons are just flat trash what do we do? Rebalance? Add in Augment mods? How about instead we just throw in a new mod system that will encourage the mass use of Platinum (increasing plat sales) AND limit the slots for those weapons because, "why not?". I refuse to believe that the technical impacts on their database is so extreme that they simply had to make you pay to "store" your Rivens. The only reason this would be the case is because they implemented a lazy system. I don't mind supporting DE but Rivens feel like a pure "money money money" addition and things like abandoning Trials and seemingly PvP points to the fact their main motivation is money, not good game design. This has been my problem from the start yet people like Nitro tried to make it about me being an idiot and other insults. The high price (which, funny story I looked at trade chat for "literally 2 minutes" and saw at least 5 people selling Rivens over 1k plat) would be lowered if Riven mods were more easily farmed. Even limiting them to a daily system like Trials and PvP challenges would still be better than 1 chance at a 25% drop which is than split and weighted between 4 categories. You'd pretty much only see "godlike" Rivens going for 700+ instead of just decent ones for popular weapons but no, you get this system because it does (you can deny it all you want) encourage the usage and thus purchasing of plat.

The same thing goes for prime weapons Then. They too serve no purpose but to incourage the purchase of Plat and that all weapons should already be as good as their prime counter parts.

[Renkuya]

Originally posted by Punished_Penguini:

The same thing goes for prime weapons Then. They too serve no purpose but to incourage the purchase of Plat and that all weapons should already be as good as their prime counter parts.

The exception here is that Prime weapons can be farmed. You can bring up vaulted Prime stuff but that's going to be a totally whole new bag. I'm against vaulting and it too stems from DE being able to milk it's playerbase for money (like you said, encourages plat purchases) and what you get typically isn't worth it. The reasons behind vaulting stuff is pretty much the same as well, some flimsy excuse about "ah bloated loot tables" when they weight the tables anyway and neglect several avenues of potential relic reward pools. One again, they could add vaulted relics to the Conclave standing window like all those mods are cosmetics are. So yeah, Prime parts aren't a terribly great thing to bring up, they're in the same boat.