Raw vs. Status/Crit builds?

[Abomination713]

So I just recently got back into the game and have been researching end game content to try and get back into the loop, but everywhere I go, everyone seems to say red crits are the way to go or really high status chance. Raw damage always seems to get left behind and was just wondering if I should even bother with raw damage weapons besides leveling them for mastery. I main the Boltor Prime at the moment, but it has terrible crit and very meh status chance. I've always heard it was a great end game weapon, but now I have my doubts. I also use the Brakk and Orothos Prime and they don't have really good crit/status chances either. Am I just putting too much thought into this? Would I be able to do high end content just fine or is it just the 1-2 hour survival missions that only matter with crit/status builds? Which to me just sounds like a♥♥♥♥♥♥measuring contest.

[Totally Innocent Chatbot]

Depends on how you define "high end content". Nearly any well-modded weapon will more than likely carry you through the starchart; the differences between weapons become most noticeable in high-level content like sorties and endless runs. Boltor Prime is an alright weapon, but at this point it's pretty much outclassed by other assault rifle-type weapons like Soma Prime or Tenora.

Raw damage weapons do tend to fall by the wayside at higher levels, since high crit or status builds are simply superior to pure damage thanks to the game's current mechanics, with the possible exception of outrageously high-damage weapons like the Tigris series (although those can also be built for status instead). There's mainly just a tendency for many Warframers to always prefer whatever weapons and builds are the absolute cheesiest and most powerful out of all possible options, even though plenty of other weapons - while objectively they may be a bit inferior - will still do the job just fine.

[St_Minorto]

Originally posted by Totally Innocent Chatbot:

Depends on how you define "high end content". Nearly any well-modded weapon will more than likely carry you through the starchart; the differences between weapons become most noticeable in high-level content like sorties and endless runs. Boltor Prime is an alright weapon, but at this point it's pretty much outclassed by other assault rifle-type weapons like Soma Prime or Tenora.

Raw damage weapons do tend to fall by the wayside at higher levels, since high crit or status builds are simply superior to pure damage thanks to the game's current mechanics, with the possible exception of outrageously high-damage weapons like the Tigris series (although those can also be built for status instead). There's mainly just a tendency for many Warframers to always prefer whatever weapons and builds are the absolute cheesiest and most powerful out of all possible options, even though plenty of other weapons - while objectively they may be a bit inferior - will still do the job just fine.

yeah true and this sad (about raw and chisi pisi players)

i would say (i too returned after some 2.0 mechanics) try all crazy stuf, go wild. just have some "sortie worthy" builds ready. try some weapons. etc %)

[robruckus65]

With how armor and health scales raw damage starts to drop off pretty quickly. Crits allow your weapon achieve some pretty crazy damage multipliers red crits pretty much double it and you can red crit a red crit so it gets pretty insane. Status lets you strip aromr, cut their health in half, cc, and against really high leveled armored targets status can and usually does outclass crit. If you want raw damage to perform decently you need to really be outputting a really high amount of damage using damage types your enemy is weak against. I like to run radiation against grineer usually radiation or gas against corpus and then gas or corrosive agaisnt infested the bane mods can be used decently for raw damage builds rivens also help especially if you get a +damage + multishot riven. This only really starts to matter agaisnt level 80+ enemies like sorties, long endless missions, certain events.

[Abomination713]

Thanks for your input guys. I just got access to sorties, but still have to get mods, levels, weapons, and focus before I even feel comfortable trying it. Sorties seem important so I want to reach that level eventually.

Guess I'll do some research and figure out what the best status/crit weapons are and figure out if I want all my weapons to be status or crit or a mixture. Maybe make my guns status and my melee crit so if I feel like cheesing the game with the completely broken Naramon focus, I can.

[💫𝓗yp𝟹rspac𝟹💫]

After reading all comments... long story short: status chance is the endgame in WF. Why? Because critical chance/damage is just more, but still worth, raw damage--It doesn't scale. Status procs are that "magic" that will help you kill the enemy for real. Some procs scale with the enemy while others really don't, and that's where raw damage and critical damage and all other multipliers fade in effectiveness: They don't scale with the enemy and you end doing no damage nor having any way to control//cc the enemy with weapons.

While you spend too much in everything to reach up the enemy in high levels and hard situations by means of damage, procs help you do the opposite: bring down the enemy to [something comparable to] your level. Slash, viral, and radiation are the most universal way to go; but still worth to have weapons and builds that can produce other procs due to the wide variety of situations the game offers to counter, and thats where the game becomes fun and professional.

P.S.: For those who wonder about the procs I mentioned: Slash puts a good amount of your total damage straight into the enemy's health, bypassing armor and shield and resistances... pretty much bypass everything, hitting the enemy where is squeeshy; and hits the enemy more than once per proc and also stacks (is like stacking troops of Samurai Jack per proc, and enjoy the bleed). Viral temporarily halves enemy's max health and also halves the amount of remaining health after proc damage applied (eg, his max is 2000 and has 1000 remaining and the proc hits with 500, after proc will have max 1000 and 250 remaining), which can't be stacked but can remain refreshed with further proc (brings down the enemy to a lower level so you have a chance to kill the enemy someday instead of never, and in case of recovery, the life pool wil be smaller). Radiation distracts the enemy by making them kill each other for few seconds (cmon, what a better way to increase your raw damage than have them use their OP weapons against each other). Radiation also nullifies healers by making them enemies of their faction and so passing them damage rather than absorbing it, which also nullifies the extra resistances given by the healer to himself and his partners in crime.

Corrosive proc is only to strip 25% of remainig armor, so it will never end to strip unless use CP (which removes flat amount of armor) and is no good against enemies without armor. Ice, fire, and electricity are for cc only (not bad but you still need to add real damage). Magnetic is the shield counterpart of corrosive (which requires EMP aura instead of CP, and obviously work only on shields). Gas bypass shields but not armor and doesn't scale with the enemy (still useful in a creative way but will run short at high levels). Toxic is the same story as gas, since gas is actually a form of direct toxic damage that spreads to nearby enemies. Blast is only good if your intention is to move away enemies and cc for few seconds so you can just run away (it puts good damage but is still raw damage).

Just bring them down of their godlike level with viral, make them enemies and dispell healer buffs (if any) with radiation, and stab them repeatedly straight in their tender and squeeshy heart with an army of Samurai Jack's (slash). Speaking about pure dark evil, eh.

[primobrainlet]

Raw damage wont scale for long, and crit damage will take you far, but will begin to drop off eventually, I reccomend viral status builds, but ive seen some damn good crit/status hybrid builds on things like the soma prime

[robruckus65]

Originally posted by lonemushroom:

Raw damage wont scale for long, and crit damage will take you far, but will begin to drop off eventually, I reccomend viral status builds, but ive seen some damn good crit/status hybrid builds on things like the soma prime

crit/status hybrid is pretty amazing not many weapons can do it well though... but being able to strip armor and do heavy crits allows you to melt high level enemies rather quickly. The silva and aegis prime is a good example it can reach increibdly high crit and status chance with weeping wounds and blood rush equipped add in organ shatter and corrosive damage and even level 120+ corrupted bombards die in a few hits.

[primobrainlet]

Originally posted by robruckus65:

Originally posted by lonemushroom:

Raw damage wont scale for long, and crit damage will take you far, but will begin to drop off eventually, I reccomend viral status builds, but ive seen some damn good crit/status hybrid builds on things like the soma prime

crit/status hybrid is pretty amazing not many weapons can do it well though... but being able to strip armor and do heavy crits allows you to melt high level enemies rather quickly. The silva and aegis prime is a good example it can reach increibdly high crit and status chance with weeping wounds and blood rush equipped add in organ shatter and corrosive damage and even level 120+ corrupted bombards die in a few hits.

yeah, hybrids tend to be best, but holy hell do they eat alot of forma

[Wintermute]

Basic idea is, it's status>crit>raw. Advanced exploration of said idea reveals it to be ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on oh so many levels.

First, there's no more reason to ever kill anything above level 120 (and even that is a stretch). As such, it will take actual effort to see damage-focused weaponry falling off.

Second, only reason status is considered superior is because of corrosive armor strip, which is easily replased by CP stacking - and suddenly crit and raw start to outperform it again.

Third, there are likes of Tigris Prime - some weapons deal so much raw damage that entire idea of crit or status superiority becomes laughable.

Bottomline - there's no meta. Pick something you like and use it. Just make sure it's not something godawful, like machete.

[robruckus65]

Originally posted by Wintermute:

Basic idea is, it's status>crit>raw. Advanced exploration of said idea reveals it to be ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on oh so many levels.

First, there's no more reason to ever kill anything above level 120 (and even that is a stretch). As such, it will take actual effort to see damage-focused weaponry falling off.

Second, only reason status is considered superior is because of corrosive armor strip, which is easily replased by CP stacking - and suddenly crit and raw start to outperform it again.

Third, there are likes of Tigris Prime - some weapons deal so much raw damage that entire idea of crit or status superiority becomes laughable.

Bottomline - there's no meta. Pick something you like and use it. Just make sure it's not something godawful, like machete.

Tigris prime isnt as powerful as it is becuase of its high base damage. IT is as powerful as it is becasue it ahs decent crit chance and can hit 100% status with its high base damage. So if you can pair viral procs, amd crit slash procs from an insanely high slash damage and kill almost anythign in the game in 1-2 hits... but I mostly agree with you its more fun using weapons with cool abilities or different mechanics like the drakgoon is hilarious,,,

[AnonumusSoldier]

Originally posted by Wintermute:

Basic idea is, it's status>crit>raw.
First, there's no more reason to ever kill anything above level 120 (and even that is a stretch). As such, it will take actual effort to see damage-focused weaponry falling off.

Second, only reason status is considered superior is because of corrosive armor strip, which is easily replased by CP stacking - and suddenly crit and raw start to outperform it again.



Bottomline - there's no meta. Pick something you like and use it. Just make sure it's not something godawful, like machete.

Eh, while I agree on point 1, point 2 is dead wrong. You will easily see level 120+ in sorties, and not every sortie is a CC focused mission. Additionally, ALOT of the community likes to run endless missions for very long periods of time. It is very easy to start seeing level 120+ on Hiercon, any endless fissure mission, and Mot.
Also, I like my machetes, take that back

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

Originally posted by hyp3rspac3:

Corrosive proc is only to strip 25% of remainig armor, so it will never end to strip unless use CP (which removes flat amount of armor)

Actually it can completely remove armor without the use of Corrosive Projection due to the fact that game rounds up the amount. I know for sure as I did it sever times, especially on Sortie Vay Hek, against whom I take my Tigris P without CP. Depending on weapon and how many things it can proc, the time needed to completely strip all armor varies.

If you use a Corrosive + Blast Lesion, it will take much longer than using Prisma Obex for example, due to the number of hits. For the sake of the discussion, let's say they both have the exact same attack speed and 100% status. Due to the fact that for Prisma Obex hit 4 times in the same time Lesion hits once, even tho both would have 100% status chanec, P Obex will strip the armor much faster due to it being able to proc more status effects faster.

A Corrosive + Heat Silva & Aegis Prime will strip armor faster than Lesion as well, because beside the Corrosive and Radiation, each of Lesion's attacks also have a chance to proc Impact, Puncture or Slash, while Silva & Aegis can only proc Corrosive or Heat, but, due to how proc chance works, S&A P will mostly proc Corrosive, while Lesion will mostly proc Slash.

Same things go for primaries and secondaries. Tigris P will strip armor faster than Ignis W due to it being able to both proc more status effects at once and also faster.

[Shameless Instigator]

I always prefer raw damage weapons however i should add i have a crit and status built prisma grakata, Its damage numbers as far as raw damage is concerned is almost laughable but that doesnt stop it from killing a 145 corrupted bombard in 70 too 80 shots, as far as which one is the way too go it realllly depends on the weapon, but status is the easier option to redcrits unless its a specific weapon that can reach redcrits, In the end i find status being the more viable in regaurds too the amount of status weapons there are

[Zefar]

For me I basically do this.

Does the weapon have high crit? Then go Crit build because that's what it will do best at.

High status already? Boost it as much as possible.
Low status? Raw Elemental damage.

That's basically it.

[DevoidChaos]

Originally posted by Zefar:

For me I basically do this.

Does the weapon have high crit? Then go Crit build because that's what it will do best at.

High status already? Boost it as much as possible.
Low status? Raw Elemental damage.

That's basically it.

Best answer right here^