An honest review from a non fanboy

[Lock]

My favorite game, or RPG, of all time is Baldur's Gate 2. Nothing has ever come close to surpassing its excellence in storytelling, immersion, sound and overall design. I've played every CRPG that came out since, and although many people might disagree with this, the only games that ever came close for me were The Witcher 2 and (yes) Skyrim. I kind of liked Dragon Age: Origins, but it just didn't grip me. I even liked Dragon Age 2, but again, it didn't grip me enough. I liked Fallout 3, and Fallout: New Vegas, but after playing Oblivion, they just felt like more of the same. Mass Effect 1,2 and even 3 were great, but they were not RPG's in the same way The Walking Dead is not an RPG. I've played Diablo 2 & 3, and they were fun hack&slash games, but nothing more. I've played Avernum and Abadon, but even though they came out a decade later, they felt older than the Baldur's Gate series and so I couldn't enjoy them as much. I've played many more game, but nothing ever came close.

Now as a Belgian myself (sorry about last night US people), I remember being all hyped up when Larian released Divine Divinty more than a decade ago. I bought it, played it, and... I didn't like it. It lacked all the good qualities the Baldur's Gate series had. An epic story with personal stakes, excellent companions with their own personal stories, and quests which would take you all over the world and would take weeks to complete. Divine Divinty was "meh". It tried, it did it's best, but it never came close to the brilliance that Baldur's Gate (or even Fallout) was. I remember Larian promoting it as if they combined Diablo 2 with Infinity Engine games. This was simply not true. It wasn't a bad game, not at all, it just wasn't great. The misplaced "humor" and unepicness caused me to not finish the game and simply to forget about it after 20 hours or so.

Almost a decade later, Larian released Divinity 2. It had exactly the same problems as Divine Divinity, and this time I didn't like it at all. The story made no sense, there were literally no interesting characters and moving from a topdown RPG to a 3rd person action adventure was completely the wrong way to go. Next came Dragon Commander, not an RPG, but again, they promoted it as a hybrid between an RPG and an RTS. I didn't like it at all, it had the exact same problems.

I have no clue as to why, but when Larian announced Divinity: Original Sin, I got real excited. A promise to go back to the days of the old infinity games. An epic story! Memorable companions! Top down perspective! Turn based combat! New graphics! This was almost to good to be true. I'm not for the whole Kickstarter, Steam Early Access, idea. In my opinion it doesn't work and I still have to see the first game that gets released through these mediums which is actually good. Against my better knowledge I decided to buy it anyway. This couldn't go wrong right? They promised all the right things...

And here we are, and after 15 hours in, I can safely say that Larian did it again. Once again they made a mediocre RPG which promises to capture the same feeling the old infinity games did, but fails in the execution. It's quite easy to pinpoint where this went wrong: the writing. Again; a dull story which nobody will remember in a few weeks. Bland characters you don't really care about. And a journey that will take you through 4 kind of the same maps with not that much to do. Where is our epic villain? Who doesn't remember Jon Irenicus? What about Minsc and Boo? Did Cyseal have a serial killer who escapes you but turns up 30 hours later in a different city? Divinity Original Sin doesn't have any of that. It's a pretty nice dungeon crawler with a sort of decent combat system and filled with forgettable characters and quests. I'm 100% positive that if they hired the right writers, this could have been a game of epic proportions. But once again they failed to attract the right talent and what we are left with is a game filled with "funny" dialogue where your actions have no consequences and your companions are the stereotypical "imma gud fiter" or "Im a very intelligent wizard". After all this negativity it might sound like I hate Original Sin, I don't. It's a good RPG, and I will finish it in the following weeks, but it is by no means the revelation it was supposed, or could, have been.

If you want a true successor to the old CRPGS, I suggest you watch Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity, that looks like the game (I for one) have been waiting for all these years. But still, congrats on a nice game Larian, I hope it sells well and that it brings enough money to the table for you to hire a decent writing team for your next game.

7/10

[TicklefistCP]

I missed the boat on cRPGs in their heyday and going back and trying them 10-15 years later hasn't been very fun. I'd probably enjoy playing pen and paper versions of BG2 and Torment more than I've enjoyed the video games.

To that end I find Divinity: Original Sin to be the better game in 2014.

[iemander]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Lockmort:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από iemander:

*sigh*

It is absolutely just your opinion. Xenogears, Wizardry 8 and Fallout are also considered the greatest RPG ever by many gaming sites and reviewers. And that's just the beginning of the list, Suikoden 2, Final Fantasy VII, Diablo 2, the list goes on and on.

And your criticism for this game holds just as much merit as someone who comes in screaming BG SUCKS. I also don't think you really understand what I meant.

It does in fact not. Because I never said, or will ever say, that this game sucked. If you read my review you would have seen that I said it was a good game, a mediocre rpg, and I encourage everyone to buy it, but to not listen to the false advertising of being a successor to the old infinity games or an open world non linear rpg. Even though Xenogears, Wizardry 8, Suikoden 2, Final Fantasy VII are rpgs, they are not topdown western RPGs, what's so hard to get about that? Fallout is. Icewind Dale is. Ultima VII is (which they mentioned a ton of times in their dev videos, as well as BG) Hell even Jagged Alliance is. When they promoted Original Sin, they said it was going to be like those games. It is not. That's why I'm not happy about it, but it doesn't suck and it's not a bad game. So when people come in here screaming that "BG SUCKS", I don't think that's a compelling argument.

No that's not true, they never advertised this game as anything like the Infinity engine games. You can look it up yourself on the original kickstarter:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/larianstudios/divinity-original-sin

It is also very apparent from the very beginning of the game that the game is nothing like BG, so why you think it is, I don't know.

Also, the reason the game got so much interest is because Divine Divinity is such a cult classic and people have been waiting for a turn based RPG in a long while. With the resurgence of turn based gameplay the timing seems right.

But again, what this has anything to do with BG I don't know.

[Lock]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από iemander:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Lockmort:

It does in fact not. Because I never said, or will ever say, that this game sucked. If you read my review you would have seen that I said it was a good game, a mediocre rpg, and I encourage everyone to buy it, but to not listen to the false advertising of being a successor to the old infinity games or an open world non linear rpg. Even though Xenogears, Wizardry 8, Suikoden 2, Final Fantasy VII are rpgs, they are not topdown western RPGs, what's so hard to get about that? Fallout is. Icewind Dale is. Ultima VII is (which they mentioned a ton of times in their dev videos, as well as BG) Hell even Jagged Alliance is. When they promoted Original Sin, they said it was going to be like those games. It is not. That's why I'm not happy about it, but it doesn't suck and it's not a bad game. So when people come in here screaming that "BG SUCKS", I don't think that's a compelling argument.

No that's not true, they never advertised this game as anything like the Infinity engine games. You can look it up yourself on the original kickstarter:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/larianstudios/divinity-original-sin

It is also very apparent from the very beginning of the game that the game is nothing like BG, so why you think it is, I don't know.

Also, the reason the game got so much interest is because Divine Divinity is such a cult classic and people have been waiting for a turn based RPG in a long while. With the resurgence of turn based gameplay the timing seems right.

But again, what this has anything to do with BG I don't know.

But Divine Divinity wasn't even turn based. It's very simular to this one though, I give you that. They did say they wanted to recapture the feeling of Ultima VII and the old infinity games, thats why I bought it. they said this in a couple of Dev videos on youtube. Again: not saying it's a bad game, because it's rather good, but it's not a throwback to oldschool cRPGS, it's a new take on Divine Divinty, which is fine if they advertised it like that.

[iemander]

Also, funny how you include Jagged Alliance but not Wizardry 8 considering they're immensely similar in style and depth. No surprise as both came from Sirtech.

They have always advertised this game as a sequel to DD, just read the description on the game's store page. And how can you even speak Ultima VII and the infinity engine games in the same sentence as if they're even vaguely similar. They're about as similar to each other as Final Fantasy VII is to either of them.

[feliscon]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Lockmort:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από iemander:

No that's not true, they never advertised this game as anything like the Infinity engine games. You can look it up yourself on the original kickstarter:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/larianstudios/divinity-original-sin

It is also very apparent from the very beginning of the game that the game is nothing like BG, so why you think it is, I don't know.

Also, the reason the game got so much interest is because Divine Divinity is such a cult classic and people have been waiting for a turn based RPG in a long while. With the resurgence of turn based gameplay the timing seems right.

But again, what this has anything to do with BG I don't know.

But Divine Divinity wasn't even turn based. It's very simular to this one though, I give you that. They did say they wanted to recapture the feeling of Ultima VII and the old infinity games, thats why I bought it. they said this in a couple of Dev videos on youtube. Again: not saying it's a bad game, because it's rather good, but it's not a throwback to oldschool cRPGS, it's a new take on Divine Divinty, which is fine if they advertised it like that.

I think you must have seen someone else speculating and thought it was the devs talking... They didn't say it was like the Infinity Engine games at all.

[Lock]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από iemander:

Also, funny how you include Jagged Alliance but not Wizardry 8 considering they're immensely similar in style and depth. No surprise as both came from Sirtech.

They have always advertised this game as a sequel to DD, just read the description on the game's store page. And how can you even speak Ultima VII and the infinity engine games in the same sentence as if they're even vaguely similar. They're about as similar to each other as Final Fantasy VII is to either of them.

Again: The infinity games and Ultima VII are topdown western RPGS, so is this one. Why is that so difficult to understand? Wizardry 8 was a great game, but it wasnt a topdown RPG. Final Fantasy VII is something completely different, thats a JRPG. Its even in a different genre. Origal Sin shares the same party based topdown gameplay as BG and its also a fantasy setting with a save the world plot. Why are they so different? It's easy to compare the two.

[NOSTRIL ZODD]

Wizardry 8 was a great game, but it wasnt a topdown RPG.

What difference does it make? The only game elemnts you judge in your review are story and characters. While country of origin may influence those elements camera perspective and controls are completely irrelevant.

They did say they wanted to recapture the feeling of Ultima VII and the old infinity games,

They said that the game inspired by some of the older games (like ultima 6-7 and IE games), and it definitely is. They never advertised it as a sequel (spiritual or proper) to any of those games and it is inappropriate to judge this game as such.

but it's not a throwback to oldschool cRPGS, it's a new take on Divine Divinty, which is fine if they advertised it like that.

But it is. Its just a throwback to more oldchool cRPGS than Baldur's Gate series, mostly to Ultima 6-7.

[Lock]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από MALGIL:

Wizardry 8 was a great game, but it wasnt a topdown RPG.

What difference does it make? The only game elemnts you judge in your review are story and characters. While country of origin may influence those elements camera perspective and controls are completely irrelevant.

They did say they wanted to recapture the feeling of Ultima VII and the old infinity games,

They said that the game inspired by some of the older games (like ultima 6-7 and IE games), and it definitely is. They never advertised it as a sequel (spiritual or proper) to any of those games and it is inappropriate to judge this game as such.

but it's not a throwback to oldschool cRPGS, it's a new take on Divine Divinty, which is fine if they advertised it like that.

But it is. Its just a throwback to more oldchool cRPGS than Baldur's Gate series, mostly to Ultima 6-7.

Fair enough.

[iemander]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Lockmort:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από iemander:

Also, funny how you include Jagged Alliance but not Wizardry 8 considering they're immensely similar in style and depth. No surprise as both came from Sirtech.

They have always advertised this game as a sequel to DD, just read the description on the game's store page. And how can you even speak Ultima VII and the infinity engine games in the same sentence as if they're even vaguely similar. They're about as similar to each other as Final Fantasy VII is to either of them.

Again: The infinity games and Ultima VII are topdown western RPGS, so is this one. Why is that so difficult to understand? Wizardry 8 was a great game, but it wasnt a topdown RPG. Final Fantasy VII is something completely different, thats a JRPG. Its even in a different genre. Origal Sin shares the same party based topdown gameplay as BG and its also a fantasy setting with a save the world plot. Why are they so different? It's easy to compare the two.

You can't even compare Ultima VII and BG with each other, they're about as dissimilar from each other as they are from Final Fantasy VII. Original Sin has completely different intentions as BG for the player, it is never meant to be a spiritual sequel to the IE games.

[iemander]

And you can absolutely compare Baldur's Gate with Divinity: Original Sin, but if you're real about doing it honestly and not as a fanboy. You should compare both games' merits, not just Baldur's Gate's.

I don't think so many people would complain about your thread if the heading said: "A review from a Baldur's Gate fanboy". Then at least you're admitting your bias and people know what to expect. Now you're just argueing your ass off for something you can't really deny. And not everyone is such a big Baldur's Gate fanboy, there are many other examples out there of amazing RPGs.

[iemander]

Here's what I posted about this in another thread:
I think there's a lot of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ going around on this forum. Just read a thread of someone who think Baldur's Gate is the one big example that all RPGs need to strive for.

Screw that,

1. I don't want my Risen turned into "Just another Baldur's Gate clone"
2. I don't want my Xenoblade Chronicles/Xenogears turned into "Just another Baldur's Gate clone"
3. I don't want my X3: Reunion turned into "Just another Baldur's Gate clone"
4. I don't want my Fallout turned into "Just another Baldur's Gate clone"
5. I don't want my Skyrim turned into "Just another Baldur's Gate clone"
6. I don't want my Tales of Vesperia turned into "Just another Baldur's Gate clone"
7. I don't want my Divinity: Original Sin turned into "Just another Baldur's Gate clone"

Baldur's Gate was great, but come on let's move on and make more unique experiences instead of moaning about the same game time and again.

[Lock]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από iemander:

And you can absolutely compare Baldur's Gate with Divinity: Original Sin, but if you're real about doing it honestly and not as a fanboy. You should compare both games' merits, not just Baldur's Gate's.

I don't think so many people would complain about your thread if the heading said: "A review from a Baldur's Gate fanboy". Then at least you're admitting your bias and people know what to expect. Now you're just argueing your ass off for something you can't really deny. And not everyone is such a big Baldur's Gate fanboy, there are many other examples out there of amazing RPGs.

You still fail to get it. I'm not a BG fanboy. Fanboys say: NOTHING WILL EVER TOUCH MA GAME!!1!! I actually want a game to surpass BG2. I want a game to be better. I want people to experience a great RPG with a brilliant story. I want developers to up their game and do their best to make the next greatest thing. This is simply not it. I wish it was, but it isn't. Not that it's a bad game, but it's certainly not the revelation they promised it to be. I have high hopes for Pillars of Eternity though; who are using the same marketing skills as Larian did. 'Going back to the roots of cRPGS". And I actually do think you can compare BG2 to Ultima VII, they have a lot in common, as does this game. Now please, understand that i'm not a BG2 fanboy and again I WANT a game to surpass it.

[Lock]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από iemander:

Here's what I posted about this in another thread:
I think there's a lot of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ going around on this forum. Just read a thread of someone who think Baldur's Gate is the one big example that all RPGs need to strive for.

Screw that,

1. I don't want my Risen turned into "Just another Baldur's Gate clone"
2. I don't want my Xenoblade Chronicles/Xenogears turned into "Just another Baldur's Gate clone"
3. I don't want my X3: Reunion turned into "Just another Baldur's Gate clone"
4. I don't want my Fallout turned into "Just another Baldur's Gate clone"
5. I don't want my Skyrim turned into "Just another Baldur's Gate clone"
6. I don't want my Tales of Vesperia turned into "Just another Baldur's Gate clone"
7. I don't want my Divinity: Original Sin turned into "Just another Baldur's Gate clone"

Baldur's Gate was great, but come on let's move on and make more unique experiences instead of moaning about the same game time and again.

I don't want any of those games to be like BG2 either. I want my topdown western RPGS to be like BG2 though. This is a western topdown party based RPG, just like BG2, same genre. Isn't it logical to compare the 2? FFVII, Risen, X3, and Skyrim are not topdown party based western RPG's.

[iemander]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Lockmort:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από iemander:

And you can absolutely compare Baldur's Gate with Divinity: Original Sin, but if you're real about doing it honestly and not as a fanboy. You should compare both games' merits, not just Baldur's Gate's.

I don't think so many people would complain about your thread if the heading said: "A review from a Baldur's Gate fanboy". Then at least you're admitting your bias and people know what to expect. Now you're just argueing your ass off for something you can't really deny. And not everyone is such a big Baldur's Gate fanboy, there are many other examples out there of amazing RPGs.

You still fail to get it. I'm not a BG fanboy. Fanboys say: NOTHING WILL EVER TOUCH MA GAME!!1!! I actually want a game to surpass BG2. I want a game to be better. I want people to experience a great RPG with a brilliant story. I want developers to up their game and do their best to make the next greatest thing. This is simply not it. I wish it was, but it isn't. Not that it's a bad game, but it's certainly not the revelation they promised it to be. I have high hopes for Pillars of Eternity though; who are using the same marketing skills as Larian did. 'Going back to the roots of cRPGS". And I actually do think you can compare BG2 to Ultima VII, they have a lot in common, as does this game. Now please, understand that i'm not a BG2 fanboy and again I WANT a game to surpass it.

If people at the time BG got released had the same mentality as you do now, it would probably have been forgotten very fast. As I mentioned before, BG doesn't really have that good of a story, it already has been surpassed a long long time ago. The gameplay systems as well, long been surpassed. World building too, also been surpassed.

Your problem is that you're so focused on this one specific game that it's impossible for you to open your eyes to what else is out there and start judging games on their own merits instead of what you expect them to be.

Anyway, I totally dissagree, perhaps you're in denial for some weird psychological reason, but you're the very definition of a fanboy.

[feliscon]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Lockmort:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από iemander:

Here's what I posted about this in another thread:
I think there's a lot of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ going around on this forum. Just read a thread of someone who think Baldur's Gate is the one big example that all RPGs need to strive for.

Screw that,

1. I don't want my Risen turned into "Just another Baldur's Gate clone"
2. I don't want my Xenoblade Chronicles/Xenogears turned into "Just another Baldur's Gate clone"
3. I don't want my X3: Reunion turned into "Just another Baldur's Gate clone"
4. I don't want my Fallout turned into "Just another Baldur's Gate clone"
5. I don't want my Skyrim turned into "Just another Baldur's Gate clone"
6. I don't want my Tales of Vesperia turned into "Just another Baldur's Gate clone"
7. I don't want my Divinity: Original Sin turned into "Just another Baldur's Gate clone"

Baldur's Gate was great, but come on let's move on and make more unique experiences instead of moaning about the same game time and again.

I don't want any of those games to be like BG2 either. I want my topdown western RPGS to be like BG2 though. This is a western topdown party based RPG, just like BG2, same genre. Isn't it logical to compare the 2? FFVII, Risen, X3, and Skyrim are not topdown party based western RPG's.

I think your genre concepts are too broad... and even then D:OS shouldn't be judged by all the same standards as it CLEARLY has different goals than BG, not just the same goals met poorly.