An honest review from a non fanboy

[Lock]

My favorite game, or RPG, of all time is Baldur's Gate 2. Nothing has ever come close to surpassing its excellence in storytelling, immersion, sound and overall design. I've played every CRPG that came out since, and although many people might disagree with this, the only games that ever came close for me were The Witcher 2 and (yes) Skyrim. I kind of liked Dragon Age: Origins, but it just didn't grip me. I even liked Dragon Age 2, but again, it didn't grip me enough. I liked Fallout 3, and Fallout: New Vegas, but after playing Oblivion, they just felt like more of the same. Mass Effect 1,2 and even 3 were great, but they were not RPG's in the same way The Walking Dead is not an RPG. I've played Diablo 2 & 3, and they were fun hack&slash games, but nothing more. I've played Avernum and Abadon, but even though they came out a decade later, they felt older than the Baldur's Gate series and so I couldn't enjoy them as much. I've played many more game, but nothing ever came close.

Now as a Belgian myself (sorry about last night US people), I remember being all hyped up when Larian released Divine Divinty more than a decade ago. I bought it, played it, and... I didn't like it. It lacked all the good qualities the Baldur's Gate series had. An epic story with personal stakes, excellent companions with their own personal stories, and quests which would take you all over the world and would take weeks to complete. Divine Divinty was "meh". It tried, it did it's best, but it never came close to the brilliance that Baldur's Gate (or even Fallout) was. I remember Larian promoting it as if they combined Diablo 2 with Infinity Engine games. This was simply not true. It wasn't a bad game, not at all, it just wasn't great. The misplaced "humor" and unepicness caused me to not finish the game and simply to forget about it after 20 hours or so.

Almost a decade later, Larian released Divinity 2. It had exactly the same problems as Divine Divinity, and this time I didn't like it at all. The story made no sense, there were literally no interesting characters and moving from a topdown RPG to a 3rd person action adventure was completely the wrong way to go. Next came Dragon Commander, not an RPG, but again, they promoted it as a hybrid between an RPG and an RTS. I didn't like it at all, it had the exact same problems.

I have no clue as to why, but when Larian announced Divinity: Original Sin, I got real excited. A promise to go back to the days of the old infinity games. An epic story! Memorable companions! Top down perspective! Turn based combat! New graphics! This was almost to good to be true. I'm not for the whole Kickstarter, Steam Early Access, idea. In my opinion it doesn't work and I still have to see the first game that gets released through these mediums which is actually good. Against my better knowledge I decided to buy it anyway. This couldn't go wrong right? They promised all the right things...

And here we are, and after 15 hours in, I can safely say that Larian did it again. Once again they made a mediocre RPG which promises to capture the same feeling the old infinity games did, but fails in the execution. It's quite easy to pinpoint where this went wrong: the writing. Again; a dull story which nobody will remember in a few weeks. Bland characters you don't really care about. And a journey that will take you through 4 kind of the same maps with not that much to do. Where is our epic villain? Who doesn't remember Jon Irenicus? What about Minsc and Boo? Did Cyseal have a serial killer who escapes you but turns up 30 hours later in a different city? Divinity Original Sin doesn't have any of that. It's a pretty nice dungeon crawler with a sort of decent combat system and filled with forgettable characters and quests. I'm 100% positive that if they hired the right writers, this could have been a game of epic proportions. But once again they failed to attract the right talent and what we are left with is a game filled with "funny" dialogue where your actions have no consequences and your companions are the stereotypical "imma gud fiter" or "Im a very intelligent wizard". After all this negativity it might sound like I hate Original Sin, I don't. It's a good RPG, and I will finish it in the following weeks, but it is by no means the revelation it was supposed, or could, have been.

If you want a true successor to the old CRPGS, I suggest you watch Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity, that looks like the game (I for one) have been waiting for all these years. But still, congrats on a nice game Larian, I hope it sells well and that it brings enough money to the table for you to hire a decent writing team for your next game.

7/10

[Lock]

biggn82 の投稿を引用：

Steam level 0 with a locked profile and you played it for 15 hours and have come to a conclusion, give me a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ break. I've played 30 hours like one guy mentioned above and am still in the first city near the very beginning of the game and find new stuff and exploring etc and not once has the game become dull or boring, it's been the opposite in fact. Try playing the game awhile before you start spouting random ♥♥♥♥ and comparing it to 15 year old games. Seriously. I guarantee this game will provide over 100 hours of fun. As far as I've found it is open world, I can choose to go wherever I want to go, so I don't see what you're saying there, not to mention the graphics are awesome and I can zoom in on my characters and see them in detail if I choose to, there has not been a single bad thing about this game as of yet and yes like the same guy mentioned above there are merchants everywhere and in fact you can trade with anyone you talk to in the game, so basically every single person is a merchant. People with steam level 0 locked profiles are sketchy at best.

First of all, I have my steam profile on private so creeps like you won't pester me with their incoherent ramblings. Second of all, I'm 25 hours in now. The fact that you're saying that zooming in on your characters is a great deal and is one of the things that makes this game great is reason enough for me not to listen to anything you have to say. You can garantee all you want, fact is you don't know anything we don't. This is a good game, it's just not the revelation they promised it to be. If you made a compelling argument I would send you a steam friend request, but somehow I'm glad I didn't.

[Scerene]

actually even divinity original sin has more personality than skyrim :p the only advantage skyrim has over other games is that its "open world" in the sense that you can go anywhere you want whenever you want, and i feel like too often people are associating that with "the one big feature" an rpg is supposed to have, despite the fact theres not much in the game that is particularly rpg-like aside from it.

[Scerene]

but ya skyrim is more fun than original sin, because it features voice acting has a more serious tone, beautiful graphics made even better through mods and other gameplay mechanics.

[Lock]

Scerene の投稿を引用：

you have really bizarre and contradictory standards for rpgs lockmort. It seems anything that you really like=true rpg, and the things that you arent so satisfied arent a true rpg :p how anybody can suggest that skyrim has better writing than dragon age is beyond me, and ive spent over 200 hours on both games, so i know what i am talking about. skyrim has non existent companions, npcs with no personality,,main quest is very bare, the world itself lacks personality, boring npc interaction. the only interesting storyline it had was the dark brotherhood, the rest of the time you are running around aimlessly or doing one of the boring faction quests.

For the 100000000th time; All I want from an RPG is a good story. Skyrim had an excellent story according to me. I know a lot of people disagree with that, but it is what it is. I almost wish I never mentioned Skyrim in the first place, but that would be unfair. This is how I feel and I apreciate the fact that you think otherwise, but we just have to agree to disagree here. The world in Skyrim held a lot of personality for me, I liked all the guild and main quests and the Sam Gueveure hangover quest is probably the best quest any RPG has ever given me. I do agree that the companions were very bland. I enjoyed it way more than Dragon Age Origins or Dragon Age 2. I don't know how you got 200 hours on Dragon Age, but I honestly thought the story was pretty bad. I do rspect your opinion though and I'm happy you're having so much fun with Original Sin.

[Arkeus]

Lockmort の投稿を引用：

That's an interesting point you bring up there. Are "good" RPG's the ones where we actually have a lot of choices? A lot of games these days claim to have a lot of choices, but this generally means they have 3 or 4 seperate endings (Mass Effect). I think the game where your choices really mathered the most was The Witcher 2. The whole of act 3 would change depending on how you played the previous acts. But I don't think choices alone are what makes a good RPG. I'm looking for 4 key aspects in the perfect RPG: Overal Story - Villains and companions - combat mechanics - and choices. Those are the 4 pillars I judge an RPG on. Original Sin has nice combat mechanics but that's about it. Sure, there are a lot of ways to solve quests, but that won't reflect on the overal gameworld.

Man, everything you say is such a joke.

Not only is there much more choices in D:OS than in BG and Witcher combined, but they have deeper repercussions on the game world.

Have you /seriously/ played 15hrs? Or are your '15hrs' more or less "i remade my characters and got out of the tutorial?".

Because between this and claiming that BG2 is "superior" for having quests like The Tanner (when D:OS actually has at least 5 quests, right off the bat, that are going to be similar but better done) it makes everything you say a bit of a joke.

Not only that, but how the heck can you say "overall story" is one of your criteria when you talk about ME or BG2 (I'd give you Witcher, even if...welll... it's very juvenile and pretentious), all the while ignoring that D:OS' story is actually quite a bit more solid when you come down to it?

Characters... Well, /who/ are the characters you are interested in? Villains in D:OS are pretty great. Gimmicky characters are fun. The companions are kinda boring though, but very few games have done good companions (i am going to commit heresy here and say that beyond Planescape Torment, the only good companion i can remember offhand are Avelline and Varric in DA2).

Combat mechanics clearly have D:OS being well and superior of any rpg i can think of offhand, but i am /definitely/ in the honeymoon phase of the game, i would have to wait again to see.

Choices, i will repeat, is where D:OS shine the most- not only do you have way more ways to solve any quests than in WITCHER/P:T combined (let's not even talk about jokes like BG2), but everything you do has consequences on the world and the setting.

So, i am guessing more and more that you just complaign about stuff in your head.

[Scerene]

but you seem to assume that your definition of a "good story" is the "one true definition" of a good story, and you clearly havent been paying attention because ive been on your side for a good part of this discussion. I agree with many of the things you say about original sin, but im calling you out on your own ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

you talk as though your thoughts are an absolute fact. You want a "good story" but provide very vague and contradictory definitions for what that entails, and then provide games that are largely considered to have weak stories as an example

[Lock]

Arkeus の投稿を引用：

Lockmort の投稿を引用：

That's an interesting point you bring up there. Are "good" RPG's the ones where we actually have a lot of choices? A lot of games these days claim to have a lot of choices, but this generally means they have 3 or 4 seperate endings (Mass Effect). I think the game where your choices really mathered the most was The Witcher 2. The whole of act 3 would change depending on how you played the previous acts. But I don't think choices alone are what makes a good RPG. I'm looking for 4 key aspects in the perfect RPG: Overal Story - Villains and companions - combat mechanics - and choices. Those are the 4 pillars I judge an RPG on. Original Sin has nice combat mechanics but that's about it. Sure, there are a lot of ways to solve quests, but that won't reflect on the overal gameworld.

Man, everything you say is such a joke.

Not only is there much more choices in D:OS than in BG and Witcher combined, but they have deeper repercussions on the game world.

Have you /seriously/ played 15hrs? Or are your '15hrs' more or less "i remade my characters and got out of the tutorial?".

Because between this and claiming that BG2 is "superior" for having quests like The Tanner (when D:OS actually has at least 5 quests, right off the bat, that are going to be similar but better done) it makes everything you say a bit of a joke.

Not only that, but how the heck can you say "overall story" is one of your criteria when you talk about ME or BG2 (I'd give you Witcher, even if...welll... it's very juvenile and pretentious), all the while ignoring that D:OS' story is actually quite a bit more solid when you come down to it?

Characters... Well, /who/ are the characters you are interested in? Villains in D:OS are pretty great. Gimmicky characters are fun. The companions are kinda boring though, but very few games have done good companions (i am going to commit heresy here and say that beyond Planescape Torment, the only good companion i can remember offhand are Avelline and Varric in DA2).

Combat mechanics clearly have D:OS being well and superior of any rpg i can think of offhand, but i am /definitely/ in the honeymoon phase of the game, i would have to wait again to see.

Choices, i will repeat, is where D:OS shine the most- not only do you have way more ways to solve any quests than in WITCHER/P:T combined (let's not even talk about jokes like BG2), but everything you do has consequences on the world and the setting.

So, i am guessing more and more that you just complaign about stuff in your head.

Thank you for bringing this up. You've just made it very easy for me to make you understand what I mean. Name me 5 memorable Original Sin characters. Characters you will remember for years. I can't name one. Baldur's Gate had Irenicus, Bodhi, Korgan, Minsc & Boo, Jaheira, Jan Janssen, Drizzt, Imoen, ... Planescape Torment had Mort, Dhak'kon, Annah, Ignus, Fall from Grace,... Arcanum had Vigil, The Witcher had Tess, Triss, Foltest, Zoltan and ofcourse Gerald. Skyrim had Phaarturnax, Esbern, Tulius, Ulfric, Babette, Cicero,... And these are all just from the top of my head. Now name me a few memorable ones from Original Sin please.

Not one choice you make in Original Sin has repercusions for the rest of the game (so far). The world is divided into 4 big areas, there is no open world, there are no siequests which take you from one place to the next, its filled with hubs like any generic MMO and there is literally no memorable villain. Mind you, I still hope this will change along the line. I'm only 25 hours in so I don't know the full story yet, but so far I've seen nothing that I will remember in a few months.

The overal story in Baldur's Gate 2 is considered to be the greatest in any RPG ever. Not just by me, but by most gaming sites on the planet. There is a reason for that.

[biggn82]

Lockmort の投稿を引用：

biggn82 の投稿を引用：

Steam level 0 with a locked profile and you played it for 15 hours and have come to a conclusion, give me a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ break. I've played 30 hours like one guy mentioned above and am still in the first city near the very beginning of the game and find new stuff and exploring etc and not once has the game become dull or boring, it's been the opposite in fact. Try playing the game awhile before you start spouting random ♥♥♥♥ and comparing it to 15 year old games. Seriously. I guarantee this game will provide over 100 hours of fun. As far as I've found it is open world, I can choose to go wherever I want to go, so I don't see what you're saying there, not to mention the graphics are awesome and I can zoom in on my characters and see them in detail if I choose to, there has not been a single bad thing about this game as of yet and yes like the same guy mentioned above there are merchants everywhere and in fact you can trade with anyone you talk to in the game, so basically every single person is a merchant. People with steam level 0 locked profiles are sketchy at best.

First of all, I have my steam profile on private so creeps like you won't pester me with their incoherent ramblings. Second of all, I'm 25 hours in now. The fact that you're saying that zooming in on your characters is a great deal and is one of the things that makes this game great is reason enough for me not to listen to anything you have to say. You can garantee all you want, fact is you don't know anything we don't. This is a good game, it's just not the revelation they promised it to be. If you made a compelling argument I would send you a steam friend request, but somehow I'm glad I didn't.

I was just pointing out that you can do that and I enjoy the fact that you can and I wouldn't care if you sent me an invite or not honestly, steam level 0 locked profiles are sketchy as hell, you could have just come in here to start a big thread because your a troll and that's exactly what you wanted, people going back and forth, it tells me that you just created the account just to post this. I don't go after people on their profile like a lunatic but I'll gladly reply to idiots on the forums. I like Skyrim as much as the next person, have it on here and console but I do think it's a tad overrated and didn't deserve goty when it won because it was a big buggy mess that took a long ass time to fix. I honestly don't see how anyone could not love this game if they like RPGS, it's been nothing but amazing so far, at least the way I see it.

[Josch]

I agree with Lockmort, to a certain degree. I didn't expect another Baldurs Gate, but I thought Larian would put more effort into crafting a believeable World, with charismatic and interesting Characters (including a cool villain of course!) and an epic journey through Rivellon.

Yes, they created a pretty cool combat system (I only wish you could increase the animation speed a bit) and the general gameplay elements are solid. But it feels like NWN 1 all over again: A mediocre campaign with a big editor and a coop-based game. Maybe I am weird, but I don't want to play RPGs in multiplayer, I want to enjoy the writing, I want to immerse myself into the world but I can't do it with other people in Teamspeak to be honest.

There are almost no good party based RPGs anymore, everythign is watered down to mindless action. There are good stories with good worlds, in the Witcher series for example, but gameplay wise it's so dull compared to Baldurs Gate 2 for example.

Someone in this thread said, that Baldurs Gate wasn't that good and it's mostly nostalgia speaking, but let me tell you, I play the BG Trilogy every few years and it is still the only roleplaying game in history, which combines a perfect smooth but challenging gameplay (apart from the first ~3 Levels, from there on you won't have any onehits anymore), an engaging story about YOUR character (not about saving the world from some invasion - I am watching at you Dragon Age Origins) and believable and charismatic NPCs with lots of party banter.

I have no time to write anymore, and I like Divinity: OS, but I really wish Larian would have put their focus a little different. This is just my opinion, so don't kill me for it :P

[SeraphLance]

Scerene の投稿を引用：

but you seem to assume that your definition of a "good story" is the "one true definition" of a good story, and you clearly havent been paying attention because ive been on your side for a good part of this discussion. I agree with many of the things you say about original sin, but im calling you out on your own ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

you talk as though your thoughts are an absolute fact. You want a "good story" but provide very vague and contradictory definitions for what that entails, and then provide games that are largely considered to have weak stories as an example

Keep in mind that he's stood behind the idea that his opinions are his own, and not necessary a matter of fact. This is a rating thread, and contrary to what some may think, personal opinions DO have a place in ratings of artistic material.

[Lock]

Scerene の投稿を引用：

but you seem to assume that your definition of a "good story" is the "one true definition" of a good story, and you clearly havent been paying attention because ive been on your side for a good part of this discussion. I agree with many of the things you say about original sin, but im calling you out on your own ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

you talk as though your thoughts are an absolute fact. You want a "good story" but provide very vague and contradictory definitions for what that entails, and then provide games that are largely considered to have weak stories as an example

The only game that I brought up that is considered weak in the story department is Skyrim. I know a lot of people don't like it because of that, but I do. I have absolutely nothing against people saying that I'm wrong if they bring compelling arguments to the table, but half of the time it's just them shouting that I'm a bioware fanboy. I'm sorry if I offended you, that wasn't what I meant. I appreciate the fact that you're calling me out on stuff I said that's contradicting, but I don't really get it. Also, I really don't think my opinions are facts. They are my opinions. Just as your opinions are yours, I don't have anything against them. I've had a few really fun discussions on here and hope we can continue to have them.

[Lock]

Josch の投稿を引用：

I agree with Lockmort, to a certain degree. I didn't expect another Baldurs Gate, but I thought Larian would put more effort into crafting a believeable World, with charismatic and interesting Characters (including a cool villain of course!) and an epic journey through Rivellon.

Yes, they created a pretty cool combat system (I only wish you could increase the animation speed a bit) and the general gameplay elements are solid. But it feels like NWN 1 all over again: A mediocre campaign with a big editor and a coop-based game. Maybe I am weird, but I don't want to play RPGs in multiplayer, I want to enjoy the writing, I want to immerse myself into the world but I can't do it with other people in Teamspeak to be honest.

There are almost no good party based RPGs anymore, everythign is watered down to mindless action. There are good stories with good worlds, in the Witcher series for example, but gameplay wise it's so dull compared to Baldurs Gate 2 for example.

Someone in this thread said, that Baldurs Gate wasn't that good and it's mostly nostalgia speaking, but let me tell you, I play the BG Trilogy every few years and it is still the only roleplaying game in history, which combines a perfect smooth but challenging gameplay (apart from the first ~3 Levels, from there on you won't have any onehits anymore), an engaging story about YOUR character (not about saving the world from some invasion - I am watching at you Dragon Age Origins) and believable and charismatic NPCs with lots of party banter.

I have no time to write anymore, and I like Divinity: OS, but I really wish Larian would have put their focus a little different. This is just my opinion, so don't kill me for it :P

That is the best argument I've come across so far. A story about YOUR character, not a generic 'save the world from a terrible evil" plot. Great stuff.

[Scerene]

SeraphLance の投稿を引用：

Scerene の投稿を引用：

but you seem to assume that your definition of a "good story" is the "one true definition" of a good story, and you clearly havent been paying attention because ive been on your side for a good part of this discussion. I agree with many of the things you say about original sin, but im calling you out on your own ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

you talk as though your thoughts are an absolute fact. You want a "good story" but provide very vague and contradictory definitions for what that entails, and then provide games that are largely considered to have weak stories as an example

Keep in mind that he's stood behind the idea that his opinions are his own, and not necessary a matter of fact. This is a rating thread, and contrary to what some may think, personal opinions DO have a place in ratings of artistic material.

then it begs the question, why does he keep responding and justifying it(very arrogantly i might add). Contrary to what *you* may think, a true and good rating is provided by people who are able to see beyond there own preferences. What use does a review have if you are judging it almost entirely based on what you like/want/think/ something should be rather than what it is on its own merits. if i was going to write a review on strawberry cake, but spent most of it talking about how i like pancakes better, and wish the strawberrycake could be more like a pancake, that it had potential to be a pancake, then of course people who prefer the berry cake are going to react with eye rolls. its a strange way to review something and expect to be taken seriously. I actually think that lockmart was fairer and more neutral at the start, but now i get the sense that he is stirring the pot. Although i can understand him, considering how many insults he has received.

[Lock]

Scerene の投稿を引用：

SeraphLance の投稿を引用：

Keep in mind that he's stood behind the idea that his opinions are his own, and not necessary a matter of fact. This is a rating thread, and contrary to what some may think, personal opinions DO have a place in ratings of artistic material.

then it begs the question, why does he keep responding and justifying it(very arrogantly i might add). Contrary to what *you* may think, a true and good rating is provided by people who are able to see beyond there own preferences. What use does a review have if you are judging it almost entirely based on what you like/want/think/ something should be rather than what it is on its own merits. if i was going to write a review on strawberry cake, but spent most of it talking about how i like pancakes better, and wish the strawberrycake could be more like a pancake, that it had potential to be a pancake, then of course people who prefer the berry cake are going to react with eye rolls. its a strange way to review something and expect to be taken seriously. I actually think that lockmart did that, but now i get the sense that he is stirring the pot.

If I was just here to stir the pot I would come out and say you're "dumb" and your opinion doesn't matter and that you're "arrogant" for thinking otherwise. The only thing I want are good arguments, that's not a lot to ask. Every time I reply to a post, it's to try and give people an insight as to why I think this game isn't what they claim it to be. I've had a lot of people here disagreeing with me and others who think a like, but in a respectful, constructive and most of all coherent way. Again: I like the fact that you disagree with me if you bring a compelling argument to the table. Saying "IF YOU LIKE SKYRIM UR DUMB, SKYRIM HAS A BAD STORY", doesn't do anything. That's not an argument. It's just your opinion stated as fact. Why am I dumb for liking Skyrim? I've tried to point out to you why I think Skyrim's story was excellent (again: the civil war quest made very huge changes to the gaming world and the hangover quest you got from Sam Gueveune was the best quest I've ever seen in any game; that's why I like Skyrim's story). If you think otherwise, I like that, but I want to know why ofcourse. And you're right, I started out more friendly, but I'm really tired now (been up for 24 hours) so I'm a bit more snappy. But as soon as I wake up in a few hours I'll be fresh and friendly again :).

[Metsakurat]

I love the game. I really do...but i got to agree with the OP on couple of things: The storytelling is weak. I've spent over 25h on my first playthrough and i couldn't care less about the story, about my companions or hell, not even about my main characters.
The people in this game are shallow and boring. The story doesn't even try to be interesting or even trying to tell itself...it's just so so.
You could say that it's poor writing...maybe. The story might be well written but it is poorly delivered to you

What certainly are poorly written tho, are the main protagonists. I care about them just as much as i care about my Barbarian in Diablo 2: Not at all. I just want them to stay alive to finish the game.

Everything else in the game is brilliant tho. Love the artstyle, humour, freedom, gameplay...everything!

But it is a bad sign when people play your RPG for the gameplay, not for the characters/story. Seriously, i don't give two shaits about the story.

EDIT: It's still one of my potential GOTY so far. A brilliant game!
EDIT2: I guess i'm in the love with the game for the same reasons i loved XCom: The turn-based combat.
Ofc the combat in RPGs is important (Baldur's Gate) but the main focus should be on the story, the world and characters. - Something that D: OS fails to deliver. The world is shallow and quite dead to be honest. The repeating townsfolk doesn't help much either.
It's a good turn-based strategy game with a bit of roleplaying thrown into it.