Baldur's Gate vs. Divinity Original Sin -- Difficulty, Gameplay etc.

[raubrey]

It's very easy to become sentimental about a game and overlook its flaws, and both Baldur's Gate and D:OS are no exception. That said I think some of us have been hypercritical of Divinity Original Sin – fan or not.

By this I mean, I have started my 3rd or 4th replay of BG/ Enhanced and had forgotten some things, things which people tend to complain about in this game.

Difficulty: Goodness, I forgot how hilariously hard BG can be --some might use the word unbalanced.

After losing my party at level 1 to one vampire dog and his friend (and reloading because there are no resurrection spells (like in D:OS) only temples and I'm dirt poor) I went to one of the towns.

I had to laugh at the massacre that took 10 reloads to get through – at an Inn no less. (You have to rest in BG -- a feature I miss).

I think I usually die in this particular fight (because of the charm) while my companions save the day, but my character was a stronger dual-wield kensai build and instead was charmed and stayed alive long enough to kill half my party (after the enemy is dead, a civilian (if I move the party outside) and may or may not die myself depending on the situation.

I eventually got through this but there is nothing that compares with this fiasco early game in D:OS. Generally cities are safe, certainly inn's and generally you can see the level of an enemy and have time to run (though I could/should have scouted when the vampire dog hit, I'm not sure it would have mattered – I simply went the “wrong way”).

Camera Angle: A lot of people don't like the limited rotation of the camera While I do prefer NWN and the ability to do a 360 degree turn, in Baldur's Gate you can't turn the camera at all.

Movement: Party movement is at least as slow in BG, and probably slower unless you mod/hack it.

Money: I think money is too easy to obtain in D:OS but I'm kind of glad – at least thieves can do something. Money is so scarce in BG – I think both games go to the extreme.

Character Building: I think D:OS wins this hands down with all the skills/abilities. I am still partial to NWN 1-2 but I find it much more enjoyable than in BG.

In any event, I am sure I will come across more things that I like more or less in Divinity OS vs. BG but my point is that it is easy to miss the improvements D:OS has in game balance and the like as long as you take the game slow and watch where you are going. No bull in a china shop here or BG for that matter.

In my opinion, Baldur's gate has a better story and dialog (to a degree – Larian has a unique style) whereas D:OS has a very good story but somehow it is less immersion (this can be due to any number of factors and of course is subjective).

At the end of the day I give D:OS an 8/10 and think Larian did a darn fine job at modernizing a cRPG.

But I'll say one thing, if you are new to the genre play Baldur's Gate first (BG 2 is better if I recall) and THEN play D:OS. You may find you appreciate the game even more.

(And yes, I know Ultima and the like was even harder).

So with all the new people asking about BG vs. D:OS, what is your take on the two?


*still laughing about killing my own party and a civillian* BG charm spells -- ugh!

[Warren]

Didn't know of this Baulder's Gate, gonna try it.

[raubrey]

Warren の投稿を引用：

Didn't know of this Baulder's Gate, gonna try it.

Good deal -- it's really worth playing. I suggest the Enhanced version which often goes on sale. Otherwise I recommend the D&D Anthology (with patches) on Gamersgate or wherever you can get it (GOG, I think) -- where you can also get Icewind Dale etc. and when it goes on sale, it's a LOT of game for the buck.

BG2 is better -- a lot of people seem to think -- but you'll want to play one first.

[Crazy Alchemy]

Well in terms of difficulty I'd say that Divinity OS is more punishing but that all depends on your build in BG and how you play it, and I'll compare to Shadows of Amn since it has far more content in regards to NPC's, conversations, and quests.

There are all kinds of characters to interact with and all kinds of quests some of which are rather ridiculous (in a good way), you'll be running all over the place and interacting with all sorts of creatures in all sorts of ways. You get a lot of dialogue options and can decide to finish various quests in different ways.

The writing is comparable, though one difference is that the morality system is replaced with a personality system and making choices often leads to a frustrating game of rock paper scissors with a companion that you always have with you. The results of personality choices are also instant and have a stat impact instead of waiting until the end of the game to be seen.

You can zoom and rotate the camera and do all sorts of things with it but for the most part you'll probably play top down isometric.

The control scheme is far more intuitive and far superior to NWN, which was always horribly clunky at the best of times, one complaint I have about the controls is that in the combat (which is turned based) it's easy to accidentally move because the same button is used for moving and attacking.

And you can go around killing your party and civilians in this game if you're not careful. I accidentally blew my team up with a fireball.

[raubrey]

Communist Gamer の投稿を引用：

And you can go around killing your party and civilians in this game if you're not careful. I accidentally blew my team up with a fireball.

In the enhanced version you can get a Wild Mage -- I took her in and am a tad nervous about it (i.e. friendly fire) I loved SoA as I recall but the games kind of blur together as to details.

[kaiyl_kariashi]

BG though has the big problem of being a HORRIBLE adaption of the rule-set it's VERY loosely based on. The combat is also terrible, and most of the kits and several of the spells are broken beyond belief. I literally can't enjoy playing the game anymore because it. (aside from my personal mod, which I've been slowly fixing what I can...but unfortunately..the holy grail of true turn-based will never happen).

It does have a pretty solid story, though SoA suffers a little towards the end due to rushing, and TOB is a horrible, linear piece of ♥♥♥♥.

The best D&D game to date is Temple of Elemental Evil, without contest. THAT is how a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ D&D game should be played. (post-Co8 fix-pack of course). The only way they could've improved it was add the ability to climb, jump, and fly.

[raubrey]

Communist Gamer の投稿を引用：

Well in terms of difficulty I'd say that Divinity OS is more punishing but that all depends on your build in BG and how you play it,

I think there are some harder battles in D:OS but I'm not sure if this is true across the board. Can you play BG with 2 characters (Lone Wolf etc.)?

[kaiyl_kariashi]

You can solo BG as anything. And you can solo BG2/TOB without ever leveling up once.

[Fera]

kaiyl, have you tried blackguards? It might not have the story, but I thought the turned based combat was pretty enjoyable.

[raubrey]

kaiyl_kariashi の投稿を引用：

You can solo BG as anything. And you can solo BG2/TOB without ever leveling up once.

I don't know if the average player can (if you're charmed/held once then what? -- the spells last too long) -- I will give it a shot (maybe) though it is difficult to imagine. I agree about the "broken" spells -- though if I recall they are improved later. D:OS spells are quite powered (e.g. teleport etc.) -- not a bad thing but I think you have stronger/better offense in D:OS.

[Free Luigi M.]

Well yeah, BG is hilariously unbalanced and is full of silly things. Like maximum number of spells per day and the resting mechanic. Without mentioning the terrible plot and story development.
But there is no camera rotation in BG because, you know, it's 2D.

[kaiyl_kariashi]

I've been tempted. I saw TB's review of it....but.....I do like a good story to go with my solid Turn-based combat.

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Joe Chip の投稿を引用：

Well yeah, BG is hilariously unbalanced and is full of silly things. Like maximum number of spells per day and the resting mechanic. Without mentioning the terrible plot and story development.
But there is no camera rotation in BG because, you know, it's 2D.

Actually those are some of the GOOD things about BG. (though the lack of enforced roleplaying is a downside). The plot is actually solid, especially BG1.. SoA is alright, though less interesting (David Warner as Irenicus is all that really sells SoA's plot which would otherwise be extremely cliche)...but ToB is a pile of ♥♥♥♥ due to how rushed it was.

Problem is undermining the spell capacity limits by allowing you rest almost whereever you want and without consequence. And not to mention the terrible adaption of certain spells or abilities (such as the Berserkers Enrage) that are ridiculously more powerful then they are supposed to be (such as Mislead, Spell Immunity, Project Image, Improved Aclarity, Wish, being prime examples of spells that the project director should've slapped the person working on them and fired them on the spot for even THINKING about implementing those abilities the way they were).

The use of personal initiative rounds forced them to remove or re-design most options for battles, which would've worked perfectly under a true turn based system, and also allows you to completely ignore the game mechanics because you can win any fight, no matter how badly you should be losing, simply because you're playing real-time in a system designed around being true turn-based and the ai simply can't handle it without breaking that as well.

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D&D spell casting is supposed to be powerful, not something you spam. And it is. By a LOT. 1 spell can easily turn aside what should've been a losing battle, even at the start of the game. And wands/spell scrolls exist to help give casters a little extra umph.

[Fera]

Well, I thought I should mention there is a 50% at GoG on blackguards, if there is any good time.

[Crazy Alchemy]

raubrey の投稿を引用：

Communist Gamer の投稿を引用：

And you can go around killing your party and civilians in this game if you're not careful. I accidentally blew my team up with a fireball.

In the enhanced version you can get a Wild Mage -- I took her in and am a tad nervous about it (i.e. friendly fire) I loved SoA as I recall but the games kind of blur together as to details.

Oh I meant in Original Sin, yeah in Shadows of Amn I had many magical accidents playing on hard difficulty.

[raubrey]

Communist Gamer の投稿を引用：

raubrey の投稿を引用：

In the enhanced version you can get a Wild Mage -- I took her in and am a tad nervous about it (i.e. friendly fire) I loved SoA as I recall but the games kind of blur together as to details.

Oh I meant in Original Sin, yeah in Shadows of Amn I had many magical accidents playing on hard difficulty.

Oh OK. I read that the only way to have a wild mage on Harcdore Difficulty is this NPC -- forget her name (Neera - found it) -- as you will (if "you" are a Wild Mage) at some point petrify yourself and your party. :D

[raubrey]

One of my favorite dialogs in BG -- White text.

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/558736503150555645/98E7A2391CDAFDD71310AE9367BFA5561C998396/

I need to find one for Divinity next playthrough -- I was too focused on the game to screenshot it.