Self-Improvement and Self-Enhancement

[urartu]

This might be a bit long but it may shed some light on a few issues.

SELF-IMPROVEMENT

In addition to the desire for an accurate sense of self, people are motivated by the desire to improve. Many people aim to improve their performance in sports and other leisure activities rather than maintain a static level of ability.

Self-improvement is often motivated by criticism, whether explicitly from others or implicitly by one's performance. The perception that one has failed or not achieved as much as one hoped can be esteem reducing. Self-improvement processes are more pronounced, and negative emotional reactions are weaker when failure is particular to a highly specific task, rather than a more global trait, such as intelligence. In this way, specificity of the failure can be self-protective, inspiring improvement in the specific situation or skill.

If you look from the perspective of self-improvement towards Age of Decadence, you may find the satisfaction in experimenting, improvising and improving yourself to adapt to the mechanics of the game. You are not unintelligent, incompetent or useless in any challenge. But you might be just not enough right now and should improve yourself.

SELF-ENHANCEMENT

Without some degree of accuracy and consistency in our self-image, we would be vulnerable to a host of faulty judgments and decisions. We also need to set goals, acquire new skills and information, and generally improve on the abilities and skills which are important to us. But our self-regulatory activies are also heavily determined by the need to feel good about ourselves and to maintain self-esteem. Self-enhancement is important especially following situations of threat, failure, or blows to self-esteem.

One way that people satisfy their self-enhancement needs is by holding self-perceptions that are falsely positive and somewhat exaggerated with respect to their actual abilities, talents and social skills. People see themselves more positively than is true; they believe they have more control over the events around them than is actually the case; and they are unrealistically optimistic about the future.

We often remember our performance as more positive than it actually was, we see ourselves as less biased than we believe others to be. We credit the football win to our own spectacular plays, but we attribute the loss to "a bad day" or "poor team coordination". When we do acknowledge our negative qualities, we often regard them as less important or consequential than our positive qualities. When people are in the process of deciding between alternative courses of action or setting goals, they are fairly accurate and honest with themselves. But once they move on to the task of implementing those goals, their positive illusions become more evident.

If you look at the game from self-enhancement perspective....man this game is a pure blow to self-esteem. The combat is quite based on luck, and there are not enough choices to advance the story or even complete a damn quest. And I frigging want to beat the thugs...why they keep beating me!? Computer definitely cheats here, no way my heavy armor and shield can be penetrable that easy! On and on.

As a finisher quote from the movie Revolver:

There is something about yourself that you don't know. Something that you will deny even exists until it's too late to do anything about it. It's the only reason you get up in the morning, the only reason you suffer the ♥♥♥♥♥♥ boss, the blood, the sweat and the tears. This is because you want people to know how good, attractive, generous, funny, wild and clever you really are. "Fear or revere me, but please think I'm special." We share an addiction. We're approval junkies. We're all in it for the slap on the back and the gold watch. The "hip, hip, hoo-♥♥♥♥♥♥♥-rah." Look at the clever boy with the badge, polishing his trophy. Shine on, you crazy diamond. Cos we're just monkeys wrapped in suits, begging for the approval of others.

[Yeizinho]

This is deep man.

[Elhoim]

Computer definitely cheats here, no way my heavy armor and shield can be penetrable that easy!

No, it doesn't. If it does, please report it since it must be a bug.

[urartu]

Originally posted by Elhoim:

No, it doesn't. If it does, please report it since it must be a bug.

That was an instance of perception where a case of self-enhancement addict would give. It does not feature a criticism against Age of Decadence. I know very well, it does not cheat ;)

[Elhoim]

Ah, alright, the lack of quotation marks made my brain fart :P

[Blackdragon]

*sigh* all right, I'll bite.

First off, the terms "self-improvement" and "self-enhancement" sound one and the same. For clarity, I'd suggest replacing the latter with something like "self-aggrandizement".

You are not unintelligent, incompetent or useless in any challenge. But you might be just not enough right now and should improve yourself.

No, sorry, in AoD there are some challenges you can never win, no matter how much you "improve yourself", because you didn't put a specificl point in a specific attribute at character creation or didn't advance a specific skill. So yeah, in those cases you're pretty much useless, as the game will not hesitate to tell you, and you can't do anything about it except playing the "correct" build (in which case you will probably lose other challenges).

The combat is quite based on luck

It is, though. Luck is the fundamental element of AoD's entire combat system.

and there are not enough choices to advance the story or even complete a damn quest

Occasionally there aren't. If you want to talk about it, you know where to do so (neighbouring thread).

they believe they have more control over the events around them than is actually the case; and they are unrealistically optimistic about the future.

Yeah, you're forgetting about all those shmoes who are, on the contrary, quite pessimistic about stuff and very self-critical of themselves. And funny thing is, every one of us is such a shmoe on occasion. *gasp* can life really be more complex than a two-bit quote from the back of a cereal box?

And now to that little nugget of wisdom at the end:

Something that you will deny even exists until it's too late to do anything about it. It's the only reason you get up in the morning, the only reason you suffer the ♥♥♥♥ty boss, the blood, the sweat and the tears. This is because you want people to know how good, attractive, generous, funny, wild and clever you really are. "Fear or revere me, but please think I'm special."

The only reason? That is laughable. This guy forgets about duty, love, interest in work and life, and claims everything you do is about self-aggrandizement? Pitiful. And stupid, too: if one's image in the eyes of others was all that ever mattered, people would be sacrificing themselves left and right to become "heroes", or commiting terrible crimes to be renowned as "villains". Guess what, they don't. Because stroking one's ego may be pleasant, but in the end it's just one minor facet of a person's character, and there's no point in making an absolute fetish out of it.

P.S. If you wanna talk about human psyche, better get a little more sophisticated than that. I have an entire shelf filled with C.G.Jung and S.S.Freud just begging to be dusted off.

P.P.S. Also, negatively labeling others is a way of self-aggrandizement too. Go figure.

[urartu]

@Blackdragon: You tell me get a little more sophisticated. But then at the start of your thread mention that change "self-enhancement" with "self-aggrandizement". But "self-enhancement" is already a psychological term. Apparently your books in the shelf will keep getting more dusty at this rate.

"Self-improvement" and "self-enhancement" are different. One is improving your level of skill in a matter, while the other is to provide a positive illusion about a matter. Working up your muscles to lift falls into category of self-improvement, while if you feel good because you lift more then your best friend that would be self-enhancement. Most of the western games, appeal to self-enhancement, hence their success.

And you definitely fit the perception I provided under self-enhancement. Thanks for the clarification.

Also movie quote there was just as a fun factor, nothing to take serious or I did not put it as a proof point.

And I am not labeling anyone negatively. There is no wrong in doing self-enhancement, we all do to a degree. Just some people do it more frequently, some of us do it rarely. So it is not an act of aggrandizement, it is about self and how you perceive it and its relation to self-esteem.

[Blackdragon]

Originally posted by urartu:

"self-enhancement" is already a psychological term. Apparently your books in the shelf will keep getting more dusty at this rate.

Apparently we're just reading different books. I prefer the classics.

And you definitely fit the perception I provided under self-enhancement.

And how about you:

"self-enhancement can cause the comparison of the self to a worse other, making the self seem greater in comparison (strategic social comparisons). The act of comparing intentionally to achieve superiority would be self-enhancement manifested as an underlying motive. It is the genuine desire to see the self as superior."

Seeing something familiar?

Also movie quote there was just as a fun factor, nothing to take serious or I did not put it as a proof point.

Then you probably shouldn't have put it as the finishing point to your soliloquy, or more clearly indicated that it was meant as a joke and not to be taken seriously. Just so, you know, it's not perceived as reflecting your actual opinion on the matter.

Originally posted by urartu:

And I am not labeling anyone negatively. There is no wrong in doing self-enhancement

Yeah, right. Nothing wrong with creating illusions about your own greatness at the expense of others.

And of course you didn't engage in any kind of discriminatory comparison:

we all do to a degree. Just some people do it more frequently, some of us do it rarely.

All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others? Bravo.

[greenj08]

*makes popcorn* I was totaly going to get in on this when it was first posted, so glad I didn't.

Why did you even post this in the first place urartu, your thesis statement isn't very clear.

"This might be a bit long but it may shed some light on a few issues."

I didn't know that these are issues we're having? Issues you're having? I don't get it, is this game PSY101... Am I missing something?

I take it you're really into this game?

alsoreallyintothisgamebutnotinthistypeofway

[urartu]

@Blackdragon: I have no idea how you associated my innocent post to National Socialist saying "All humans are equal, but some are more equal then others."

And clearly you do not know anything about self-enhancement despite being an unconscious practitioner of it. It is no creating illusions of grandeur at the expense of others. Only a severe case of it might lead to that conclusion.

And at this point you will take my every innocent comparison at the expense of others(which is not). :D

Despite I find classics insultive, let me go classic Freudian on you. Many computer games feed the reptile in your brain called as Id. Many games play to your primitive wants, reward center and desire of pleasure. Id doesn't want to fail and take lessons from that. And apparently some people are completely in the thrall of Id. Happy?

@greenj08: It was a psychological explanation of why some people enjoy AoD immensely and why some people keep complaining over and over and over. Attributing that the game cheats, it is unfair, there is not enough choices or possibilities etc etc.

Especially it explains why some people gets far less disturbed by failure why some people goes nuts. The thread itself does not aim to target people or insult at people. Because self-improvement and self-enhancement is a part of us, one or other is dominant in general.

And it is not about issues (as in serious problems) generally, it was an innocent debate over gamer psyche and apparently I was bored. It is not harmful to discuss such stuff from time to time. ;)

[Blackdragon]

Originally posted by urartu:

@Blackdragon: I have no idea how you associated my innocent post to National Socialist saying "All humans are equal, but some are more equal then others."

Have you really never read "Animal Farm"? Just google the quote rather than pulling Godwin's Law all of a sudden.

And do you truly not see the starking similarity of your statement and that quote from Orwell?

And at this point you will take my every innocent comparison at the expense of others(which is not). :D

Really? Let's have a look:

And clearly you do not know anything about self-enhancement despite being an unconscious practitioner of it.

So you claim that:

1. You are far more knowledgeable than I, as I don't know anything;

2. I am practicing self-enhancement, while you are not - you're just making "innocent comparisons".

Flaunting one's perceived superiority at the expense of another, while at the same time denying you're doing it? I.e. exaggerating your positive qualities while disregarding the negative ones, while doing the opposite in respect of the other? Looks like a "severe" case of "self-enhancement" to me.

FYI, most attempts at playing amateur psychologist and "diagnosing" other people in this manner usually amount to the same thing.

And before you claim again that it was all "innocent", let me remind you of that little bit:

self-enhancement addicts

Addicts, huh? It must feel really good to be so much above these unfortunate souls!

It is no creating illusions of grandeur at the expense of others. Only a severe case of it might lead to that conclusion.

"Falsely positive and exaggerated self-perception" - your words.

"Feel good because you lift more than your best friend" - your words.

Do I really need to connect all the dots here?

Despite I find classics insultive, let me go classic Freudian on you. Many computer games feed the reptile in your brain called as Id. Many games play to your primitive wants, reward center and desire of pleasure. Id doesn't want to fail and take lessons from that. And apparently some people are completely in the thrall of Id. Happy?

You're playing the same game here. Feeding your desire for pleasure by denigrating others. First it was "self-enhancement addicts", now "people completely in thrall of Id". Really enjoying riding that high horse, aren't you?

Healer, heal thyself.

[urartu]

I read Animal Farm and that refers to National Socialism in that quote. Just he used animals instead humans there. And the story is filled with countless allegories.

It is about self, not social interactions. When you feel better, because you scored better then your friend, do you gloat before him and jeopardize your friendship? Do you boast in the expense of people? It is not self-enhancement. Self-enhancement is about you. And it is common among such people to do "external attribution" such as attributing failures to external situations, but themselves. Self-improvement type people do "internal attribution" such as attributing failures to themselves.

I have no intention to flaunt any kind of superiority. Alas if I was superior, I would have convinced you by now, not deal with your butt-hurt self.

You fail to understand that initially I was not insulting you or anybody else, but apparently you are offended about it. It is a pattern about people.

If my style was insultive, I apologize. But one cannot state or discuss such things without offending anybody. Because everyone is hero, everyone is perfect, everyone is right and everyone is successful.

And calling me as "playing amateur psychologist" is nothing but "source derogation", you don't know whether I am an amateur psychologist or a real psychologist. And on top of it, to discuss psychology you do not need to be a psychologist.

And I am no healer or attempting to heal anybody. From your hostile attitude all over, I concluded that if I'd point sun, you would look at my finger ;)

[Yeizinho]

idk, I liked the fist post, made me reflect about life in general. I am in the middle of "finding myself" so I took it to heart..I just wonder if when reaching a stage where u are your own man and start answering only to yourself, that u have been programmed socialy by the cultural "wash" So you are more or less brainwashed to still act accordingly...Maybe not the forum for it. so I'll add: Block needs some lovin!

[urartu]

Exactly Xai, exactly! Block needs some love. :D

[Blackdragon]

Originally posted by urartu:

I read Animal Farm and that refers to National Socialism in that quote. Just he used animals instead humans there. And the story is filled with countless allegories.

Animal Farm is a satire on bolshevism/communism. It's amazing you don't know that. The quote has nothing to do with the Nazis (who never claimed equality, as their entire creed was based on discrimination), but everything to do with communists (who did claim equality but in a very hypocritical way).

What's even funnier, is that you fail to see how that quote applies to you. Truly, you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye.

It is about self, not social interactions. When you feel better, because you scored better then your friend, do you gloat before him and jeopardize your friendship? Do you boast in the expense of people? It is not self-enhancement. Self-enhancement is about you. And it is common among such people to do "external attribution" such as attributing failures to external situations, but themselves. Self-improvement type people do "internal attribution" such as attributing failures to themselves.

Thanks for making it so much clearer, now that you have drawn a line between "self-enhancement people", who actively deceive themselves about their own value, and "self-improvement people", who see themselves objectively.

Obviously, I am the former and you are the latter.

Feeling good about yourself yet? Was it all worth it?

I have no intention to flaunt any kind of superiority.

Then I must have imagined all those parts where you say I am delusional about myself and you are not.

Alas if I was superior, I would have convinced you by now, not deal with your butt-hurt self.

The list of insults just keeps on growing.

If my style was insultive, I apologize.

In the same post where you insult me again. Apology not accepted.

You fail to understand that initially I was not insulting you or anybody else, but apparently you are offended about it.

It is a wonder that you fail to understand how your spiels offend people.

Let me try to make it clear for you:

- saying people are "addicts" and "in thrall of their Id" is going to get them offended;

- caiming that others are engaged in dubious self-delusions about their personal worth, while at the same time denying it about yourself, is going to get them offended;

- in general lecturing others on their own state of mind, while having no professional knowledge of the topic, is going to get them offended.

It is a pattern about people.

So this is not the first time people are offended by your sanctimonious, hypocritical preaching? Why am I not surprised.

But one cannot state or discuss such things without offending anybody.

Actually, one can. It's pretty easy, too. I'll let you in on a little secret: it involves not calling people "addicts", "enthralled", "obsessed", "butt-hurt" etc., and not putting yourself above others.

Because everyone is hero, everyone is perfect, everyone is right and everyone is successful.

And most of all, YOU! You're the perfect hero here, right? Not subject to these pathetic self-delusions that poor "self-enhancement addicts" are suffering from.

And calling me as "playing amateur psychologist" is nothing but "source derogation", you don't know whether I am an amateur psychologist or a real psychologist.

If you are a real psychologist, I pity your clients. Although, who would pay to be counseled by someone like you, I find hard to imagine.

And on top of it, to discuss psychology you do not need to be a psychologist.

So my initial assessment was correct and you're not a psychologist but just playing at it.

And I am no healer or attempting to heal anybody.

What was the point of you starting this thread, again? Couldn't be to stroke your own ego, now could it?

From your hostile attitude all over, I concluded that if I'd point sun, you would look at my finger ;)

I wouldn't look at the sun, that's for sure. It's easy to go blind that way.

[urartu]

Blackdragon, please do not derail the discussion any further with your misconceptions.

Self-Enhancement is not delusion, Self-Improvement is not objective thinking. Simplifying things and creating imaginary insults towards yourself is quite weird. I have my self-enhancements such as I feel good and confident when playing Kingdoms of Amalur, slicing and dicing my path through enemies...but it does not add up something or make me think. I feel like a great hero and enhance my self. But AoD gives more satisfaction because you put effort forward and get rewarded for your thinking style and get punished at the same time, leaving room for retry and improvement. There is no pure self-enhancer or pure self-improver.

And sure, go ahead read about those topics, you will not get offended from a book saying those, but will get offended when a person puts them forward. And do not resort to derogate the source, this thread is not for flaming.

You say, I fall to pits I dug for others. But actually am aware about the pits I dig and when necessary I raise my spirits with a bit of self-enhancement, if it would make me operate better. The amount differs.

And Stalin was not Communist, Communism is an ideal....when you reach that ideal you would be communist. Without Communism, there would be no Communist. But Socialism exists and so does Socialists. They claimed to be Socialist and tyranny of proletariat, they screwed up pretty bad. Also in Animal Farm there are several allegories towards National Socialism. But when you look from one perspective you will only see a criticism of Bolshevism.