So how to get out of the old temple in Maadoran (gold quest)?

[Blackdragon]

First Assassin mission in Maadoran. I've managed to get to the temple, took some killing. Now I'm locked in 3 rooms with Levir and Hanza. Can't persuade Levir of anything. Can kill him and take his dagger, or talk to Hanza and admit defeat, but quest still failed.

Funny thing is, I got there through a hidden door in the stonework. But apparently I can't go back the same way.

Is this a bug or am I missing something? How do I as a fighting character get out of the temple without failing the quest? At the very least, why can't we fight our way out?

P.S. Moreover, I'm not getting SP for the people I kill. My bodycount keeps going higher, but SP stays the same, so that there is zero SP to be had from this quest.

Is a fighter assassin no longer a viable path in Maadoran? Is it obligatory to invest into social skills now?

[urartu]

I played a fighter assassin (Drifter background) but I had 4 in Persuasion so had no problem to convince Levir (except you give a word of honor to him in that case). You tried to look around for the secret exit? There is a corner which gives you some options, you could force it open I guess with various methods including Blackpowder.

[Blackdragon]

Originally posted by urartu:

I played a fighter assassin (Drifter background) but I had 4 in Persuasion so had no problem to convince Levir (except you give a word of honor to him in that case).

Well, I usually do my persuading with various metal implements. Didn't work this time.

You tried to look around for the secret exit? There is a corner which gives you some options, you could force it open I guess with various methods including Blackpowder.

I pixelhunted that entire location, didn't find anything useable. Will try again. I do have some black powder on me.

[Blackdragon]

Okay, pixelhunted again, there is nothing clickable in any of the 12 available corners.

Are you sure you're not talking about the way to get IN the temple? Cause I managed to do that with a Perception check. But for some reason I can't get out using the same path.

[Vince]

Originally posted by Blackdragon:

First Assassin mission in Maadoran. I've managed to get to the temple, took some killing. Now I'm locked in 3 rooms with Levir and Hanza. Can't persuade Levir of anything. Can kill him and take his dagger, or talk to Hanza and admit defeat, but quest still failed.

You can leave empty-handed and the game will continue. You can also make a deal with Levir and he'll let you leave with the gold (as payment for an unspecified future favor). Or you can find a way out.

Funny thing is, I got there through a hidden door in the stonework. But apparently I can't go back the same way.

The text explains that there are Levir's men outside who will tear you apart if you attempt to leave with the gold. You need to find another passage.

Is this a bug or am I missing something? How do I as a fighting character get out of the temple without failing the quest? At the very least, why can't we fight our way out?

How - see above. Why - logically, you are deep within the Slums, the thieves' guild's territory. Levir's men were distracted by a fake attack, but now they fell back to the temple. Realistically, it would be a fight of 2 against 20-30 men, i.e. a truly unwinnable fight.

Is a fighter assassin no longer a viable path in Maadoran? Is it obligatory to invest into social skills now?

It is viable, but don't expect to be able to complete every objective or optional goal.

Edit: pixel-hunting doesn't work in this game. It takes Perception 6 or higher (i.e. slightly above average) to see the first door, because it's frequently used (easier to spot due to the signs of use). The secret passage is an emergency exit and much better hidden. You need higher Perception to spot it. If you can't, either leave or make a deal with Levir.

[Blackdragon]

Vince, thanks for the reply, but the matter is, I CAN'T find this "hidden exit" everyone's talking about.

There's nothing clickable in the 3 rooms, talking with Levir is pointless since I don't have social skills, and the way I got in is now blocked.

So, once again, for a fighter assassin, is there a way to succeed in this quest? Or should I stop wasting my time and just turn it in as a failure?

And this is not an "optional goal". I've been trying to get through this quest for a while now, and it seems I'm not even getting any SP for it (not even for the people I killed).

[urartu]

Well, when I entered the one of the rooms, I got a notification there was something at the corner. But I had 8 Perception.

[Vince]

It is an optional goal because the game does not require you to complete it in order to progress. You can play as a fighter, but you have to realize that there will be things you won't be able to do, which is logical.

There are no SP per kill, but you should get SP per fights won, so if you fought on your way to the temple, you should have gotten something. If not, it's a bug. I'll double-check.

[Blackdragon]

Originally posted by urartu:

Well, when I entered the one of the rooms, I got a notification there was something at the corner. But I had 8 Perception.

I have 6 perception and haven't gotten any messages. Probably that's the reason I can't find the exit.

I think the better solution would make this spot clickable. So that people can see that there's something to do, and see that they're failing a perception check.

Originally posted by Vince:

It is an optional goal because the game does not require you to complete it in order to progress. You can play as a fighter, but you have to realize that there will be things you won't be able to do, which is logical.

All right, I would like to get this straight here,

When I started my Assassin playthrough, I wanted to make an assassin that would be the best at killing. I mean, that's what assassins do - they kill people, that's the common understanding. So I thought, if I'm very good at killing, at least I'll be able to do the Assassin Guild quests.

I understand about optional objectives. E.g. in the Aurelian spies mission, I couldn't get the reports. I thought it was a bit unfair (my character should have been given the option to intimidate or torture the spies to get this information), but OK, at least I've done the main quest.

But now I'm returning as a total failure. The Guildmaster doesn't even want to look my way. I've let literally a roomful of gold slip through our grasp.

And it turns out, what I needed was 8 Perception instead of 6 Perception. That's it. That's the difference between a successfull mission and a failed mission. No matter how hard you fight, if you don't have 8 Perception you fail the quest.

Why aren't there any options for fighters? I kill my way to the temple, get my hands on the friggin Guildmaster of the Thieves, the gold is right there, and I can't do anything because not enough Perception.

I don't know. It's just weird. And unsatisfying, I have to say it.

In the next mission, will I need 8 Charisma to succeed? Or maybe 8 Lore? Or should I pour my points into Streetwise? That would make me a better Assassin than training to kill, right?

There are no SP per kill, but you should get SP per fights won, so if you fought on your way to the temple, you should have gotten something. If not, it's a bug. I'll double-check.

I've killed 6 people in 2 fights, plus Levir himself which makes 7. After I get back to the Boatmen and report my failure, my SP are still the same as before I started the quest.

[Vince]

Originally posted by Blackdragon:

When I started my Assassin playthrough, I wanted to make an assassin that would be the best at killing. I mean, that's what assassins do - they kill people, that's the common understanding. So I thought, if I'm very good at killing, at least I'll be able to do the Assassin Guild quests.

You are best at killing, not best at other things. So, you'll succeed at killing quests and most likely fail quests with optional objectives.

The guildmaster is pissed, but she will live and so will your character. You can't and will not succeed at everything.

And it turns out, what I needed was 8 Perception instead of 6 Perception. That's it. That's the difference between a successfull mission and a failed mission. No matter how hard you fight, if you don't have 8 Perception you fail the quest.

Because killing people is not a solution to every problem.

Why aren't there any options for fighters? I kill my way to the temple, get my hands on the friggin Guildmaster of the Thieves, the gold is right there, and I can't do anything because not enough Perception.

Is there a better way to describe different abilities? I understand that in the end it's just a number, but in-game your character simply couldn't find the secret exit. Hardly an unrealistic scenario. In real life people succeed and fail because they are slightly smarter, faster, more observant, or intuitive than other people. If we were to measure such things the same way we measure IQ, we'd arrive to different sets of numbers.

One person can avoid a car crash because his reaction is a point higher than someone else's, who hits the brakes too late.

In the next mission, will I need 8 Charisma to succeed? Or maybe 8 Lore? Or should I pour my points into Streetwise? That would make me a better Assassin than training to kill, right?

Again, stick with killing and you'll be a great assassin (which WILL come in handy in the next 2 quests), but you will fail objectives that require different skills.

Look, have you ever failed at something in your life because you weren't good at it? Same here. As long as the game can continue - and it does continue - it's all good. Learn to live with your failures (in the game, I mean).

I've killed 6 people in 2 fights, plus Levir himself which makes 7. After I get back to the Boatmen and report my failure, my SP are still the same as before I started the quest.

We'll look into it. You get nothing for Levir, but you should get SP for the other fights.

[Blackdragon]

I get your point, Vince. But understand too that completely failing storyline quests just because you didn't put 2 attribute points where the developers wanted you to, is not, in my opinion, a satisfactory outcome for an RPG, which by definition should strive to accomodate DIFFERENT roles.

And it's not even something that can be fixed in 1 playthrough. I can raise my skills, but I can do nothing about my attributes.

It's a bit like the 6 Intelligence requirement for the Antidas fight as IG. If you have it, you're gold, if you don't - you're screwed. And again it's the fighting characters that get the shaft, the talkies can always pass some persuasion checks and win.

I understand that in the end it's just a number, but in-game your character simply couldn't find the secret exit. Hardly an unrealistic scenario. In real life people succeed and fail because they are slightly smarter, faster, more observant, or intuitive than other people. If we were to measure such things the same way we measure IQ, we'd arrive to different sets of numbers.

I am sorry, but that's just not the case in my view. The reason the quest is failed is because there was NO WAY to complete it using a fighter character that didn't have 8 perception. In real life, that situation could have other options which you simply haven't bothered to represent in your game. I am not convinced that there was absolutely nothing else we could do or say to Levir that would make him reveal the exit. This is just a restrictive approach, not "realism".

[Alexander]

its a demo maybe that explains the reason why?! ;-)

[urartu]

Oh by the way, I could notice the secret exit(8 PER), but could not do anything about it within provided option and decided to deal with Levir. And the word I gave will bite me in the back when the time is right, probably. (Though I strayed from AG quests and joined to Gaelius' plots)

Maybe, the situation can be dealt with by making a default option where the player makes a deal with Levir and shares the gold between Forty Thieves and Assassin's Guild. Darista won't be happy, still it is something to bolster the guild.

[Vince]

Originally posted by Blackdragon:

I get your point, Vince. But understand too that completely failing storyline quests just because you didn't put 2 attribute points where the developers wanted you to, is not, in my opinion, a satisfactory outcome for an RPG, which by definition should strive to accomodate DIFFERENT roles.

I guess we look at failures differently.

I'm ok with failing something because my character wasn't good enough if the game continues. If the game forces you to have 2 extra points to move forward, it's bad design. If it doesn't, it's all good.

Basically, the quest is designed this way:

- pure fighters fight their way to the temple, but unable to get the gold out
- jacks can avoid some combat, spot the secret way out and have the skills to open it (that's the second challenge there)
- talkers can easily avoid combat and make a deal with Levir

It's a bit like the 6 Intelligence requirement for the Antidas fight as IG. If you have it, you're gold, if you don't - you're screwed.

Your reward for being clever. We'll tone down the difficulty of the "low INT" fight though. It should be a very hard fight, but perhaps it's way too hard now.

I am sorry, but that's just not the case in my view. The reason the quest is failed is because there was NO WAY to complete it using a fighter character that didn't have 8 perception. In real life, that situation could have other options which you simply haven't bothered to represent in your game. I am not convinced that there was absolutely nothing else we could do or say to Levir that would make him reveal the exit. This is just a restrictive approach, not "realism".

Like?

Levir is the boss of the thieves' guild. He can't be threatened or he will lose face and will be replaced. Plus, he's dying (revealed in the thieves' questline), so your threats don't mean much to him anyway. You can only make a deal and the option is there, but it does require some skills.

[SuicideMike]

got a ?just finished demo head to maadoron then went to start page is that it for demo the 1 city?and ty

[urartu]

Demo is one city with two extra locations, one being the mining outpost and the other is bandit camp. You will find every character and faction has a different angle on the game (starting from first city). Things you do in first city will effect your future adventures in second city.

Second city, Maadoran (largest city in world of AoD) is in the Early Access build also named as Extended Demo which contains 55% of the game.