Is crafting overrated ?

[The Chosen Chad]

Since crafting beyond 6 doesnt have a lot of buffs and at this rank you can pretty much do most of the Crafting checks (Library of Sarros in mind) besides the best gear you get at 10 with Sky Metal gear, and most if not the best equipements you can find in the game without crafting are sometimes locked behind trapped crates or simply lost tech like the Bolter, Chopper or the Quantari Sword. Its especially true for dodgers who can simply stick with the Mangudai Armor from the Ordu trader and then get Beglutai's, Bassar's, one of the Enforcer's at the end of Basil's quest or Hamul's armor for free. Also the weapons you get from the Arena's challengers are really good too, still doesnt beat the Dreamweaver, Arbiter or the Bow from the Fletcher you can get right at the start of Maadoran but these are pretty great weapons.

Even for non dodgers, Darius Armor is the best you can find before the power armor, and even Al-Sahir's Armor is pretty great too (much better than the Blue Steel Lorica Segmentada from the Merchant Plaza in my experience), along side the Sword Breaker and the Impenetrable you are pretty much instopable. Sure you may have not 12 APs, but thats the only advantage for crafting imo, getting your own armor with your own mobility.

Lets not also forget that Widowmaker has a maxxed out Sky Metal Shadvar Axe for free too, sure its no Labrys but the THC bonus is far more useful imo. So you can still get most of your best gear without a lot of point in crafting, not to say its completly useless, a ranged character should imo have 8 or 10 crafting just for the Blue Steel/Sky Metal Arrows since they cant really be find in the game.

[skaudus]

Sharpening is also a significant chunk of damage, especially since it scales with STR and crit.

Overall, I'd say anywhere between 6-8 is fine for most runs. Crafting 10 is also valuable for sheer damage numbers alone.

I also like Crafting 10 for those absurd DR builds, if you trade the power armour for skymetal.

[The Chosen Chad]

Exactly why I think 6 crafting is okay for sharpening, you get a +3 damage instead of a +5 with 10. Sure an optimal 10 crafting is better than no crafting, but the investment isnt worth getting when you have all the good gear already laying around.

I have yet to try a DR build tho, I might do that on my next murder hobo run. Sky Metal Imperial Armor + Tower Shield and Spiked Club :)

[skaudus]

Yep, it's fun using it to go toe-to-toe against the Guardian. Feels like much more of a fair fight than using Power Armor.

Going from 6 to 10 is a huge SP investment, but if you're doing a murderhobo run you might not have anything else worthwile to spend points on. I personally don't use alchemy much because berserk potions are too much micromanagement (and only good at 8+ Alchemy), and enemies die too fast for poison to take effect.

Hybrids or ranged characters are a different beast, but for dedicated melee combat characters you're already overpowered enough.

I actually have an unfinished RP run where I only went with found equipment, Daggers, Swords, Throwing, Block and Crit equally distributed, to simulate a Legionary. It kicked ass.

[The Chosen Chad]

Never liked Power Armor that much, sure its super OP and can help you kill the squid god but it feels a bit too powerful especially when Im the only dude around using it. The only crafted Sky Metal armor I crafted and actually used a lot in my dodging build was the Lorica Musculata + Attic Helmet.

I personally prefer to invest in Alchemy, especially for Berserk potions and Neurostims, you also get crazy bombs too that can make fights like Heron gang, the monasteries or the challengers in Gannezar a whole lot more easy to fight and deal with. I feel like Poison is very effective on sword, and daggers, not much else. Bleeding and Posion are a so OP.

Bows imo are the best class especially with high ST and good arrows, super easy to cheese opponents.

So you have no civil skills ? Thats super cool, I tried to do something like that but the early fights in Teron are a slug especially without a steel weapon.

[skaudus]

Depending on how combat-forward your character is, you don't really benefit much from looting Teron. If you want to make a hybrid, then you can reliably get most skills at 4 for free, since you recoup most of the cost.

Crafting 4 is very cheap, especially with training, and it can give you competitive equipment until Maadoran.

Very interesting that you say bows are very strong. The overall consensus is that it's actually the worst class precisely because it requires precious STR, and you can't use shields with them. Of course, this is mostly down to personal preference, so no one's going to fault you. High STR, crit and potions can make for some very satisfying oneshots.

On the other hand, Crossbows are STR-independent, meaning you can set it at 4 and forget about it, investing the points someplace else.

If you want a really snazzy ranged build, I'd recommend going for a glass cannon with high STR, DEX, PER, [Shields 4], [Throwing] up the wazoo, and both crafting and alchemy. You don't get crits, but the passive makes up for it. I think it's the single-most AP-efficient killer in the entire game, especially with Power Armour.

[NOIRE-]

I just finished my sword thief hybird run half an hour ago. I'm 100% sure about this, i will get 8 crafting every single time. Here's why.

While dreamweaver is a godsend for any hybrid build, it's a weird weapon to have. It has zero passive bonus. I choose sword as hybrid because you can be good without investing in CS, just bleed your enemy, and use poison on top of that. I had a blast with my steel khopesh in Teron.
I used to have crafting 8 in maadoran after getting my SP back from the abyss, but this time i tried to convince myself there will be a good sword to my liking dropped from one of the enemy. Spoiler, nope there isn't any.

Bluesteel shamsir from Al Sahir has passive bonus but no thc, it's already hard to hit with such low combat skill. The lion claw, had the biggest passive bonus but again zero thc. The bluesteel handar from the guy in arena before widowmaker, has thc but no passive bonus. At that point i gave up. And as i predicted, my dps jumped after i crafted my own blue steel sword (khopesh and shamsir) with the right stats.

[NOIRE-]

Originally posted by skaudus:

If you want a really snazzy ranged build, I'd recommend going for a glass cannon with high STR, DEX, PER, [Shields 4], [Throwing] up the wazoo, and both crafting and alchemy. You don't get crits, but the passive makes up for it. I think it's the single-most AP-efficient killer in the entire game, especially with Power Armour.

I will try this one skaudus, but only if you try my crossbow assassin max crits training, your throwing build has max alchemy but no CS, well it's the opposite here.

[skaudus]

I've done max crit training builds for daggers, axes and crossbows, and I confirm they were tons of fun! :D

[The Chosen Chad]

Originally posted by skaudus:

Depending on how combat-forward your character is, you don't really benefit much from looting Teron. If you want to make a hybrid, then you can reliably get most skills at 4 for free, since you recoup most of the cost.

Depends if you have 7 Charisma and the guild you choose, the Thieves get the most bonus out of Teron, then the Boatmen, the other guilds are lacking civic trainers.

Crafting 4 is very cheap, especially with training, and it can give you competitive equipment until Maadoran.

Yup and you can get it to 4 with the right build and planning, just need 10 Daratan rep which can be hard with 4 charisma (even when you are a Liegeman), you either need to be an Assassin, Loremaster or Preator.

Very interesting that you say bows are very strong. The overall consensus is that it's actually the worst class precisely because it requires precious STR, and you can't use shields with them. Of course, this is mostly down to personal preference, so no one's going to fault you. High STR, crit and potions can make for some very satisfying oneshots.

In my experience, the Old Faithful + Blue Steel + Poison arrows and a very good crit rating did wonders in many fights. I had a very good alchemy skill too so liquid fires and bombs made some fights a cakewalk.
IIRC I had like 8/10/4/7/7/4 + Loremaster background then went with the Thieves Guild and betrayed them for Gaelius a +2 STR after stealing the Jar.
The big + from Bows is that they can penetrate more easily heavy armor and shields with the adequate strength, crit and bow skill.

Edit : I should add that Old Faithful is useful until you get the proper Longbow with good passive bonus and crit.

On the other hand, Crossbows are STR-independent, meaning you can set it at 4 and forget about it, investing the points someplace else.

I have yet to try a dedicated Crossbow build with all the crit boost from the Boatmen :)
Im doing a spear build who gets all the crit checks and impaling his targets and poor dudes on the way. It is pretty fun but very frustrating against long ranged characters, especially bow user who cripple me everytime.

If you want a really snazzy ranged build, I'd recommend going for a glass cannon with high STR, DEX, PER, [Shields 4], [Throwing] up the wazoo, and both crafting and alchemy. You don't get crits, but the passive makes up for it. I think it's the single-most AP-efficient killer in the entire game, especially with Power Armour.

I might try that, but Im already losing my sanity on how to do a no defense character with max out crit, spear and axe skills with the Boatmen. One on one it works wonders I just impale and chop them with an axe. With groups I have kite and tank some damages from bows and arrows, which is infernal.

[The Chosen Chad]

Originally posted by NOIRE-:

I tried to convince myself there will be a good sword to my liking dropped from one of the enemy. Spoiler, nope there isn't any.

IIRC isnt there a blue steel Handar in Dead River pratically fully upgraded ?

[NOIRE-]

Originally posted by The Chosen Chad:

Originally posted by NOIRE-:

I tried to convince myself there will be a good sword to my liking dropped from one of the enemy. Spoiler, nope there isn't any.

IIRC isnt there a blue steel Handar in Dead River pratically fully upgraded ?

You're right, it has the right stats. I was focus on getting either a good shamsir or khopesh for the extra passive%. It's still worth to get 8 crafting in Maadoran, you have plenty of SP to spend even on a completionist run.