What's So Bad About Master Levels?

[Francisè von Spitroast]

Doom fans seem to dismiss the Master Levels but I'm really not sure why. I'm going through them for my second time (on UV) and they're my favourite maps out of all of original games outside of Ultimate DOOM and DOOM 64. Certainly better than DOOM II as they're a good mix of challenging and unique without becoming overly gimmicky so like as with a lot of DOOM II. Just my opinion of course but I'm surprised to see so many seem to outright hate them.

[Zelligaryan]

The few good master levels are pretty mediocre even for '95 standards. It should never have been a commercial product

[Francisè von Spitroast]

Originally posted by quaker2:

The few good master levels are pretty mediocre even for '95 standards. It should never have been a commercial product

But worse than TNT?

[Zelligaryan]

Originally posted by Randy the Seaman:

Originally posted by quaker2:

The few good master levels are pretty mediocre even for '95 standards. It should never have been a commercial product

But worse than TNT?

TNT easily outshines it

[Shallex]

Originally posted by Randy the Seaman:

Originally posted by quaker2:

The few good master levels are pretty mediocre even for '95 standards. It should never have been a commercial product

But worse than TNT?

tnt is one of the best dood

[Ranger Sequoia]

Tnt is boring as hell. Go for plutonia instead.

[Francisè von Spitroast]

Originally posted by JumpJet:

Tnt is boring as hell. Go for plutonia instead.

I've finished them all before. I enjoy TNT, particularly when pistol-starting, but it's nothing special. I prefer every other official DOOM II campaign available.

[LiL blade]

Originally posted by Randy the Seaman:

Originally posted by JumpJet:

Tnt is boring as hell. Go for plutonia instead.

I've finished them all before. I enjoy TNT, particularly when pistol-starting, but it's nothing special. I prefer every other official DOOM II campaign available.

the reason why i like tnt is that some levels go for a more realistic setting like shipping and respawning

[Dawido]

Originally posted by Randy the Seaman:

Doom fans seem to dismiss the Master Levels but I'm really not sure why. I'm going through them for my second time (on UV) and they're my favourite maps out of all of original games outside of Ultimate DOOM and DOOM 64. Certainly better than DOOM II as they're a good mix of challenging and unique without becoming overly gimmicky so like as with a lot of DOOM II. Just my opinion of course but I'm surprised to see so many seem to outright hate them.

They s0cks.
The level design looks like would be made by 8-years old in 10 minutes, some of them can't be beated without looking at youtube tutorials, and they don't even add nothing new and challenging to the game

[Francisè von Spitroast]

Originally posted by Dewidox08:

Originally posted by Randy the Seaman:

Doom fans seem to dismiss the Master Levels but I'm really not sure why. I'm going through them for my second time (on UV) and they're my favourite maps out of all of original games outside of Ultimate DOOM and DOOM 64. Certainly better than DOOM II as they're a good mix of challenging and unique without becoming overly gimmicky so like as with a lot of DOOM II. Just my opinion of course but I'm surprised to see so many seem to outright hate them.

They s0cks.
The level design looks like would be made by 8-years old in 10 minutes, some of them can't be beated without looking at youtube tutorials, and they don't even add nothing new and challenging to the game

I've not had any trouble with figuring out how to beat them, except with that horrendous bossfight with the Icon of Sin.

[Shallex]

Originally posted by Randy the Seaman:

Originally posted by Dewidox08:

They s0cks.
The level design looks like would be made by 8-years old in 10 minutes, some of them can't be beated without looking at youtube tutorials, and they don't even add nothing new and challenging to the game

I've not had any trouble with figuring out how to beat them, except with that horrendous bossfight with the Icon of Sin.

what about that one level where you have to walk across an invisible 1 pixel edge on a wall to get to the exit with no indication whatsoever that that's the solution unless for some reason you zoom in on the automap really far and notice that anomaly in the geometry or somehow find it accidentally

that was the worst

[Francisè von Spitroast]

Originally posted by Shallex:

Originally posted by Randy the Seaman:

I've not had any trouble with figuring out how to beat them, except with that horrendous bossfight with the Icon of Sin.

what about that one level where you have to walk across an invisible 1 pixel edge on a wall to get to the exit with no indication whatsoever that that's the solution unless for some reason you zoom in on the automap really far and notice that anomaly in the geometry or somehow find it accidentally

that was the worst

I don't remember that. Perhaps some of its worst moments come near the end. I've only recently played 17 of its 21 levels as I decided to do DOOM II and NRFTL.

[Shallex]

Originally posted by Randy the Seaman:

Originally posted by Shallex:

what about that one level where you have to walk across an invisible 1 pixel edge on a wall to get to the exit with no indication whatsoever that that's the solution unless for some reason you zoom in on the automap really far and notice that anomaly in the geometry or somehow find it accidentally

that was the worst

I don't remember that. Perhaps some of its worst moments come near the end. I've only recently played 17 of its 21 levels as I decided to do DOOM II and NRFTL.

it's level 18, vesperas

[Francisè von Spitroast]

Originally posted by Shallex:

Originally posted by Randy the Seaman:

I don't remember that. Perhaps some of its worst moments come near the end. I've only recently played 17 of its 21 levels as I decided to do DOOM II and NRFTL.

it's level 18, vesperas

Lol, I just missed out on it. I'll get back to it eventually.

[Ghost Robertson]

The master levels were a little more challenging than the standard campaigns so that maybe why people didn't like them much.

Still, The master levels weren't as bad as some of the maps i downloaded back in the day.

Doom 1 & 2 are still my favourite compared to doom 2016 and eternal, But i still play the odd game from the 90's that most people have moved on since then.

Edit---

Oh and when i got an editor for doom 2 i put a million cyber demons in level one, But once you saw them and backed off they started shooting at each other and there would be almost none left to fight in the end.

I thought it would be challenging but it turned out to be easy.

[DoomerYuri]

Originally posted by Randy the Seaman:

Doom fans seem to dismiss the Master Levels but I'm really not sure why. I'm going through them for my second time (on UV) and they're my favourite maps out of all of original games outside of Ultimate DOOM and DOOM 64. Certainly better than DOOM II as they're a good mix of challenging and unique without becoming overly gimmicky so like as with a lot of DOOM II. Just my opinion of course but I'm surprised to see so many seem to outright hate them.

The problem with The Master Levels is that it's a mixed bag, Some of them are good, Some are bad and the mediocre ones seems like good Deathmatch maps.

Another problem is The Master Levels have no grand theme to them, they are random standalone levels made by different authors and that already will throw a lot of people off, compared to Doom 1 and 2 consistent themes throughout both games, For example in Doom 2, you start in a Techbase, then City levels and lastly Hell.

That said The Master Levels got a list of good/great levels that still stands the test of time imo, which are:
1- Trapped On Titan.
2- Black Tower.
3- Bloodsea Keep.
4- The Express Elevator To Hell.
5- Bad Dream.
6- Virgil's Lead: 3rd Canto of INFERNO.
7- Minos' Judgement: 4th Canto of INFERNO.
8- Nessus: 5th Canto of INFERNO.
9- Geryon: 6th Canto of INFERNO.
10- Vesperas: 7th Canto of INFERNO.

Then you got a map like Attack, which is a good Deathmatch map but very mediocre single player map.