Lightning upgrade 3 way too OP?...only way to top of the leaderboard?

[RAMBO]

Especially combined with target marker u1....perhaps could do with a nerf BEFORE leaderboards reset on Jan 24th.

[Acropolis]

It is op, but nerfing it before reset will make those existing records unbeatable, which is unfair to newcomers

[RAMBO]

Originally posted by Acropolis:

It is op, but nerfing it before reset will make those existing records unbeatable, which is unfair to newcomers

Well I meant as in not AFTER the reset. Basically at the same time as the reset is fine as well.

I'm not even going to bother attempting to set WR's till after the reset and if its not nerfed I suppose have no choice but to go with standard meta of lightning, target marker, slow and electron launcher ....very restrictive having such an OP tower especially mixed with the scoring system NECESSITATING/FORCING early path kills plus the 120 wave hard cap meaning you dont need to set up to survive as long as possible as wave 120 is maybe far too easy to get to. If there has to be a hard cap maybe it could be wave 200+.
Now that this meta has been discovered if its not changed it might end up a bit of a joke as it may just be a bunch of players at the top of the leader board that use almost identical strategy (because of the replay system making inventive/creative strategies too easy to s̶t̶e̶a̶l̶ copy).

This game has so much potential if a few changes can be made.

[Acropolis]

It has already been nerfed in the testing version and will be applied on next release when leaderboard also resets.

There is always a process for players to find the meta. The current meta may or may not be the best. People thought Network was OP, and was the meta of survival. Before my attempts on the first two maps, the top records were all Network builds.

Even if the meta has been found, people still view the same build differently and add their own twist to it. They watch my replay and copy my method. I personally don't dislike this. When I watch those replays of those people who were mimicing me, I always learn something that I didn't know or overlooked. The process of learning from each other helps me reach my own limit.

[RAMBO]

Originally posted by Acropolis:

They watch my replay and copy my method. I personally don't dislike this. When I watch those replays of those people who were mimicing me, I always learn something that I didn't know or overlooked. The process of learning from each other helps me reach my own limit.

The problem is because of the system if you want to attempt a WR people have no choice but to copy the method of the top player as there are no other viable strategies. That is my point. I never believed any of the other previous 'metas' were actually OP or maybe even 'the best' but due to the early scoring bonus no other tower setup can do high enough damage early on in the path as Lightning u3 (especially with target marker) it is basically essential to use them. But I could be wrong but due to how weak most of the towers are i doubt it.

Its fine tho. Like i say if its not changed i'll just use the OP strategy to attempt WR's on each map. If thats how it has to be then so be it. There can still be some differences anyway because of the RNG which can give small variations in score so maybe that will have to do.

We can spend over 5 hours and maybe get a few hundred more points than the other guy and then he can do the same using pretty much the exact same strategy...ah well maybe thats how it has to be. Im actually not sure of a solution.

Perhaps the introduction of new enemy types that take reduced damage from lightning towers and target markers to force a more varied playstyle.

[Acropolis]

It is impossible not to have one single best method because there is only one #1 spot in the leaderboard. In one version there is only one set of rules and one pool of towers. The solutions will always converge to one if the target is to get the highest score.

However, is getting WR the only objective to play the game? No.

For the survival mode, the game defines beating a map by passing wave 30 and you will get the survivor achievement. Some people might want to actually complete the map by passing wave 120 and there are different ways to do so. No one forces anyone to really spawn kill the axons unless they want to get the highest possible score.

Outside the survival mode there are campaign, quickplay and even pvp in the next release.

I really don't think Arc Reactor and Target markers limit how people play the game. It's more like people being trapped in the mindset that they must take the best loadout into the level and get the top spot in the leaderboard and forgot that they can enjoy the game in different ways.

People still use Mass Driver U3 and build a map wide straight road to make the beam the longest. People build a spiral maze that hoverjets can pass straight through and still beat the level. Someone even used Inertia Blaster which I considered a totally rubbish tower to beat Platforms, that was really impressive to me.

[Naphal]

Speaking as someone who tried a lot of different approaches with Lightning U3 - Yes id argue its way too overpowered - but so are other towers. Frankly speaking, U1 for example should be way more efficient if put into a spot where only 2-4 enemies are (like at the end of a maze), but in practice, even there U3 deals waymore damage, for only 25% more power cost. Thats partly due to how the damage scales - if you increase the base damage a lot, be it by passives or by other towers like ComLink, roughly the 3rd bounce will deal so much damage that even all the bounces from U1 combined cant compete if there are 2 enemies in range.

I really need to second the oppinion of my predecessor, because in a somewhat convoluted balance problem like this game( with a lot of different towers and approaches which technically cannot be 100% balanced for EVERY purpose ( endless vs. single missions or even waves in campaign for example) you got to live with certain ... nudges in a certain direction - and that will mainly be cost efficient damage scaling, through whatever way you achieve it.

Although, if i personally were the person responsible for balance patches, even for single player id tune down Lightning U3 by a lot. I recently started replaying the campaign on hard and steamrolled every single mission on the first try by going greedy and getting as many credit generators as possible on round1 by adding power generators adjacent, and using Lightning U3 on a blocker with the corresponding talent as my main dps.