[Feedback, SPOILERS] The least enjoyable parts

[HighLanderPony]

It's time for a different kind of thread.

Here are some parts or elements that I'd rather skip or avoid on a replay than do them again.

More feedback. I'll just mention these, it might help. No positives here, I already mentioned those elsewhere.
I might miss some, it happens.

General

- Obelisk levels. The speedrun mode made them shorter which is nice but I'd still rather do a "normal" level. After the first time they aren't that interesting
- All of world 7. I call it the gimmick world. Much pain and frustration. I get it, you wanted to show off setpieces and what's possible but maybe you went a lil' too dense with the gimmicks in this one. More details below

World 1

- Those crawling shell like(?), gray enemies that release spikes are more annoying than they'd seem at first. You meet them on a ship first
- The midboss on 1.2 feels a lil' too basic. It has 1 attack and dies quick. Looks cool though!

World 2

- The crows are insane. They're probably one of the hardest enemies to deal with in the entire game. Many people probably quit because of getting launched into pits by them. Perhaps they come too early in the game for how tough they can be to deal with. Perhaps they could use better telegraphing that they're coming, I'm not sure. I like that you concealed them though
- The spitting plants could use an HP nerf. It's annoying to cut through multiples of them
- The underwater segment with the pufferfish went on for a little too long
- On epic+, the crows/ravens before Kipak combined with the 2 torches are crazy tough. It doesn't help that you can't kill all the birds without triggering the fight, and the camera pan can also mess with you trying to deal with the birds

World 3

- 3-1 is a pretty big spike in difficulty. It gets hectic fast, with death pits all over and enemies swooping in preemptively to knock you into them
- 3-2 might be a tad too long and the horde of those flying crescent shooting enemies can get overbearing. The branching path can also be annoying to backtrack on if you want to check the whole level out
- 3-4 the last segment from the last checkpoint till the end is pretty long, and dying to a pit there sucks. Consider putting a checkpoint somewhere in between the currently last checkpoint and the end. (I'm not necessarily saying do it in this game right now but maybe reconsider the distance between checkpoints for similar segments in future projects.)
- 3-5 it could be clearer when the fists can hurt you on contact and when they can't

World 4

- Overall: Huge spike in difficulty. This is the first time I got stuck. Redoing the more painful parts was frustrating. I see a big player number falloff here, too. Many complaints were made about this one as well. It seems like the first time the training wheels are taken off and it shows. It could be gentler
- Overall #2: Those swamp monsters that throw bones are insanely durable and hard to jump over while wading through the mud. My best bet is usually to get hit by them then pass through them with i-frames. I doubt that's the gameplay you want to encourage. Consider lowering their HP
- 4-1 and on, there may be too many small bugs. It's easy to bump into them and it can be annoying to clear them because sometimes it seems you'd hit them but they wouldn't get destroyed. This happens often VS smaller enemies and airborne ones, too
- 4-2 having no checkpoint and then facing 2 of those blue sliding enemies in a row can be a pain. Especially, when you got to repeat the process of opening all those cages and getting the super form orb (if you're going for those or have OCD)
- 4-3 and on, the small frogs and big frogs take too long to explode and the gases linger for too long, tanking the pace a lil' more than I would've liked
- 4-4 apart from the obvious pain from the vines, the fish ambushes can be so strict that they promote a sort of boring/annoying "wait them out" gameplay. Having to stop for a bit sometimes is fine, but maybe it was overdone here
- 4-5 the leadup to the boss can be long if you need to repeat it.
→ The boss might have too much HP
→ The enemies might spawn too frequently
→ The one locust(?) like enemy the boss sends out along the ground can be really annoying to deal with, it feels like its hurtbox is really tiny and specific
→ I like the puzzle element of getting rid of the fly nest but not all heroes can reliably do it, potentially turning it into a trolly "gotcha" moment. Finding out on the very last level of the world that you "brought the wrong hero" can suck

World 5

- Overall: The small squids that shoot might shoot too often. It's annoying to deal with several, even if you wait out their shots
- Overall #2: The squid soldiers and mages don't seem to have consistent rules for when they shield themselves. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Sometimes you oneshot them even through their shield, sometimes you don't. It feels a little janky
- Overall #3: The squid soldiers' attack (axe swing) can feel like it hit you unjustly, like they snapped on to you with their hitboxes
- Overall #4: The minotaurs swinging the ball and chain can be a chore to deal with. They defend against every kind of attack I tried while they're swinging their ball. Even ranged attacks, even stuff like fire attacks. This makes them annoying, all you can do is wait for them to swing at you and then maybe you can squeeze 2 hits in, but most often only 1, and it needs to be a fast attack. Consider giving us more ways to deal with them and make the encounters less about waiting for them. I vaguely recall Bubo working on them but that's so specific
- 5-5 the boss hitting you with the smoke it dusts up after a jump feels annoying and it's barely noticeable, too. I ended up dead several times, confused about what killed me.
→ His attacks could be a little slower because right now it's hard to tell if he's going to go for the swing or the throw, so the gameplay is reduced to "just dodge away in anticipaton rather than on reaction so you can avoid both" instead of "guess right and feel good about it". Or trade HP with him and smack him to death. It works better than one might think.
→ It also feels bad when you break his armor but he already has his axe thrown out at you and then you can't damage him because you need to avoid the returning axe

[HighLanderPony]

Continued from part 1:

World 6

- 6-2 consider lowering the HP of the scorpion you're forced to fight to progress. Sometimes, it could lock me against the wall and I just had to run through it, taking hits because it wouldn't die before it cornered me. It felt inelegant
→ Consider lowering the amount of small snakes on the level. It's a cute novelty but it can get cumbersome to wade through them. Azaes with his dash doesn't care though and that part is cool, lol
- 6-3 it's unclear how the orbs carried by the bugs affect the snake. I just kill as many as I can and hope for the best but I don't really see the impact of me doing so. This can give the section a haphazard feeling
- 6-4 consider putting a checkpoint somewhere along the way. Maybe place it tilted, implanted in the flesh or something... you know, the big snake swallowed a checkpoint crsytal. That would be cool!
→ The bugs released from the cocoons can be inconsistent to hit, and it seems like their spawn pattern is random, resulting in many deaths from them knocking you into pits
→ Some heroes struggle to go fast enough because they've troubles clearing or skipping obstacles
→ Another big thing is with the second big jumping "flea" enemy in the level; it is totally skippable but that's hard to notice unless you try, especially because the first one screen locks you. Maybe that difference could be conveyed better
- 6-5 oh boy, this boss is probably the toughest for where it's placed in the game. It's a nice endurance fight but perhaps it could be toned down a bit. Less HP, or less damage from some lightning attacks, or making it play less safe could result in beating him being less painful with fewer retries
→ Sometimes he can spend 40-60 seconds doing nothing but jumping around on the edges of the arena and shooting the 5-way(?) orbs. Even if he was weaker, we'd still feel the sting of how tough he is but it wouldn't block our progress for as long as it does now
→ The "gotcha" death explosion that you can't kill him through – and you must stay away from – can kill you, robbing you of a win, and that can also feel pretty unfair, especially because of how long the fight takes. I like the general idea of it though, I wouldn't just take it out

World 7

- Overall: Oh boy, where do I start? This place is crazy AND long. Details below
- 7-1 vertical auto scrolling AND new flying enemies AND molotov throwing high knockback jerks AND baby cthulhu cherubs that are worse than medusa heads AND death pits? This stage wastes no time laying down the pain
→ Perhaps the part after the checkpoint but before the "elevator" could be a bit shorter and tamer
→ And the baby cthulhu patterns over the death pits could be more forgiving
→ The elevator part could also be a bit shorter (even when going for the secrets)
- 7-2 this one's probably the worst offender when it comes to "annoying gimmicks you'd never want to do again". The cart part is fine, except for the final bit where you got to jump out of the cart to safety. To this day, after playing the game for over 55 hours and beating it several times, I've no solid idea of how to consistently jump out of it so I make it over the gap. My best guess was "hold jump" but even that failed me sometimes. Consider making it automatic, it's not worth the pain to keep it manual. Or explain it. Or something
→ After that, the digging part takes pretty long, and the angles you can get to the digging enemies is sort of awkward. I was disappointed that you couldn't herd one of those enemies over to the last auto scrolling part to help with the digging
→ Speaking of the final digging part, I found only one way to get through it, either playing solo or 2 player; dig along the left side, only destroying the 2 leftmost columns, alternating between them; duck, 2 hits, move over, turn around, duck, 2 hits. I got killed every other way I tried to do it and I doubt that's what you wanted from that part. I thought it'd be more like in Super Mario Bros 2 (the Doki Doki one), but nope. Maybe it's different with more players. But overall, it feels a tad slow to clear all those blocks
- 7-3 other than the trial and error nature of the level resulting in runbacks, I can't pinpoint many issues. Maybe that the wind effect isn't really clear. You just notice yourself walking slower/faster at times. It can result in some unfair feeling deaths or missed platforms and collectibles
- 7-4 oh boy, the elephant in the room. The first time my coop buddy saw the lightning gimmick here he groaned. And then he got knocked down into a pit by a vulture and he groaned. And then he saw the lantern gimmick in the dark and he groaned again. And then he saw the hitboxes of the vulture boss's wings and the speed and homing nature of its attacks AND cthulhu babies spawning on top of all that and he groaned again
→ We didn't even get to the final twist with the collapsing floor which I'm sure would've only added to the frustation. We opted to skip the level instead (thankfully we played on a file I cleared prior to this). I think that paints a good picture of how many might feel about this level
- 7-5 consider removing the enemies all together, except for the flying chests. Then it'd feel like a nice bonus round, especially after all the pain before it
- 7-6 consider onboarding the idea of "this guy can destroy all these platforms so watch out" before exposing the player to it for real. Currently, the way things are set up, you're guaranteed to die at least once, even if you're careful and vigilant
→ Consider removing the subweapon chests; they're more of a bait and a red herring than anything, since if you stop moving, you die to the disappearing platforms, and the damage you can deal with the weapons is negligible anyway

World 8

- Overall: Huge enemy density and many "gotcha" moments in this one. Perhaps those could be toned down a tad
- Overall #2: Consider giving a startup to some enemy attacks, notably the birds firing sonic booms, the stone heads spitting fireballs, and the lava fish spitting fire orbs like crazy
- Overall #3: Destroying the homing stone spike attack of those smaller golems can feel inconsistent, like I'm hitting through them. Also, they sometimes just... walk into me, not respecting my boundaries. That feels cheap
- Overall #4: The warlocks that curse you with a count down nuke can sometimes still hit you even if you destroyed them, as the curse takes about a second to be lifted, before which the curse can still run out of time and hit you. This feels unfair
- Overall #5: The lava pits feel sticky once you fall into them. It can be really annoying and feel janky to try and jump out of them, especially when you get hit by other stuff in between (e.g. during the boss fight). Consider making the pits shallower or easier to jump out of
- 8-1 after you passed all the pillars that move up and down, there are 3 smaller pillars and a bird that comes in and fires at you. This can feel really cheap the first time around because if you aren't expecting it, you'll jump in a way that you'll likely get hit and plummet to your death. Another one of these happens on the way up on the moving platforms and small rock platforms as well
- 8-2 too many lava fish. That's mostly it. The sections with the pits and lava fish are nigh impossible to navigate with some heroes without getting hit
- 8-3 oh man, it's stalactite city. I wouldn't mind that if they all worked the same way but they don't. Most of them fall after you pass under them, but about 3 of them fall before you pass under them, forcing you to bait them to fall first. If they worked consistently always the same way, or you could tell the 2 types apart I'd have no issues with this
→ The lava "vehicle" part can get annoying, especially the bit where there's a shooting stone head AND a stone beyblade monster AND the lava pillars coming at you all at once, some of it coming from off screen. I almost never do that part hitless
- 8-4 I see the patch replaced the big golems with many small enemy spawns. This is cool but maybe you overdid it with the density a bit
→ There's a part with a homing spike golem on the other side of a gap. The only way I could clear this part is by waiting for the golem to fall to its death. This felt tedious
- 8-5 other than getting stuck in the lava often resulting in a slippery slope death there isn't much to complain about here
→ I wish the fireballs shot from the small mouth had more of a telegraph and startup animation
→ I wish the boss had a slightly smaller/lower hitbox above it when switching sides

World 9

- Overall: Consider giving the player a tad more time between the zombies shambling and them transitioning into full charge mode
- Overall #2: Consider lowering the HP of the red skulls
- Overall #3: On epic+, consider slowing the skeleton archer down a smidge OR making it reload after fewer shots fired
- Overall #4: Consider lowering the HP of the skeleton knight. It can be too much of a roadblock as it is, especially since the best way to hit it is after baiting its attacks or as it jumps over you which both require waiting already
- Overall #5: Consider making the gargoyles play "less safe". Currently, they can waste a lot of your time just by shooting at you or coming at you in ways you can't punish, dragging fights out
- Overall #6: Consider lowering the HP of those abomination enemies that roll or throw cleavers OR increase their move animation startup or make their telegraphs more obvious. They're a pain to deal with without Sais, and while she works great here, defeating them with the others feels more like spray and praying than a nice calculated, challenging fight
- 9-1 on epic+, consider giving us another food chest before the one after the vertical spiky section followed by the 3-4 flying skulls
→ Consider placing the blue flying skulls that come at you before the vertical spiky part – on the moving platforms over the death pit – in a bit of a less punishing way
→ Consider placing the blue skulls that come while you're fending off the skeleton archers from platforms above in a less punishing way, especially for the 2nd archer
- 9-2 consider making the saw hitboxes a bit more lenient or making their appearence through the floor less sudden
→ Consider outright removing that blue skull that comes at you as you jump off a bat-platform and would go for the crate with the fish item in it
- 9-3 consider reducing the damage you take from spirits and spikes or crushers to a max of 2 (even on epic+)
→ Consider removing the hitbox from the side of spikes. Getting hit by the parts that aren't spiky feels lame. Sonic did it right
→ Consider placing the red skull on the left side of the checkpoint in a way that you won't aggro it once you respawn at the checkpoint
→ Consider slowing the series of crushers down after a gargoyle; as Crantor, even with full upgrades, I can barely make it over that section with close to perfect timing. The first time I got there I didn't have a speed, stamina meter, or dodge distance bonus and I just couldn't make it through. I had to start the world over. It was very painful and disheartening. You can't expect the player to know in advance what upgrades will be needed. Having to find out that way feels cheap, especially when it means restarting an already tough world. If the speed buff from the patch solved this issue, disregard this
- 9-5 consider giving the player more time to react to the red or green skulls being spawned by the boss
→ Consider slowing down the time it takes for a hand to grab a player
→ Consider shortening the attack range of the green skeleton occasionally spawned by the boss or slowing its attack speed
→ Consider making the laser projectile fired from the left bone hand a little shorter.
→ Consider lowering the damage of the blue beam that travels laterally
→ Consider putting a merchant in between the bonfire and the setpiece of the sky going crazy

World 10

- Overall: Consider lowering the HP of the more durable moray like enemies that dash along the ground. The HP of the ones that can only shoot down is fine, but the ones that shoot up or don't shoot at all can have so much HP that it's nigh impossible to damage them in melee without getting hit
- Overall #2: Consider slowing down those merman that shoot orbs then flee. Or make them easier to catch. One of the most annoying enemies in the game
- 10-1 the last segment with the many fish guard enemies with the pikes and the laterally moving platforms feels impossible to do hitless. You can cheese it by damage boosting but the whole thing just feels inelegant and I doubt that's what you're going for
- 10-4 I'm not sure if the patch did this or not but the big blob enemies seem to have i-frames when they split now. This can make getting hit by them feel cheap, as your weapon just phases through the smaller blobs sometime
→ Consider lowering the HP of the green slime boss, as it's possible to reach it with such little damage output if you upgraded in a certain way that you literally can't kill it in time, resulting in an eventual world reset which is really frustrating
→ Consider putting a checkpoint right before the slime boss – near the merchant even – for smoother retries if you did happen to get there with a lacking build
- 10-5 consider making the blue-yellow orbs occasionally spawned by the boss disappear after less time
→ On epic+, consider lowering the HP of phase 2
- 10-6 consider lowering the frequency at which the boss can use its red and blue vortex attacks. Neither of these allow you to damage the boss without limited items and when it spams these back to back, it can get really tiring and it draws out the fight like crazy
→ Consider giving the player more time to react to the OHKO attack of the boss. Crantor simply can't make it to safety from a certain distance from the platforms without certain upgrades which is really frustrating. Maybe the speed buff from the patch fixed this, in which case disregard this
→ Consider making the OHKO beam of the boss linger less. I got hit by it sometimes even when it felt like it already dissipated enough
→ Consider stopping the boss from using attacks till you returned to it all the way from the platforms after it had done an OHKO attack; it can feel cheap to get hit by some of the vortex beams or a spike from underground when you're making your way back to the boss and it isn't even on the screen for a proper visual telegraph (the audial cues can still work but it just feels off)
→ Consider putting a merchant before the boss. Not in the arena itself but maybe before it, or you could get to the boss from a cave outside

World 11 (11-1)

- Consider making the intro cutscene (the zoom-in) skippable
- The small fly like enemies that come from the nests can feel inconsistent to hit
- Consider slowing the 3 platforms down at the part after the "side switching" enemy and the "Venom" enemy, the platfroms that are below each other. This is easily the scariest part of the entire game and can single handedly result in multiple game overs. I get it, it's the final bit but it clashes with the overall feel of the level which is otherwise "dread inducing but pretty tame"
→ Consider making that "Venom" enemy right after going up from the triple platforms of doom trigger only when the player is higher up on those platforms. Currently, it can feel cheap to have an enemy kamikaze rush you while you're dealing with the nerves and all these crazy platforms. Especially, since it almost comes from off screen. If it came later, once you could already see it and you were safer higher up on the platforms it'd feel better
→ Consider lowering the HP of Chaos #1; it felt good on speedrun mode, it felt too much and slow on epic. Somewhere in between should do it. Yes, I did kill every monster on the level to reduce its HP. It was still too tanky
→ Consider putting a checkpoint after beating Chaos #1; the fight isn't that tough and repeating it to attempt Chaos #2 again can become a chore
→ Consider giving the player more time to react to Chaos #2's desperation attack – the one where he gives you a safe zone and then goes all pink with 1 eye and fists and blows everything up. Getting hit by it is lame, dodging it is hype, there's little to no upside to catching the player in it because they were a little slow to react

Whew, that's all!

[GuineaPrince]

Funny enough despite ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and moaning my entire way through the hard difficulty, there's only a few parts I agree with as being more unfair.

The skeleton archers being hyper aggressive, and the world 8 golem projectiles tracking better than a guided missile. I don't mind the projectile nor that it tracks you, but it probably doesn't need to turn on a dime to follow you forever if you dodge it. With as many golems as there are, you've already got plenty of projectiles to break or dodge.

World 2 and World 4 bosses especially having a lot of Stuff you have to go through before facing them, but at least Kipak has a checkpoint before his fight. Having to slowly trigger birds before each rematch with Kipak is annoying, but the world 4 boss is extra frustrating having to do a whole mini-stage each attempt. And the world 4 boss itself definitely ranges from tricky to frustrating depending on whether or not you brought a character or subweapon that can eliminate the fly nest.

Minecart segments, ducking under spiked rollers can be tricky since you can seemingly still get a hit if your character sprite is clear from the sprites, but the minecart sprite isn't. Annoying in itself, but the stun from damage makes certain jumps more deadly.

As far as World 11, I'll never stop enjoying the mega zoom in :p My only wish would be that a certain vertical platform right before a checkpoint go a little lower, as it can be cruel to survive a sequence of tense platforming only to misjudge how far down a slow-moving platform will move.


Most the rest were things that I found could be frustrating, but otherwise can be adjusted to. But while it's not exactly difficulty related, dolphin sequences definitely need hold to fire instead of tap to fire cuz my wrists struggle to hold off repetitive stress injury during them.

[Tarnus [Abathor]]

Thank you all for your thorough and constructive feedback! We’re thrilled that you've spent so much time exploring the world of Abathor and understand that some sections presented challenges or frustrations. Feedback like yours helps us refine the game experience for current and future players. We’re committed to addressing several of the key pain points you've identified and will work to balance out the experience more, both in upcoming updates and potential sequels if the game continues to perform well.

World 4 Difficulty Spike: We recognize that many players struggle with the sudden increase in difficulty starting in World 4. The combination of tough enemies, such as the durable swamp monsters, and the overall lack of checkpoints creates a frustrating experience for many. In a future patch, we’ll explore rebalancing enemy health (particularly the swamp monsters and frogs) and adding strategic checkpoints to smooth out the pacing and reduce repetition in difficult segments.

World 7 Gimmick Overload: The intense difficulty spike and density of gimmicks in World 7 has been a common point of frustration. We agree that this area may be too packed with complex mechanics and enemies, leading to a trial-and-error experience that can be overwhelming.

Boss Fights & Enemy Telegraphs: Many of you pointed out specific bosses and enemies that feel unfair due to unclear telegraphs or excessive HP. Notable mentions include the Minotaur in World 5, the Scorpion in World 6, and several bosses like 10-6 with its OHKO attack. We’re aiming to adjust enemy and boss telegraphs, making their attacks easier to read and respond to. Boss fights should feel challenging, but not due to unpredictability or excessive HP, so expect changes in this area to promote a more skill-based experience.

We're grateful for your passion, we look forward to making the world of Abathor even more enjoyable for all.

[HighLanderPony]

Originally posted by J. Garay Abathor:

Thank you all for your thorough and constructive feedback! We’re thrilled that you've spent so much time exploring the world of Abathor and understand that some sections presented challenges or frustrations. Feedback like yours helps us refine the game experience for current and future players. We’re committed to addressing several of the key pain points you've identified and will work to balance out the experience more, both in upcoming updates and potential sequels if the game continues to perform well.

World 4 Difficulty Spike: We recognize that many players struggle with the sudden increase in difficulty starting in World 4. The combination of tough enemies, such as the durable swamp monsters, and the overall lack of checkpoints creates a frustrating experience for many. In a future patch, we’ll explore rebalancing enemy health (particularly the swamp monsters and frogs) and adding strategic checkpoints to smooth out the pacing and reduce repetition in difficult segments.

World 7 Gimmick Overload: The intense difficulty spike and density of gimmicks in World 7 has been a common point of frustration. We agree that this area may be too packed with complex mechanics and enemies, leading to a trial-and-error experience that can be overwhelming.

Boss Fights & Enemy Telegraphs: Many of you pointed out specific bosses and enemies that feel unfair due to unclear telegraphs or excessive HP. Notable mentions include the Minotaur in World 5, the Scorpion in World 6, and several bosses like 10-6 with its OHKO attack. We’re aiming to adjust enemy and boss telegraphs, making their attacks easier to read and respond to. Boss fights should feel challenging, but not due to unpredictability or excessive HP, so expect changes in this area to promote a more skill-based experience.

We're grateful for your passion, we look forward to making the world of Abathor even more enjoyable for all.

Thank you!

Your engagement with the community has been a breath of fresh air.