Tier List

[Kaerius]

This is based on how easy they make the run, front-loaded monsters get higher tiers, as do those that keep corruption in check.

S: Gargoyle, Jotunn, Shambler
A: Cockatrice, Nosferatu, Wolpertinger, Orthruss
B: Mephisto, Star Spawn, Tatzelwurm
C: Ooze, Cherufe, Domovoy, Mandragora
D: Wyrmling, Warden

All monsters can win, almost any composition can win, but how they do out the gate in the early game matters.

D: Wyrmling is good support later, but too weak early, warden is weak and doesn't defend that well without some lucky ability picks.
C: Ooze has tank tag but can't fill the role, Cherufe gets dragged down a bit by how bad purge is, Domovoy and Mandragora are too passive(until/unless they get blood pact).
B: Mephisto gets dragged down for debuffing your own team, Star Spawn and Tatzelwurm are pretty good, a little frail, but mostly just not as awesome as the A and S tier monsters.
A: Cockatrice has excellent offense and decent defense, Nosferatu is a team wide offense buff, and can become defense buff, Wolpertinger and Orthruss are really good offense, sidekick is the most powerful offensive mechanic, and they also get crit or power respectively.
S: Gargoyle has the offensive power of Orthruss, and also can defend the team, kinda busted. Jotunn and Shambler are excellent defenders, and they can become offensive powerhouses, but they have shielding and redirecting right out the gate.

[KingOfCharge]

You seem to punish monsters with the tank tag that perform a different role better a little too harshly. For warden the tank tag’s main purpose seems to be giving access to things like gemstone crash, and for ooze (who admittedly is actively harmed by some of the skills being added to the pool) it seems to mostly be for poison-triggered retaliation effects. Admittedly warden does need to be built around with purge and/or weakness to be good, does deserve to be bottom half of the list, just for lower versatility with teammates more than outright lack of usefulness
Also wyrmling can get seriously strong later, seems to be getting treated as if this is a game where act 1 contains most of the difficulty and being good later isn’t worth much (this isn’t that game, being good later can be worth being weak early)
Starspawn probably deserves A despite being made of paper for being the best aether battery in the game, seriously with that thing active aether is borderline impossible to run out of at times even for the most aether hungry monsters in the game

[Kaerius]

I find that if I make it to act 2 my team will win.
All of the monsters get strong later, not just wyrmling.
If I put star spawn in A tier, I'd have to bump up Wolpertinger and Orthruss to S tier. Sidekick is that strong. When you can build teams that kill 1-2 enemies turn 1 each time and stagger the third, game gets easy.
Star spawn takes time to get started(or high level and lucky actions/traits, turbo age teams do rock). Seriously powerful at the end, just ok at the start. Solid, not exceptional.
Arguably Shambler is a better early aether battery, but yes star spawn is good.

[Fendelphi]

Counter point.
Shield based strategies(Gargoyle, Jotunn, Shambler) tend to be slow in terms of winning fights, especially early game when you do not have the abilities to synergize yet. Fairly safe in terms of getting to the current end game, but it takes a fair bit longer most of the time. They can also have problems when dealing with Burn/Poison setups, if they take too long. Gargoyle in particular is quite vulnerable to Weakness as well, as most of its damage relies on Sidekick.


Warden is probably my favourite monster to use, to the point that I try not to use it, as it becomes too easy. It can basically do anything. It can mitigate incoming damage through Purge and Weakness, and it has some tank perks(initial shield and Defense from Worthiness) and can get Tank based traits and abilities. It also has a base health of 45.
On top of that, it gains Power when your team purges, steals or apply Weakness, and one of its starting actions is a 4 hit attack, so it scales really well with Power. And it gets +damage from Worthiness.
Basically, it is a monster that works in most parties, depending on which abilities you pick.


I also find Regeneration to be very powerful. They end up dealing so much damage and constantly apply regeneration without you spending any actions.



I dont like the "S, A, B, C, D" ranking system. It does not explain why a monster is put into that category, and it is usually based on a specific playstyle that the one making the ranking likes to use.

I would go with 1) 2) 3).

1) Monster can be used in most compositions and can fill a variety of roles. They have good innate scaling(including Worthiness) and are self-sufficient(can get a lot of great skills from its own 3 types). Some, but not all, are great in the early game and without additional Perks(Worthiness).

2) Monster can be used in most compositions. It will often have a specialized role within a party and have good scaling. Some, but not all, are great in the early game and without additional Perks(Worthiness).

3) Monster is very specialized and focused on a specific playstyle. It can have good scaling, when you get the right abilities. It requires other monsters to create synergies with. Some, but not all, are great in the early game and without additional Perks(Worthiness).


I would put Warden, Orthrus and maybe Star Spawn in category 1.

Most monsters end up in category 2.

Currently, there is only one monster I would put in category 3, and that is Ooze. It focus specifically on Poison effects, and it require ways to remove debuffs to manage the self-poison damage. It also require very specific traits and actions to maximize its potential. Due to how the monster works, it can be a liability when fighting 2 Mephistos, as the more debuffs you throw around, the stronger they get.
It is still a strong monster when allowed to do what it wants, but it is the most specialized and restricted.

[KingOfCharge]

Fendelphi lähetti viestin:

Counter point.
Shield based strategies(Gargoyle, Jotunn, Shambler) tend to be slow in terms of winning fights, especially early game when you do not have the abilities to synergize yet. Fairly safe in terms of getting to the current end game, but it takes a fair bit longer most of the time. They can also have problems when dealing with Burn/Poison setups, if they take too long. Gargoyle in particular is quite vulnerable to Weakness as well, as most of its damage relies on Sidekick.


Warden is probably my favourite monster to use, to the point that I try not to use it, as it becomes too easy. It can basically do anything. It can mitigate incoming damage through Purge and Weakness, and it has some tank perks(initial shield and Defense from Worthiness) and can get Tank based traits and abilities. It also has a base health of 45.
On top of that, it gains Power when your team purges, steals or apply Weakness, and one of its starting actions is a 4 hit attack, so it scales really well with Power. And it gets +damage from Worthiness.
Basically, it is a monster that works in most parties, depending on which abilities you pick.


I also find Regeneration to be very powerful. They end up dealing so much damage and constantly apply regeneration without you spending any actions.



I dont like the "S, A, B, C, D" ranking system. It does not explain why a monster is put into that category, and it is usually based on a specific playstyle that the one making the ranking likes to use.

I would go with 1) 2) 3).

1) Monster can be used in most compositions and can fill a variety of roles. They have good innate scaling(including Worthiness) and are self-sufficient(can get a lot of great skills from its own 3 types). Some, but not all, are great in the early game and without additional Perks(Worthiness).

2) Monster can be used in most compositions. It will often have a specialized role within a party and have good scaling. Some, but not all, are great in the early game and without additional Perks(Worthiness).

3) Monster is very specialized and focused on a specific playstyle. It can have good scaling, when you get the right abilities. It requires other monsters to create synergies with. Some, but not all, are great in the early game and without additional Perks(Worthiness).


I would put Warden, Orthrus and maybe Star Spawn in category 1.

Most monsters end up in category 2.

Currently, there is only one monster I would put in category 3, and that is Ooze. It focus specifically on Poison effects, and it require ways to remove debuffs to manage the self-poison damage. It also require very specific traits and actions to maximize its potential. Due to how the monster works, it can be a liability when fighting 2 Mephistos, as the more debuffs you throw around, the stronger they get.
It is still a strong monster when allowed to do what it wants, but it is the most specialized and restricted.

You say gargoyle is slow, I’m not sure how much you’ve actually used that monster…

[Science-black-man]

I disagree with a few of the placements. Sidekick is strong, but Wolpertinger specifically is just okay. Crit isn't good enough to bring to A IMO, I'd rather use it in Purge than Sidekick. I'd put it at B or C.

Definitely wouldn't place Warden at D. Incredibly versatile as a generic pick, and good very in purge comps (which I think you undervalue).

Cherufe and Ooze are way too low. Their debuff stacking can do some seriously good numbers, and going straight burn on cherufe is a valid choice (though purge really increases its efficacy). I'd pick them both over Tatzelwurm in almost any situation unless I'm building very specifically around Tatzel.

I haven't used Mephisto much, but really didn't like the risk of team debuffs on him. Won with him before, but not a huge fan regardless. I haven't really played since before the Cockatrice patch so I haven't tried it, but I agree with everything else. Would be tempted to put Star Spawn in A because it gets very good and very consistent AoE if you use Shambler and build specifically around wild aether generation.

[KingOfCharge]

When using start spawn plus shambler, I more often find star spawn making aether to power shambler than the other way around. Whichever one powers the other, top tier team maybe best duo in the game.

[Fendelphi]

KingOfCharge lähetti viestin:

You say gargoyle is slow, I’m not sure how much you’ve actually used that monster…

It is fairly slow, unless you get very specific traits and abilities, and in very specific teams, and even then, you typically do not win in 2 rounds, or consistently win in 3. If you do, it is because of other members of the team, not Gargoyle.
In the early game especially, it feels slow to play.

If you do not get "Make it Double", it completely stumbles if Weakness is applies to it.
You need additional Power and Shield/sidekick generation from other monsters to make Gargoyle generate enough Sidekick damage to keep up with other playstyles, and even then, Sidekick only ever hits a single target.

On top of that, it is bad at breaking poise if you rely on Mineralize/Sidekicks, which means a reliance on other monsters/limited team composition.

It is not a bad monster. In fact, it is quite good for certain strategies, but it requires some specific components(traits, actions, team members) to deal decent damage.
It is an easy monster to use, but fairly slow, like the other Shield based monsters.

[KingOfCharge]

Gargoyle for me isn’t strong because it’s defensive. It’s because it remains offensive even as it uses defensive action after defensive action, because stone fist allows it to just stack sidekick and continue to deal damage as it shields and mineralize gives moar power to the others, allowing them to deal damage.
My gargoyle setups tend to kill rather quickly using multi-stacked sidekick and constant temp power.
Also, just noticed you said shambler is shield based and slow. Really, shambler does whatever you want it to, early game it is consistently defensive but all it takes is one good attack and it’s suddenly doing crazy damage if fueled with sufficient aether. I’ve had hyper offense and actual max shield both off shambler+starspawn, one from an explosive rush shambler fueled by wyrmling power and the other from an age build with shambler eon shield.
Though I don’t agree with everything in the post, I absolutely agree with the top 3. Shambler does everything well depending on how you build it by acting twice. Gargoyle does everything well at once on the same build. And Jotunn may lack that versatility, but makes up for it by just being the god of tanking

[Exodus]

This list is wack

[KingOfCharge]

Any specific comments? Saying WHY a tier list is wack is more helpful for everyone (and more fun) than saying it sucks without any further explanation

[Shneekey]

Dude, you are *seriously* undervaluing Mandragora, who is one of the most insanely busted supports in the demo. Like, it becomes almost impossible for your team to die with Mandragora dumping a ton of Regen on everyone. As long as you are not actually one-shot, damage no longer matters. And given its secondary focus on Weakness application, that's simply not going to happen either unless you just infinitely stall someone like the Star Spawn boss who just continues to scale.

It is right up there with Garg for single-handedly being able to carry a team that otherwise doesn't really gel.

[KindridSkylar]

Kaerius lähetti viestin:

This is based on how easy they make the run, front-loaded monsters get higher tiers, as do those that keep corruption in check.

S: Gargoyle, Jotunn, Shambler
A: Cockatrice, Nosferatu, Wolpertinger, Orthruss
B: Mephisto, Star Spawn, Tatzelwurm
C: Ooze, Cherufe, Domovoy, Mandragora
D: Wyrmling, Warden

All monsters can win, almost any composition can win, but how they do out the gate in the early game matters.

D: Wyrmling is good support later, but too weak early, warden is weak and doesn't defend that well without some lucky ability picks.
C: Ooze has tank tag but can't fill the role, Cherufe gets dragged down a bit by how bad purge is, Domovoy and Mandragora are too passive(until/unless they get blood pact).
B: Mephisto gets dragged down for debuffing your own team, Star Spawn and Tatzelwurm are pretty good, a little frail, but mostly just not as awesome as the A and S tier monsters.
A: Cockatrice has excellent offense and decent defense, Nosferatu is a team wide offense buff, and can become defense buff, Wolpertinger and Orthruss are really good offense, sidekick is the most powerful offensive mechanic, and they also get crit or power respectively.
S: Gargoyle has the offensive power of Orthruss, and also can defend the team, kinda busted. Jotunn and Shambler are excellent defenders, and they can become offensive powerhouses, but they have shielding and redirecting right out the gate.

You clearly aren't using Ooze to its fullest ability because every time I've run it, It's literally filling its role to perfection. Not to mention he has innate corruption removal but you put him in C tier? Nothing about that choice makes sense. Mandragora is a regen type monster; of course its going to be a bit passive. It's a healer. How you consider it C tier is a mystery. The amount of regen it cranks out is almost not fair. Unless you get 1 tapped you're more than likely not losing that run. The undervaluing is crazy with this list.

[KingOfCharge]

Corruption removal doesn’t make a strong monster instantly. The main purpose of removing corruption is to survive longer yet ooze self damage means it’s not more durable than just normal monsters at baseline and -2 doesn’t outpace corruption gain unless you are extremely good at not gaining the stuff in the first place (and at that point, who cares about the corruption you are clearly stronger)
I agree that ooze isn’t just bad, but the self poison is annoying to play around when trying to make ooze perform certain roles

[KindridSkylar]

KingOfCharge lähetti viestin:

Corruption removal doesn’t make a strong monster instantly. The main purpose of removing corruption is to survive longer yet ooze self damage means it’s not more durable than just normal monsters at baseline and -2 doesn’t outpace corruption gain unless you are extremely good at not gaining the stuff in the first place (and at that point, who cares about the corruption you are clearly stronger)
I agree that ooze isn’t just bad, but the self poison is annoying to play around when trying to make ooze perform certain roles

The sheer amount of skills that basically delete any debuffs you get in almost any run involving poison renders that whole self poison gimmick a non issue. And yes that -2 corruption every battle most certainly helps. You slow the accumulation over time each run by massive amounts. Sure its not a mass reduction all at once but it adds up. Also i never said ooze was strong. I said he fulfills his tank role more genuinely than the original poster gives him credit for, which he does. Also he has one of the strongest base mass heals from any monster. gives them +2 poison sure, but again in any poison run you'll more than likely get a skill involving removing debuffs. His self poison is a non issue.

[Fendelphi]

KingOfCharge lähetti viestin:

Corruption removal doesn’t make a strong monster instantly. The main purpose of removing corruption is to survive longer yet ooze self damage means it’s not more durable than just normal monsters at baseline and -2 doesn’t outpace corruption gain unless you are extremely good at not gaining the stuff in the first place (and at that point, who cares about the corruption you are clearly stronger)
I agree that ooze isn’t just bad, but the self poison is annoying to play around when trying to make ooze perform certain roles

A few things here.
Corruption affects your starting health at combat start, which does mean overall higher survivability. Ooze require less "other corruption cleansing" compared to most other monsters, as it basically has an empowered water boon from the start.
Ooze start at 45 health(at base), and with worthiness 3, it is 55, at level 1. So you have a larger health pool to absorb damage with, and in turn, steadily drain corruption from.
It does not matter that Ooze inflicts self damage, as it does inflict corruption. As long as you have healing during combat, its high health pool allows it to inflict a lot of self damage and still be fine(at later stages, I was doing 20 something self damage per turn).

Ooze is a specialist, and does not conform to various roles easily(you have to utilize poison and affliction, which is very different to most monsters).