AI doesn't war each other despite 1.0.4 update

[GreenWind]

AI does not attack forces other than those targeted by division policies.

However, the player force is an exception and always attacks first.

So the AI ​​Aggressiveness option added in version 1.0.4 has no meaning.

I find something strange while playing the 194 scenario.

Yuan Shao<->Gongsun Zan,
Sun Ce<->Liu Biao,
Cao Cao<->Lu Bu,
only attack each other and never attack other forces.

In particular, there were many cases where Yuan Shao died of old age without being able to conquer Gongsun Zan.

In other Romance of the Three Kingdoms series, Yuan Shao first destroyed weak powers such as Gong Yong, Zhang Yan, and Zhang Yang to expand his power and then destroyed Gongsun Zan. And I think this is smart AI

As a very simple example, let's look at Sun Ce in the 200-year scenario. There is a prey called Noebak right above, but it will never attack until it destroys Yupyo.

The conclusion is that the AI ​​aggression of version 1.0.4 is only focused on attacking the player. Even in this case, if the player piles up a lot of soldiers without any gaps, they will not attack. In the end, there is almost no fighting with each other other than the target force, making the game very loose.

Although it is important to some extent to aim for division policies's target force or player force, I think it is a wise AI to attack the weak force first.

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1.0.4アップデートにもかかわらず、AIは互いに戦争をしません。

AIは軍団方針の打倒勢力（目標勢力）対象ではない勢力を攻撃しません。

しかし、プレイヤーが属する勢力は例外であり、常に最初に攻撃します。

したがって、バージョン1.0.4に追加されたAI攻撃性オプションはまったく意味がありません。

194年のシナリオをプレイして奇妙な点を発見しました。

元素<->ゴンソンチャン、
手書き<->予約、
ジョジョ<->卵胞

お互いに攻撃し、他の勢力は全く攻撃しません。

特に元素は公孫瓚の勢力を征服できず、寿命が尽きて死亡することが多かったです。

他の三国志シリーズでは、元素は常に自分の勢力を拡大するために 張讓、孔融、張燕、
弱い勢力を先に占領した後、強大国になり、ついに公孫瓚を滅ぼしました。
他のシリーズで軍雄するの元素は常に強い勢力になることが多かった
これが望ましいAIだと思います。

非常に簡単な例として、200年のシナリオの孫策です。真上には雷箔という餌感がありますが、流標を滅ぼす前には絶対攻撃をしません。

結論は現在バージョン1.0.4のAI攻撃性はプレイヤーを攻撃するだけで血眼になっており、
これさえもプレイヤーが隙間なく兵士をたくさん積み重ねておけば攻撃に来ず、
結局、ターゲットにした勢力以外は互いに戦うことがほとんどなく、ゲームが非常に退屈するということです。

タケット勢力、プレイヤー勢力を目指すのがある程度は重要ですが、無条件に弱い勢力から攻撃するのが賢明なAIだと思います。

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1.0.4 업데이트가 되었음에도 불구하고 AI가 서로 전쟁을 하지 않는 이슈가 있습니다.

AI는 군단방침 의 타도세력(목표세력) 대상이 아닌 세력을 공격하지 않습니다.

그러나 플레이어 세력은 예외이며 항상 먼저 공격합니다.

따라서 버전 1.0.4에 추가된 AI 공격성 옵션은 전혀 의미가 없습니다.

194년 시나리오를 플레이하다가 이상한 점을 발견했습니다.

원소<->공손찬,
손책<->유표,
조조<->여포는

서로만 공격하고 다른 세력은 전혀 공격하지 않습니다.

특히 원소가 공손찬을 끝내 정복하지 못하고 늙어 죽는 경우가 많았습니다.

다른 삼국지 시리즈에서 원소는 항상 자신의 세력을 확장하기 위해 공융, 장연, 장양 등의
약한 세력을 먼저 점령한 뒤 강대국이 되었고 마침내 공손찬을 멸망시켰습니다.
다른시리즈에서 군웅할거의 원소는 항상 강한 세력이 되는 경우가 많았습니다
이것이 바람직한 AI라고 생각합니다.

또다른 아주 간단한 예가 200년 시나리오의 손책입니다.
바로 위에 뇌박이라는 먹잇감이 있지만 유표를 멸망시키기 전에는 절대 공격을 하지 않습니다.

결론은 현재 버전 1.0.4의 AI 공격성은 플레이어를 공격하는 데만 혈안이 되어있고
이마저도 플레이어가 빈틈없이 병사를 많이 쌓아두면 공격오지 않으며
결국 목표타켓세력 외에는 서로 싸우는 일이 거의 없어 게임을 매우 지루하게 만든다는 것입니다.

타켓세력, 플레이어 세력을 목표로 하는것이 어느정도는 중요하지만 무조건 약한세력부터 공격하는것이 현명한 AI라고 생각합니다

[Narrowmind]

We know.

[Gapaw]

Game needs a major fix...

[XYZEXPIRED]

It is not strange in those scenario. It is program historical if you are playing as that, they hated each other to the gut so coalition is possible against those no matter if they hated you or no, they will join versus the other.

[GreenWind]

Publicado originalmente por XYZEXPIRED:

It is not strange in those scenario. It is program historical if you are playing as that, they hated each other to the gut so coalition is possible against those no matter if they hated you or no, they will join versus the other.

I only used the 194 and 200 scenarios as examples, but in most scenarios, AI do not fight each other.
It is something you can feel after playing the demo for just an hour.

[境璃长一、]

I think so

[XYZEXPIRED]

Publicado originalmente por GreenWind:

Publicado originalmente por XYZEXPIRED:

It is not strange in those scenario. It is program historical if you are playing as that, they hated each other to the gut so coalition is possible against those no matter if they hated you or no, they will join versus the other.

I only used the 194 and 200 scenarios as examples, but in most scenarios, AI do not fight each other.
It is something you can feel after playing the demo for just an hour.

An hour doesn't do it justice for this type of game.
While I do agree that they do not fight each other as often, but once it pass couple years in, they finally make some move.
I do feel like playing those older browser or mobile game where they set the level or time at the beginning where no attack happening until you build up.
So yes, it is not as crazy fighting like older ROTK so not a lots of memorial battle, just once in a while battle. Only some area where they are worth it to fight.

[GreenWind]

Publicado originalmente por XYZEXPIRED:

Publicado originalmente por GreenWind:

I only used the 194 and 200 scenarios as examples, but in most scenarios, AI do not fight each other.
It is something you can feel after playing the demo for just an hour.

An hour doesn't do it justice for this type of game.
While I do agree that they do not fight each other as often, but once it pass couple years in, they finally make some move.
I do feel like playing those older browser or mobile game where they set the level or time at the beginning where no attack happening until you build up.
So yes, it is not as crazy fighting like older ROTK so not a lots of memorial battle, just once in a while battle. Only some area where they are worth it to fight.

Uniquely in the Romance of the Three Kingdoms series, 8 can only go to war once every three months, so wars must occur more frequently than in other series. Otherwise, time will pass by in an instant and all major generals will die.

Also, in 11, which received the best reviews among the Romance of the Three Kingdoms series, wars between AI occurred very frequently, and users also like this.

[Narrowmind]

Well said.

[qsnoopyjr]

Find this true with many games.
As in the AI vs AI doesn't really happen.
Not everything has to be around the player for a good game, good game changes occur outside of what the player is doing. AI vs AI and so on.

Other games lacking the outside of the player stuff happening,
WWE 2K, its like the AI just targets the player not much AI vs AI going on
I think Civilization is like this too, in Civilization the AI will fight each but when you discover them, then they start targeting you and not fight each other so the key is to not discover them so the AI vs AI occurs. Which is sad

Anyways just agreeing but its not just KOEI its like a trend with a lot of games. It's not a positive thing to be part of those trends either. Just means another typical video game in the 2020s.
I like watching AI vs AI, in this game sometimes I'll stop attacking and dominating because I'm giving AI time to buildup and they not conquering or anything its just another easy win.

The advanced setting is just tedious for early game, late game its nothing.
I don't like playing with handicaps either as in I get troops 50% of the normal rate while AI is getting 200% of the normal rate and so on. Make the AI better, not put me in handicaps.

[jkaede8]

As mentioned by someone, it is not strange that the AI doesn't attack much in the beginning. It's pre-programmed for historical so as not to mess up the tales that needed to be activated. AI mainly will attack those that wont affect historical (Ex: Cao Cao will always normally attack Liu Dai first). Once you get passsed a certain situation where historical tales cant be activated anymore, AI will suddenly be aggressive and attack a lot barring they dont have high diplomacy or alliance.

[qsnoopyjr]

Publicado originalmente por jkaede8:

As mentioned by someone, it is not strange that the AI doesn't attack much in the beginning. It's pre-programmed for historical so as not to mess up the tales that needed to be activated. AI mainly will attack those that wont affect historical (Ex: Cao Cao will always normally attack Liu Dai first). Once you get passsed a certain situation where historical tales cant be activated anymore, AI will suddenly be aggressive and attack a lot barring they dont have high diplomacy or alliance.

You saying the AI try to be historical?

No I disagree.
I play lot of the Yellow Turban era ones, Liu Bei is vagrant force or whatever and always attacking Nan Pi so whoever owns that or Ding Yuan, always losing too.

On Zhang Chun Call to arms and Changsha upheaval scenario, there is one with Cao Cao and his officers as free officers in Qiao and He Yi is in Runa. Guess what He Yi recruits Cao Cao and all his officers. Guess what the tale is coming up, something about Cao Cao has to be with He Jin, to start that tale.
He Yi has Cao Cao and guess what He Yi is doing, conquering those empty cities.

That tale never happens or difficult to happen because He Yi has Cao Cao, he's using Cao Cao to go conquer cities and all sudden Cao Cao nowhere near He Jin, probably not going to join He Jin too. Next thing you know its like 200AD long past when that tale should happen and the tales after that tale. like Dong Zhou, way past way long gone.

However,
I do notice the AI it will not do anything for 2 years or around that, then after the set time, every single AI is going on conquer city mode, expanding dumb. Like if they have 3 officers, they going to keep expanding until every city has 1 officer.
Shi Xie expand expand,

But its after a certain timeperiod, nothing to do with historical, because Cao Cao never joins He Jin, the AI for Cao Cao isn't smart enough to know, don't join He Yi, move to He Jin, now join He Jin.
nope never happens. He Yi got all those officers that usually join Cao Cao after sometime and Cao Cao.

Anyways,
I want these tales to happen, but they don't because the free officers and what not join the wrong people, Cao Cao should never join He Yi or be very hard for He Yi to recruit him. But that is not happening.

I'll take Cao Cao from He Yi, I'll not be on good terms with He Jin, I'll lower Cao Cao loyalty to like 60, and He Jin STILL doesn't try to just steal Cao Cao from me, so I can trigger the tale the warring lords or whatever. Where He Jin dies and all sudden bunch of lords appear in cities.

AI is just too dumb, I'm like making it obvious, Cao Cao not loyal take him from me.
Doesn't happen. Doesn't happen. Instead Liu Pi or someone who don't care AI will go after them, He Yi will at least.

They need to do better with their tales, if it requires Cao Cao and someone else, just have a tale before that, those people join whoever, rather than if this has this or that then this.

So AI doing towards history I don't see that, they may have said the AI should be doing that, but I'm not seeing that.

[GreenWind]

Publicado originalmente por qsnoopyjr:

Find this true with many games.
Anyways just agreeing but its not just KOEI its like a trend with a lot of games. It's not a positive thing to be part of those trends either. Just means another typical video game in the 2020s.
I like watching AI vs AI, in this game sometimes I'll stop attacking and dominating because I'm giving AI time to buildup and they not conquering or anything its just another easy win.

The advanced setting is just tedious for early game, late game its nothing.
I don't like playing with handicaps either as in I get troops 50% of the normal rate while AI is getting 200% of the normal rate and so on. Make the AI better, not put me in handicaps.

You're right. In a good game, when the difficulty is increased, the AI ​​becomes smarter rather than imposing a numerical penalty on the player.

However, when analyzing the Romance of the Three Kingdoms series so far, we know that Koei does not have that ability.

Considering that, I think it would be best to fix the current biggest problem, which is that AI does not attack anyone other than the target force.

[MSS]

I dont know what you mean by the AI not attacking each other, in all my playthrough Yuan shao often went up to attack Ji although he often fails and ended up weakening nanpi allowing a gongsuzan counterattack

Sun Ce/Quan often attack LiuBiao got captured and executed causing some funny succession for Wu cause sometimes the governors goes independent and its always fun to see who it will be whether Sun Yi SunLiang or some other sun people taking over

the only thing that i would like to note is usually the ai builds up first, but also if you're playing somewhat historical in the sense that you let all the tales fires off the AI dont go wild in the first 1-2 yrs because i think there is a hidden script for the ai to not go wild so that the historical tales can fire off as much as possible

the 1-2 yrs is the aggressive expansion limiter time limit i think because usually after that 2yrs then the ai start moving to take empty cities and go to war

[GreenWind]

Publicado originalmente por MSS:

I dont know what you mean by the AI not attacking each other, in all my playthrough Yuan shao often went up to attack Ji although he often fails and ended up weakening nanpi allowing a gongsuzan counterattack

Sun Ce/Quan often attack LiuBiao got captured and executed causing some funny succession for Wu cause sometimes the governors goes independent and its always fun to see who it will be whether Sun Yi SunLiang or some other sun people taking over

the only thing that i would like to note is usually the ai builds up first, but also if you're playing somewhat historical in the sense that you let all the tales fires off the AI dont go wild in the first 1-2 yrs because i think there is a hidden script for the ai to not go wild so that the historical tales can fire off as much as possible

the 1-2 yrs is the aggressive expansion limiter time limit i think because usually after that 2yrs then the ai start moving to take empty cities and go to war

This does not mean that AI attacks will never occur. This means attacking only the target force. As you said, Yuan Shao only attacks Gongsun Zan, and only when Gongsun Zan is eliminated does it attack other forces. Also exceptions are blank spaces and players.

Play the demo in the 189-200 scenario. No AI can unify the world.

[Guntank...in SPAAAAAAAACE!!!]

Bought and finished the game recently and I actually got the opposite impression: On Default settings, some factions are either _overly_ aggressive outside of historical bounds or too fond of making and keeping alliances, making triggering certain Events like Cao Cao snatching Emperor Xi'an very difficult to impossible.

I started a scenario in 189, and within 1-2 years, Liu Yan and Shi Xie's factions started expanding _too_ rapidly and were constantly attacking each other, while after Liu Bei got Xuzhou, he started expanding horizontally as well and took Xuchang (before I chased him out and killed him as part of Cao Cao's faction). Also during that time, Yuan Shao killed Liu Yu, Zhang Yan and Lu Bu and just sat in Luoyang while Ma Teng killed Li Jue and took Chang'an and Hongnong, and Zhang Lu expanded eastwards and killed Liu Biao after failing to attack Liu Yan. And as aforementioned, Cao Cao just kept allying with Yuan Shao, so the Guandu events never triggered.

Then again I was playing with an Original General so not sure if Historical generals actually make the AI behave differently or not to allow those Generals' events to trigger properly, or if different scenarios and time periods change the AIs of individual factions to account for historical events or not (i.e. starting in 189 makes Cao Cao and Yuan Shao more inclined to befriend each other to keep antagonizing Dong Zhuo than starting in 198-200 so the Battle of Guandu events can actually occur).