New Trailer, and more disappointment.

[babobaka]

The new trailer shows more proof that devs really don't understand what made original ROTK8 fun and interesting.

The event scenes showed they are full of specific cut scenes with specific characters. The beauty of ROTK8 was that most events were open for ANY officers, as long as they meet the requirements. Making it possible for your favorite 2 officers to marry 2 Xiaos, or become one of 5 Tiger Generals, etc. e

I think original game had about 50 events, and according to trailer remake has 58. So they didn't even add much event, but each even means less now because we lost the freedom to make OUR favorite officer to become main character of that event.

For me, important features of ROTK8 was following:

- Different style of play depending on your position (Ruler, Warlord, Officer, etc. Hopefully they didn't ruin this part)
- Multiple character selection (This is cut from the game)
- Allowing any officer to become main characters of historical events. (Based on the trailer, it looks like this is also cut from the game)

Those 3 were main selling point of ROTK8 that separated it from other ROTK games, and they already ruined 2 of them and 3rd one is still in question.

What I wanted from ROTK8 Remake was following:

- Add LDR stats (feature that was added later ROTK franchise, and became essential)
- Add more children to be born and expand child raising gameplay
- Make combat quicker (original game was a slug to play)
- Add debate

At least from the trailer, it seems like they are adding those features, but if we are not keeping features that made made ROTK8 unique, what's the point? It's just another ROTK entry, not a remake of ROTK8.

So far, only "Tales" feature look interesting, but my hopes is not too high. If it's just another scenario mode they had in the past, it is quite lame. However, if "Tales" is a feature in actual main game, then it might be interesting new feature, but not enough info of how this works yet, so I am cautiously interested for now.

Anyway, it's officer gameplay ROTK, so I will end up getting it, but as original ROTK8 fan, I am quite disappointed. This is a good proof that these devs are completely clueless when it comes to what makes ROTK franchise great. The future of this franchise look bleak considering the people in charge of making these games.

[Adzi]

calm down, this was just a single trailer. Besides, original ROTK 8 didn't had nearly as much events as the newer installment

Also, about the LDR stat - you have no idea what you are talking about. It was added... either in 3 or 4 (as in, separated from the stat governing duels), and then was deliberately removed from 7 and 8

[babobaka]

Originally posted by Adzi:

calm down, this was just a single trailer. Besides, original ROTK 8 didn't had nearly as much events as the newer installment

Also, about the LDR stat - you have no idea what you are talking about. It was added... either in 3 or 4 (as in, separated from the stat governing duels), and then was deliberately removed from 7 and 8

I just checked gamefaqs.

Original ROTK 8 had 96 events, so not sure what you are talking about saying ROTK8 didn't have much events.

As for LDR stats, didn't know ROTK4 had them first. If that was the case, then KOEI made a mistake not adding that stat in ROTK8 in the first place. Glad future entries since X didn't make the same mistake again.

Also even if it's single trailer, it is showing what to expect from the game. It gave us enough proof that this is not carrying many features that made ROTK8 special.

[Narrowmind]

Yeah, I too, remember around 100 events. Not sure why he's thinking the game won't allow new characters to fit into some of the old events. It already said it will allow new relationships that didn't exist in the past. We don't have enough information to justify such an extreme opinion yet.

[babobaka]

Originally posted by Narrowmind:

Yeah, I too, remember around 100 events. Not sure why he's thinking the game won't allow new characters to fit into some of the old events. It already said it will allow new relationships that didn't exist in the past. We don't have enough information to justify such an extreme opinion yet.

Ok maybe I've jumped the gun when we don't have enough info. I went by the screen when they were showing 55 Scenarios, they were using unique cut scenes with identifiable characters. Which suggests that these events are specific towards those characters, thus eliminating the chance other characters can go through these events as the main character.

However, it could've been just opening cut scene that was playing, or very specific few scenes like in original ROTK8. If that is the case, then I take it back, but if most of the events are tied to specific characters, then my opinion stands.

The beauty of original ROTK8 was that so many events were open for any characters to enjoy. Finding Pang Tong, Xu Shu, marrying two Qiaos, marrying Sun Shang Xiang, etc

Granted ROTK8 still had many events that were tied to specific characters like Liu Bei, Guan Yu, or Cao Cao. Those too would've been better if any officers can go through those events instead, so the player can go through those historical events instead of specific characters, and that's what Remake should've focused as that was unique feature of ROTK8 and that's what made it special.

Considering the event system ROTK 13 had, it was an opportunity for them to make it happen, while adding create event mode.

Let's wait and see for more info. Hopefully I am wrong about this, and they've kept that feature from original in, where any character the player chooses can still go through most of the events set in the game. I do think I will be proven right at the end (and boy I wish to be wrong about this), but let's wait and see.

[Narrowmind]

We all want the same things, and frankly, Koei always has a lot going against it to me, with its stale development. XIV was using still images that were nearly 25 years old. Looking at the trailers, this may be their best Romance game yet. Excited to see what they've got for us.

The thing I'm most concerned about was I didn't notice anything that wasn't basically vanilla to the original, when it was advertised to use the PUK. They didn't bother to put children in the trailer, for example, which was a big deal. I actually believe this is the first game since XI I'll buy on release.

[babobaka]

Originally posted by Narrowmind:

We all want the same things, and frankly, Koei always has a lot going against it to me, with its stale development. XIV was using still images that were nearly 25 years old. Looking at the trailers, this may be their best Romance game yet. Excited to see what they've got for us.

The thing I'm most concerned about was I didn't notice anything that wasn't basically vanilla to the original, when it was advertised to use the PUK. They didn't bother to put children in the trailer, for example, which was a big deal. I actually believe this is the first game since XI I'll buy on release.

Yeah, sounds like we all want the same thing.

It is sad that my immediate react was having massive doubt's on devs. At this point I am conditioned to expect the worst from them, and I am rarely wrong when I take that stance sadly.

I do envy your optimism though. I will still get the game since it's not like I have much choice when it comes to ROTK games, especially for officer based gameplay.

I probably won't get the game on the day of release. I will probably read some reviews, and depending on the review(of course I don't care about the score, I only care about the details and info about the game), I will decide if I will buy near release date, or wait for sales.

[Adzi]

I personally don't really need WAR/STR and LDR stats to be separate, either works for me


Watching the trailer closely (around 1:45 mark, Cao Cao's stats are shown), it looks like LEA is separate from STR in the Remake.

[babobaka]

Originally posted by Adzi:

I personally don't really need WAR/STR and LDR stats to be separate, either works for me


Watching the trailer closely (around 1:45 mark, Cao Cao's stats are shown), it looks like LEA is separate from STR in the Remake.

That's good news.

It was annoying to see Zhuge Liang and Cao Cao being mediocre generals in original ROTK8 due to low WAR stats, while characters like Xu Zhu being great due to high WAR stats.

[Adzi]

to be frank

Between the Romance, and the history... Zhuge Liang wasn't actually much of a tactical genius, his competences lied in grander strategy.

And, IIRC, Cao Cao definitely wasn't mediocre - although at least some of the Tiger Generals would outclass him in a unit vs unit slugfest, not taking into account usage of Tactics.

...exactly, Tactics are another thing that differentiated officers in 8 in regards of their battlefield command ability. A high WAR officer would be winning a straight exchange of melee, but successful Tactics can quickly make this irrelevant.

[babobaka]

Originally posted by Adzi:

to be frank

Between the Romance, and the history... Zhuge Liang wasn't actually much of a tactical genius, his competences lied in grander strategy.

And, IIRC, Cao Cao definitely wasn't mediocre - although at least some of the Tiger Generals would outclass him in a unit vs unit slugfest, not taking into account usage of Tactics.

...exactly, Tactics are another thing that differentiated officers in 8 in regards of their battlefield command ability. A high WAR officer would be winning a straight exchange of melee, but successful Tactics can quickly make this irrelevant.

At the end of the day, no matter how you put it, separating WAR stat into STR and LDR stat improves portraying more diverse officer type.

WAR was poor way to describe if the character was good at leading army or was good at martial arts, which is two separate skills in ROTK novel, history, and in real life.

Arguing if Zhuge Liang historically was good tactical genius or not while talking about gameplay of tactics skills, is not a good argument why WAR stats is equal or better than having two separate STR and LDR stats.

[Narrowmind]

Does anyone here remember Tactics 2? The idea that Lu Bu could somehow win wars against some of the greatest minds of the era??? Few things are quite as laughable!

[babobaka]

Originally posted by Narrowmind:

Does anyone here remember Tactics 2? The idea that Lu Bu could somehow win wars against some of the greatest minds of the era??? Few things are quite as laughable!

To be fair, Lu Bu started his career as civil servant, not a military officer.

There are enough records existing to show that he was an educated man, not just some brute.

Of course there are also enough records to show that he wasn't much of a strategist as well, but just wanted to say anyone that took a major role in historical event cannot be underestimated.

In comparison to other heroes at the time, he appears to be incapable, but he was likely top 1% of the educated people at the time.

[Narrowmind]

I know, but Dynasty Tactics was based on the Romance, not the Records, so I argue that God of Might or not, he's not getting past Sima Yi.

[babobaka]

Originally posted by Narrowmind:

I know, but Dynasty Tactics was based on the Romance, not the Records, so I argue that God of Might or not, he's not getting past Sima Yi.

I didn't play Dynasty Tactics to say one way or another.

How did Lu Bu end up going against Sima Yi in the first place? lol Sounds interesting.

[Narrowmind]

It was a branching tactical game that featured the 3 main characters fighting mostly historical battles, where different empire characters led personal armies. At points, you could make decisions that causes the story to go off in other directions. In 2, Lu Bu was unlockable, and it's been like 20 years, but basically, he did this and did that, and by end game, like everyone under heaven was against him. He has to fight some really hard battles, and in the end he just rushed out and fought everyone. But I specifically remember Sima Yi doing some kind of plot in a mountain pass at the end, but because Lu was such a beast, he could fight his way out of anything.

EDIT I don't know what I'm thinking of. Maybe it was Tactics 1. But in 2, he establishes a legacy of might after conquering Cao Cao.

Sima Yi

https://youtu.be/6zf5CA4qFQo?si=9xGtyx3yf4L23JyF