Longevity

[lee.walton5]

I know the game has just come out, but I’m pretty sure there are some people who are on season 2/3.

How does the game hold up after a few season? Main gripe with 22 was it took no more than 2/3 seasons to take the worst team to best.

Any information would be much appreciated

[Ngoc]

winning if you get a weak team is very slow and hard will take 3 maybe 4 season and if you don't do 16x race 23 race x 2/3 season per at least 2 hour per race (practice quali race) is a huge amount of time 150 hours easy obviously people rush everything play all 16x than complain about everything.

[lee.walton5]

Fair, my comment was more, when I got to the front on 22 the others teams stood no chance. I’d love for other teams to be heavy in foot wing design or engine, then one gets reset to zero and everyone has to start again. It would then force a change in order every few seasons. If it takes 3/4 seasons and then there is no challenge. I see little reason to play. I might as well stick with 22

[RaelM]

Originally posted by lee.walton5:

...Main gripe with 22 was it took no more than 2/3 seasons to take the worst team to best.

Any information would be much appreciated

Alfa Romeo has the worst car on the grid and you're able to get them up into the front row in 2 to 3 seasons relatively easily.

They start with one of the best drivers on the grid, Bottas, so all you need is to replace Zhou Guanyu with someone of Bottas's calibre and you have a solid driver pairing.

They also start with Design Centre level 2 giving them 4 project slots for design or research which is great because you can focus the underfloor, front wing, rear wing and cycle the suspension, side pods and chassis with the 4th slot. Designing parts, even with 1 engineer and set to intense for max exertise gain, is much quicker, it takes just 43 days to develop a new underfloor for example.

With the change to the way the airflow attributes work (airflow front and airflow middle), having that 4th slot is really important. You can't just focus on the big 3 now, the underfloor, front and rear wings. You need to develop the other parts, although I think you could get away with just developing the sidepods along with the big 3 as that applies both airflow multipliers. So as far as I'm aware the order of importance for parts goes as follows, underfloor > front wing > rear wing > sidepods > suspension > chassis, although the gains of the first 3 won't be fully realised unless you develop at least the sidepods, the sidepods as I stated apply both airflow front and middle whereas the suspension and chassis only apply front or middle, respectively.

Then there's the way expertise work now, you can find that in a handy guide created by someone who's much better at designing parts then I am and maths. For every point of CFD or Wind Tunnel time on a part you gain 1 day of expertise, plus the expertise of the time taken to develop the part. You see where you can go with this right?

I'll quote a nice bullet point for you;

"While research does not provide immediate results, I remind you it is the only place you can control how each stat is growing with sliders, so if there are big regulation hits to particular stats, you can use hours to entirely negate them. Or if you are very weak in a particular stat, you can gain up to 2 YEARS of daily gain on it in one single research."

So yeah, longevity is what you make of it, sure you can play for a long time but with the way the game is at the moment, it doesn't take you long to take the worst car on the grid and make it win the constructors and drivers championships.

-edit-

Just to highlight my point I went ahead and quickly rushed through an Alfa Romeo start and it was a very bumpy start, I had to manufacture a lot of new parts thanks to DNF's.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3014011952

This is the first season after my first round of proper upgrades. I got Bottas into Q3 at Imola, on merit. Thanks to grid penalties he starts 9th and Zhou 10th. At the start of the season you're very lucky to get out of Q1 with the stock parts, even luckier if you finish in the top 15.

[matcapgame]

Originally posted by lee.walton5:

Fair, my comment was more, when I got to the front on 22 the others teams stood no chance. I’d love for other teams to be heavy in foot wing design or engine, then one gets reset to zero and everyone has to start again. It would then force a change in order every few seasons. If it takes 3/4 seasons and then there is no challenge. I see little reason to play. I might as well stick with 22

i completely agree with you, this is where every f1 manager game (new and old) fail, it doesn't make sense to do a game with the ability to play the same save for infinite seasons if when i win the first championship i will win every season, that kill the game.

there should be more dilemma, more problems during season, little chance to fail design, bigger chance to fail research for next year car, there are many ways to do that but no one did

[Ngoc]

season 2 i wasnt fire from alfa romeo first year that was an accomplishment and now we are with a 9th-10th car (we were 19th-20th begin 2023) I didn't have money to upgrade the design facility yet all money goes in trying to survive... season 2 still good and interesting.

[polloloco]

Here are some Rules I personally follow to make it a little harder

-dont build emergency parts (thats basically magic anyway)
-only use "normal" research speed
-only use presets in sliders (dont max everthing)
-limit the design center and factory to Lvl 2-3
-apart from drivers keep all Staff

for me that results in a more realistic playthrough
i.e. with Haas from where they Start (P11-14) to (P8-12) at the end of the first season

but this one is already harder than the 22 one as you could limit factory and design to level 1 and still outdevellop

[Ngoc]

Realm is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ that you can win in 2 season but hey exaggeration to make your point only make you look stupid you don't have enough money and you can't physically win in first season enough to make money to win season 2

maybe season 3 if you min max everything is possible but people that say impossible things as if is the normal way to play it just ruin their own game.

and 3 season there are 23 race each race if you don't do it 16x (that is not a game is a rush) but at decent speed doing both practice and qualif is at least 1 hour per race

so 3 season is 70 hours at least it doesn't feel so short of a game.

[RaelM]

Originally posted by Ngoc:

Realm is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ that you can win in 2 season but hey exaggeration to make your point only make you look stupid you don't have enough money and you can't physically win in first season enough to make money to win season 2

maybe season 3 if you min max everything is possible but people that say impossible things as if is the normal way to play it just ruin their own game.

and 3 season there are 23 race each race if you don't do it 16x (that is not a game is a rush) but at decent speed doing both practice and qualif is at least 1 hour per race

so 3 season is 70 hours at least it doesn't feel so short of a game.

I already proved you can get in the top 10 with the worst car by the time you get to Imola in the first season, probably could get into the top 10 earlier to be honest... or didn't you check the screenshot, that was raw quali pace that put me that high up on the grid. If you can't score points when you've managed to pop your car into Q3 then you need to rethink your design philosophy.

I had Albon in the top 5 at Baku on my Williams play through in the first season and no it wasn't through DNF's, you just need to develop your parts for the track. I qualified 7th and made two places in the race. Baku is a low speed corner circuit so prioritise that stat, I had the highest low speed cornering stat for Baku doing that, even superior to Red Bull's low speed stat. Still lost out on a win but that's because the the rest were faster on the straights and with DRS, mine was specialised for that circuit so I couldn't keep up with them on the straights.

Here you go, it's a little after Baku, I took this screenshot after Catalunya but you can clearly see the results of my Baku upgrade kit from my new Williams play through.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3014452004
Here's a screenshot of the Red Bull compared to my car, as you can see, I'm vastly superior at low speed corners, that's because I designed those parts specifically for Baku. I'm currently designing parts high speed parts for Silverstone, not that I need them mind you since I have more than enough points already to safely avoid the wrath of the board members.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3014458466
To further drill home my point about designing your parts for the upcoming circuits, here's what my new high speed parts allowed me to do during a dry Canadian Quali session. Not bad for the first season in a Williams if I say so myself, Sargeant is stuck with the old parts so he didn't do as well but that's not an issue since I run a #1 and #2 system and not an equal driver system. I'm sure I'll be doing relatively well at Silverstone to since I designed those parts for that circuit specifically. This is completely possible with Alfa Romeo to if you design your parts well, although maybe not to this degree but you can still qualify around 7th with Bottas quite consistently which makes getting enough points to survive the board a breeze.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3014473588
Oh and if you're curious, Albon got his first podium in that race, 3rd place. Obviously easier to do than Alfa Romeo but still not even halfway through the season and you can challenge, on merit, for a podium. Just like I was challenging for the points with Alfa Romeo by Imola which I showed with a nice Q3 screenshot in that last post. Imola is about a quarter way through the season so you still have three quarters left to make the push higher up the pack and I still think you can get in the points before Imola. I had some bad DNF's so I couldn't constantly develop parts due to cashflow issues, had Zhou decided to not ride the barriers like a NASCAR driver then I think I could've been in the points by Baku, easily.

You can well and truly challenge for podiums with Alfa Romeo in your second season, you just need to know how to spend your money wisely. The lack of headquarters upgrades seems daunting but in actual fact it's a blessing in disguise as it means you have less upkeep costs. All you need to do is upgrade the factory in the first season and concentrate on getting a decent enough of a car to score enough points so you don't get the sack. Then you just focus on developing that car for next year and speaking of next year, don't be afraid to fiddle with the sponsor obligations to eek out more money. For example, I always give media responsibilities to my #2 driver, for every race, always, the lack of control doesn't bother me since they'll be using a crappier car then my #1 anyway and with enough preparedness in practice through circuit and parts knowledge and setup negates it somewhat so it's not that bad of a penalty.

Also a good tip, don't build enough parts right away for two cars when you develop new parts, I just build 1 cars worth first and pop it on my #1. I'd rather have one car with the upgraded parts and have spare parts for it just in case then have two cars and no spare parts. If you can get all the parts built, with enough spares, in time for two cars then go for it but if it's a choice between just X part for two cars or X + Y + Z parts for one car, go for the latter instead. It's better to have one guaranteed points place than two maybes.

So next time you decide to call ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, learn to play the game.

Also learn to read, I stated you can get them on the front row in 2 to 3 seasons, that means beating one of the Red Bulls, you'll have a hard time in season 2 getting past the cheat code that is Verstappen, Perez on the other hand is doable and I have done it with McLaren, Alfa Romeo and Williams, all in season 2, season 3 I was getting race wins consistently with my #1 drivers.

-edit- added a couple of extra screenshots to prove my point.

[RaelM]

Originally posted by DERHAHN:

...limit the design center and factory to Lvl 2-3 ...

That's actually a more min-max way of doing things, the upgrade and upkeep costs of the design centre isn't worth it as it subtracts from your cost cap. As for the factory, I never go past 4 because again, it chips away at your cost cap.

[lee.walton5]

Originally posted by RaelM:

Originally posted by lee.walton5:

...Main gripe with 22 was it took no more than 2/3 seasons to take the worst team to best.

Any information would be much appreciated

Alfa Romeo has the worst car on the grid and you're able to get them up into the front row in 2 to 3 seasons relatively easily.

They start with one of the best drivers on the grid, Bottas, so all you need is to replace Zhou Guanyu with someone of Bottas's calibre and you have a solid driver pairing.

They also start with Design Centre level 2 giving them 4 project slots for design or research which is great because you can focus the underfloor, front wing, rear wing and cycle the suspension, side pods and chassis with the 4th slot. Designing parts, even with 1 engineer and set to intense for max exertise gain, is much quicker, it takes just 43 days to develop a new underfloor for example.

With the change to the way the airflow attributes work (airflow front and airflow middle), having that 4th slot is really important. You can't just focus on the big 3 now, the underfloor, front and rear wings. You need to develop the other parts, although I think you could get away with just developing the sidepods along with the big 3 as that applies both airflow multipliers. So as far as I'm aware the order of importance for parts goes as follows, underfloor > front wing > rear wing > sidepods > suspension > chassis, although the gains of the first 3 won't be fully realised unless you develop at least the sidepods, the sidepods as I stated apply both airflow front and middle whereas the suspension and chassis only apply front or middle, respectively.

Then there's the way expertise work now, you can find that in a handy guide created by someone who's much better at designing parts then I am and maths. For every point of CFD or Wind Tunnel time on a part you gain 1 day of expertise, plus the expertise of the time taken to develop the part. You see where you can go with this right?

I'll quote a nice bullet point for you;

"While research does not provide immediate results, I remind you it is the only place you can control how each stat is growing with sliders, so if there are big regulation hits to particular stats, you can use hours to entirely negate them. Or if you are very weak in a particular stat, you can gain up to 2 YEARS of daily gain on it in one single research."

So yeah, longevity is what you make of it, sure you can play for a long time but with the way the game is at the moment, it doesn't take you long to take the worst car on the grid and make it win the constructors and drivers championships.

-edit-

Just to highlight my point I went ahead and quickly rushed through an Alfa Romeo start and it was a very bumpy start, I had to manufacture a lot of new parts thanks to DNF's.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3014011952

This is the first season after my first round of proper upgrades. I got Bottas into Q3 at Imola, on merit. Thanks to grid penalties he starts 9th and Zhou 10th. At the start of the season you're very lucky to get out of Q1 with the stock parts, even luckier if you finish in the top 15.

Thank you, the in-depth understanding is much appreciated. I had a feeling that it would be a 2/3 seasons max again.

Sound squire similar to 22. You do expertise and just push all the hours in to the main 3 and just do what needs to be done with the other 3. Maybe if they gave easy to hard options. Such as the hard option, the research and development takes much longer. I dunno, anything that actually adds a challenge. Anyway, thanks again for the response. I read them all, it’s clear you have really good game based knowledge.

[RaelM]

Originally posted by Ngoc:

none of the picture is alfa romeo are you dumb?
or you actually winning a championship with alfa romeo or anything of what you said that is easy

Just for you I went ahead and started a new Alfa Romeo play through. I took the liberty of taking a screenshot of all my points scoring positions throughout the first season, I even managed a GP win, a sprint win and a podium, all in the first season. I forgot to take the screenshot of the sprint win but it was the Austrian GP, both the sprint and the race were wet, just like Canada.

I had started using up my old parts towards the end as well since I was in money saving mode for the next season and I wanted to try and drop a place but I was unable to unfortunately. I ended the season on a nice tally of 77 points and I even managed to start investing in my HQ thanks to the money I saved by using older parts.

Also I was right, you can get Alfa Romeo into the points earlier than Imola if you do your parts designs right, nail your setup and strategy on the race weekend.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3014662667
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3014662653
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3014662647
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3014662639
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3014662631
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3014662617
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3014662608
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3014662599
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3014662589
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3014662576

I can't play this weekend as I'm going away but as soon as I get back I'll get started on season 2 but as you can see, it's possible to win with Alfa Romeo in season 1 if you;

A) play your cards right
B) the weather gods favour you
C) the safety car gods favour you to

So who's dumb now? I did state when I posted those screenshots that I was currently in a Williams play through but I did state it was possible to do the same with Alfa Romeo and here you go, proof it's possible with Alfa Romeo.

[anthonygars]

Honestly I don't think it's fair to ask others about longevity here in this case. After all, do you really think that people who have played 3 whole seasons already are BORED? They are not, they are loving the game. You are more likely to get fired over pure bad luck than ever before, and that makes the game realistic. Also, imo if you start at the worst team (now Alfa Romeo just as is the true case sadly this season) I reckon you will have a HORRID time their car is BY FAR the slowest and doesn't even handle well. Game wise it seems to be the same car more or less as last season, so if the real life team really didn't develop the car much that would explain their lack of points xD
Also I am pretty sure their board is ambitious it's a real challenge. As indeed, I expect, is Ferrari I am tempted to try them when my luck at Haas eventually runs out.
So if you intend to play weakest to strongest take Alfa Romeo and not Haas or AlphaTauri.
Or maybe just try something different and play as a midtable team or higher I expect it's honestly tougher than you'd think

[nh2008]

Guys, this F1 manager 2023 game can't be that hard. A Youtuber (NeroBax) show you how to win the championship in season 2 with Alpha Tauri easily. (LOL)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DA9OflF0pg

The game is easy and will stay that way for as long as it lasts:

A. They don't balance the car development module
B. They don't implement a proper sponsor module and financial management

As for longevity:
version 23, like its predecessor, does not perform in this respect. Unfortunately, it lacks the modules and features (with a few exceptions) that would give the game longevity.
It needs variety, constant new challenges and complexity. In contrast, the developers have even been lazy enough to change the 22 set-ups and tyre strategies. That's it for longevity.

[RaelM]

Originally posted by Ngoc:

None of the picture if you winning...

Screenshot 3, there's a guy with an awesome mullet and moustache on the left with a 1st underneath his picture. It also clearly states, Canadian GP Results to the right of said mullet and 'stache and shows 25 points next to his lap times etc.

Originally posted by Ngoc:

...had to min max that is not how people play the game...

All I did was develop parts for particular circuits and manage my cost cap, just like they do in real life. It's a management game, you are supposed to play as a team principal and thus you should run the team as closely or better than they do in real life.

Every team brings out an upgrade package with a circuit or type of circuit in mind, take McLaren's latest upgrade package for example, that was designed around Silverstone but has proved effective elsewhere to but it was primarily a Silverstone upgrade package. It was designed with high speed corners in mind and it does very well in that regard.

No one, at least no one who's competent at management games, shoves all the sliders to the right or leaves them in the middle. You should find out how long a part will take to design, find the closest circuit to that deadline, then go for the next GP after it and designed for that GP. This gives you time to manufacture parts as well as gives you a buffer in case a design centre event pops up and you end up losing valuable design time.

Originally posted by Ngoc:

...I don’t know how much savescum you did...

None, otherwise I wouldn't have had any DNF's but I did. I could've ended with a lot more points on the board if I save scummed but I've never save scummed on a management game and I don't intend to start now, especially when this game is so easy right now.

Originally posted by Ngoc:

...in winning championship with Alfa in 2 years...

I never once stated you could win the championship in 2 seasons, not once. I said you could get on the front row, I never said you could win either of the championships in the 2nd season. You're either misreading what I put or have me mistaken with someone else.

Originally posted by Ngoc:

...3 years is 69 race one hour per race is 70 hours that is longer than many game....

I play at max speed so 3 seasons is nowhere near 70 hours, I'm here to play a management game and not to watch cars drive badly around a circuit. I play Footy Manager at full speed, I played Motorsport Manager at full speed and I played last years F1 Manager at full speed... if I want to watch cars drive badly around a circuit then I'll watch my replays on F1 23 but since I broke one of my pedals, I'll stick to playing F1 Manager 23 at x16.

Originally posted by Ngoc:

...know exactly how to min max out of the box...

I just used what I had learnt from the last game and applied it to this one during my first play through's and I did perfectly fine. My current play through's are more refined as I have a finer grasp on the new mechanics so my results are vastly better but I don't min-max as you put it.

I know from the last game that expertise growth is based on time and intense is a multiplier of expertise (in game tool tip), I also know that since part costs have drastically increased this year that I can't do all intense designs this time around, so I cherry pick the parts that do get intense runs.

I also know that since this is an era of ground effect aerodynamics for F1 and while I'm not Adrian Newey levels of knowledgeable when it comes to this subject, I'm more than capable of understanding which parts will have the most impact for ground effect aerodynamics. As such I developed those parts intensely to gain the most impact from my budget, just like how a real F1 team would prioritise the parts that would provide the biggest impact for the least amount of cost in this current cost cap and ground effect era.

Originally posted by Ngoc:

...So maybe 100 hours if 100 hours is a short game play 1x and is already 200 hours you are all full of crap...

If you intend to play F1 Manager 23 at 1x speed, then sure, for you it won't be a short play through but for those that do use higher speeds then it is going to be significantly shorter. You are not the only person who plays the game, other people play to and other people have different preferences when it comes to the way they wish to enjoy the game, I for example play on x16 and don't save scum.

So as I stated previously, you can create a decent enough of a car to survive the 1st season with Alfa Romeo. In the 2nd season, if you used your CFD and WInd Tunnel time wisely, kept on top of your budget and developed your HQ adequately in preparation for the new season, you can challenge for the front row in qualifying and grab more than enough points to become the second best team on the grid in the championships. The 3rd season, as I stated earlier, you can start consistently winning races with at least your #1 driver. You aren't Jordan, you shouldn't be using two equal drivers, prioritise one over the other, a guaranteed car in the points or on the podium is better than two maybes.

Originally posted by RaelM:

...you can get them on the front row in 2 to 3 seasons, that means beating one of the Red Bulls, you'll have a hard time in season 2 getting past the cheat code that is Verstappen, Perez on the other hand is doable and I have done it with McLaren, Alfa Romeo and Williams, all in season 2, season 3 I was getting race wins consistently with my #1 drivers...

Of course, results may vary, no one is guaranteed to have my levels of success with Alfa Romeo. They may have bad luck with their drivers ending up in the barriers or in big pile ups. They may miss out on safety car pit stops or make a bad strategy call on race day, I've done this myself, something I've learnt from.

They also may do much better than me, I didn't have a spotless first season, both Zhou and Bottas cost me a fair bit in replacement parts, so much so that I had to start using my leftover parts instead of keeping the cars topped up with my best performing parts just so I could afford to get my HQ ready for season 2. I also missed out on a few safety car pit stops and if you know anything about F1 then it should be that a pit stop during a safety car period is essentially a free pit stop, even a VSC (virtual safety car) is time in the bank... it's also free fuel and with the current game engine you're almost guaranteed at least a VSC which is something I learnt very early, this is why I always under fuel my cars, lighter car equals faster car.

Now I've only just got back from a 5 hour drive so I won't be playing any F1 Manager today but as soon as I get around to it I shall post the screenshots of the 2nd season so you can see what Alfa Romeo is capable of.

[nh2008]

I like it, how dominate Yuki and Alpha Tauri in season 2.

NeroBax' show:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2F4sa3iyow