Stuck with progression

[noom_tv]

I seem to be stuck for progression. Here's what I've achieved:
- Can make momma gears and have several
- Have reached "max" speed and have a bank of cash gears
- Can lower torque and am trying to generate ascension
- Understand that connecting to a machine may require power that may reduce total income

And the last point is what I'm stuck on. I can reduce the speed so far that the machine would only require 0.01 load, but then I only gain .01M $/s
My current income is 28.74m $/s and I just can't find a way to push it beyond that, connecting machines either loses money or gains basically nothing, I've bought all the updates I can reasonably afford (next upgrade would cost 27b) and I just don't earn enough to reasonably save up for new upgrades.
I feel like I'm missing something that would help me get over the next exponent hump, what's the point of these machines if connecting to them even at extremely low speed just generates no money? What's the point in total load if using any of it reduces your total income dramatically?
I've attached a few screenshots to show my setup in various places, maybe someone can steer me in the right direction?

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3077942791
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3077942756
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3077942727

[therokito]

your first ascension or 2 will be pretty slow, it speeds up after that, once you feel income is no longer relavent, abandon it and experiment on getting your ascension gain as good as possible. but in the .01 zone is usually where you end up

[noom_tv]

Originally posted by therokito:

your first ascension or 2 will be pretty slow, it speeds up after that, once you feel income is no longer relavent, abandon it and experiment on getting your ascension gain as good as possible. but in the .01 zone is usually where you end up

Are you suggesting that the goal is to just get it's load as low as possible with high torque? Is that the best path for efficiency with machines like this? Just go for lowest load consumption possible? Isn't turns/s important, and wouldn't that be a balance of speed+torque?

[🥀🆉🅰🆃🆃🅸🚯🤕]

for me the best part is to focus on one thing at a time.
on start i just make money to buy the torque upgrades.
after i have a bit of money i start producing big mommas with just ONE manufacturer. because since the last patch the bug is fixed with the manufacturer speed dosent count. so speed is relevant again.
after i placed some big mommas i produce money again with one index machine. also speed count.
at the end if prgress slows down i focus only on the ascend points.

some screens as example.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3078007585
on this scren i focus only on ascend points. all the load is only on the ascend wheel. you can see the big wheel connect on the bottom. i need around 9 min for one cycle.
would i put some load on anything else the speed drops.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3078007554
on this screen you can see i focused only to make money. so all the load goes only on the left index machine. my income jumped from 22m/s to 4,7b/s.
right now i need to much money and time for the next torque upgrade. so i decided to make some ascend points to buy the next upgrades.
would i put just a telekinetic wheel on some other index machine my income would drop to 4,35 b/s because i lose to much load.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3078007506
this is for my momma building. you can see in the middle. the full load only goes in the manufacture. with this build i need around 15 seconds to build a big momma.

so i decide by what will i do.
if i play active i build mommas. after 5-10 minutes i have a lot of mommas to place and use for builds.
if i play inactive after a "fresh" ascend i let make money and buy from time to time upgrades.
after the upgrades need to long and not be worth anymore i start my ascend point production.

i dont know if its the best way. but for me it is the fastest way to make progress.


so to know what you "should" do is to know what you want on your situation right now?!
if you want to stay in your current game you should build more mommas. because they bring a lot of money.
try to figure out how much speed you can use with all your load you have.

after you build some mommas and placed them focus on one index machine and try as fast as possible with close as possible to your full load.

and last if you want to reset. focus on the ascend wheel the same way. look for some upgrades you want. and wait for the points to come in.


sry for my bad writing im not a native speaker and make a lot of mistakes

[Peeps]

Here is my strategy:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3078034630

You make money buy spinning the wheels on the bottom path faster and faster. When the manufacturers are online, they slow down your income by 90%, so turn them off if you need more money. Once you start getting the Momma Gears, use those instead of the BFG for even more income.

[noom_tv]

Yeah not following most of this, hard to see what's going on in the screenshots. with Peeps' build, spinning wheels gears faster than 1,400 doesn't make them generate any more money, and really just makes it more complicated to keep lubricated.
It also seems like "index machines" are doing some kind of multiplier on cash, as when I connect it alone, no matter what torque or speed I can only manage about $200k/s, but if I have a big chain of wheels just spinning and then connect a machine it jumps up by about $10m/s
I've just spent ages getting my first ascension point so I guess I'll see if that helps, maybe I'm just limited by load.

[noom_tv]

ok something just clicked for me, I kept thinking that people were suggesting raw torque was the best way to get things done, so I'd use a compound gear to step down and gain torque, and it wouldn't really work. What I didn't realize is that while this might let you fit more things on with your load, it still reduces the speed and a lot of machines the speed is important.
So what I've realized is the goal is to have high torque at speed 1x, things seem to be going much faster for me when I avoid compounding where possible (like just using a straight momma gear) and getting as much torque as I can without losing speed.

[🥀🆉🅰🆃🆃🅸🚯🤕]

your goal should be to increase your speed. not just stay at speed 1x.
so go step upwards. put a basic wheel and on top of this put a momma wheel. this is the highest speed increase per one step you can have.

now try to put the other big momma on the speed one (not the basic one) and connect it with the index machine. if it dosent kill your load (on your screen above you have only 14 load) increase the speed and try again. if it kills your load decrease the speed.
so maybe just put a big wheel and on top a momma wheel.
work with different speeds to go as close as possible to your load maximum on just one item like the index machine.

just spinning wheels dont take any load. this is why you see on my screen this much mommas on the right side. they just wheel and dont need any load at all.
the index machine is multiplicative to your base income. so the more mommas you just let cycle on max speed somewhere on the map. the bigger kicks the bonus in from the index machine.
this is why my income jumps from raw 22 m/s to nearly 5 b/s.

[Benn120]

A few things that I discovered while in the early game:
1. Either shut down all load systems and run the ascension gear or run the ascension gear and nothing else to drive ascension points when you're ready to move to your next run and kick it over when you're ready. The first ascension point takes a long time (30 minutes or more) but that speeds up drastically as you sink those points. just getting your first one can increase the speed of the next run buy something like 20%. left the game running when I went to sleep on my third run and came back to 35+ points.

2. Faster gears spinning generate more money. Looking at the numbers you have, you could be making a few billion per second with the right gearing (and 'clocks', see next point). There is a cap on it, but you can shift it up to millions of turns/second pretty easily with a few BFG or momma gears. (momma gears are great money makers, especially since their 'cost' doesn't increase like other gears)

3. The money clocks (not the safes, the ones with a clock face) are also key to getting into the billions. There are different loads for different boxes (denoted by appearance). you usually want to drive one or two of the 'plain faced' ones with the lowest load with a momma gear at start. you can experiment with balance on them with switching gears and watching your $/S tracker to find your ideal number of clocks to be running. Lower load clocks (more 'plain faced') seem to have better income/load ratios. Right gearing on these (not too many, not too few running, not too much torque on ea., not too little) can increase your income by factors of 1000 easily.

4. at start, ignore the safe (timer on them when driven), and the ability machines. I have messed around with them all a bunch and never found the torque/time required to run any of them to pay off anywhere near what they cost me in lost income to drive them. I might have missed something or this may change as you move up ascensions, as a bunch of ascension abilities seem to improve their efficiency.

5. When running the ascension gear, Just get your torque ratios to anywhere in the middling numbers. So long as you are running nothing but the gear, your torque amount going into the gear doesn't seem to matter (so long as it is below your max). This is anecdotal btw, the game really needs to tell you ascension speed at AP/hour, then move it to /min and /sec as relevant, so you can investigate effects on it better. Oh well....

Hope some of this helps

[noom_tv]

Originally posted by 🥀🆉🅰🆃🆃🅸🚯🤕:

your goal should be to increase your speed. not just stay at speed 1x.
so go step upwards. put a basic wheel and on top of this put a momma wheel. this is the highest speed increase per one step you can have.

now try to put the other big momma on the speed one (not the basic one) and connect it with the index machine. if it dosent kill your load (on your screen above you have only 14 load) increase the speed and try again. if it kills your load decrease the speed.
so maybe just put a big wheel and on top a momma wheel.
work with different speeds to go as close as possible to your load maximum on just one item like the index machine.

just spinning wheels dont take any load. this is why you see on my screen this much mommas on the right side. they just wheel and dont need any load at all.
the index machine is multiplicative to your base income. so the more mommas you just let cycle on max speed somewhere on the map. the bigger kicks the bonus in from the index machine.
this is why my income jumps from raw 22 m/s to nearly 5 b/s.

I dont think this is the case, I'm actually noticing that increasing the speed or torque with compounds results in less income.

Here's a direct speed 1x momma gear, so supplying my max available torque with no compounds. You can see its making ~300m/s
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3078978837

And here is a single compound step to show an increase in speed (and loss in torque), with reduced income. I think this demonstrates that increasing speed is not ideal
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3078976545

And finally, here is high torque at the cost of speed, this reduces my total load, but the income is still worse
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3078991847

So from experimentation what I'm finding is to just try to keep speed at 1x when possible, because compounding in either direction seems to result in reduced income. So if you have the total load to support 1x on any indexes (or even ascension wheel) you're better off doing that.

[noom_tv]

Originally posted by Benn120:

A few things that I discovered while in the early game:
1. Either shut down all load systems and run the ascension gear or run the ascension gear and nothing else to drive ascension points when you're ready to move to your next run and kick it over when you're ready. The first ascension point takes a long time (30 minutes or more) but that speeds up drastically as you sink those points. just getting your first one can increase the speed of the next run buy something like 20%. left the game running when I went to sleep on my third run and came back to 35+ points.

2. Faster gears spinning generate more money. Looking at the numbers you have, you could be making a few billion per second with the right gearing (and 'clocks', see next point). There is a cap on it, but you can shift it up to millions of turns/second pretty easily with a few BFG or momma gears. (momma gears are great money makers, especially since their 'cost' doesn't increase like other gears)

3. The money clocks (not the safes, the ones with a clock face) are also key to getting into the billions. There are different loads for different boxes (denoted by appearance). you usually want to drive one or two of the 'plain faced' ones with the lowest load with a momma gear at start. you can experiment with balance on them with switching gears and watching your $/S tracker to find your ideal number of clocks to be running. Lower load clocks (more 'plain faced') seem to have better income/load ratios. Right gearing on these (not too many, not too few running, not too much torque on ea., not too little) can increase your income by factors of 1000 easily.

4. at start, ignore the safe (timer on them when driven), and the ability machines. I have messed around with them all a bunch and never found the torque/time required to run any of them to pay off anywhere near what they cost me in lost income to drive them. I might have missed something or this may change as you move up ascensions, as a bunch of ascension abilities seem to improve their efficiency.

5. When running the ascension gear, Just get your torque ratios to anywhere in the middling numbers. So long as you are running nothing but the gear, your torque amount going into the gear doesn't seem to matter (so long as it is below your max). This is anecdotal btw, the game really needs to tell you ascension speed at AP/hour, then move it to /min and /sec as relevant, so you can investigate effects on it better. Oh well....

Hope some of this helps

I dont see any difference in the faces of the money clocks? Also I have figured out that just free spinning wheels (momma's if you've got em, BFG's otherwise) are great money makers, and the max speed seems to be like 400 or something.
I've just connected to a handful of money wheels though and just don't see any difference, maybe I'm missing something.

[noom_tv]

Originally posted by noom_tv:

I dont see any difference in the faces of the money clocks? Also I have figured out that just free spinning wheels (momma's if you've got em, BFG's otherwise) are great money makers, and the max speed seems to be like 400 or something.
I've just connected to a handful of money wheels though and just don't see any difference, maybe I'm missing something.

Scratch that, I found them. The easiest way to check their load is to grab a telekenetic gear and just mouse over their activation zones. It'll show the load they would add, giving you an idea of their difficulty. There are 4, 6 and 8 load cash machines.

The best thing for me at my current total load is to go from telekenetic gear right onto a momma, directly onto the money machine. And I get the most $/s from load 4 machines.

[🥀🆉🅰🆃🆃🅸🚯🤕]

Originally posted by noom_tv:

I dont think this is the case, I'm actually noticing that increasing the speed or torque with compounds results in less income.

thats right and wrong the same time.....

after seeing this thread i have tested now a bit with the speed and income.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/2285820/discussions/0/3952532649322972778/

your example with speed x1
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3079034760
as you can see on the screen i make 3.9 b/s with a load of 0.71/56.25

now an example with way more speed x63.3.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3079037822
as you can see i make 4.97 b/s. this is far better per second. with a load of 45/56.25


but way better profit i make with a speed of x11.2.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3079034683
as you can see it is the biggest income of all 3 screens.
i have tested a bit. to a point around load 8/56.25 it increase the income. but with load 10 i have already an income drop.


maybe test it by your own.

put a kinetic wheel down. on it put a big wheel. on top of this big wheel put a momma to increase the speed. and now connect a momma to the faster momma (not the big wheel) and the machine. is the income increased or decreased?

right now you havent this much max load. this makes its harder for you to find the sweet spot.

[Benn120]

Originally posted by 🥀🆉🅰🆃🆃🅸🚯🤕:

Right behind you on the leaderboard bud... 7 AP behind at time of writing :P

Race you to the top

[Benn120]

I'm thinking I might chart some of the info for the money clocks when I get the 2T/level upgrade in a few hours. They're definitely key to optimising income. Watch this space, I'll bring graphs.

[🥀🆉🅰🆃🆃🅸🚯🤕]

Originally posted by Benn120:

Originally posted by 🥀🆉🅰🆃🆃🅸🚯🤕:

Right behind you on the leaderboard bud... 7 AP behind at time of writing :P

Race you to the top

for me right now im ahead 31 points
but 160 points rdy to cash in right now. my goal are a few points more before i ascend again.
maybe i should eat a banana and drop the banana peel