I can't beat Belhifet (There be *Spoilers* ahead, matey)

[FailedSave]

There has been a thread about how the Greater Wolfwere is broken.
I submit that Siege of Dragonsperear Belhifet is broken too.

As evidence, consider:

• You need +3 weapons to hit and aren't told that. If playing the game through without following a guide, how would you know that you even are going to meet something like Belhifet?
  
  
• You need +3 weapons and there aren't many. You can get either a sword or a staff. But what if you need a mace? Well, too bad. You can get some +3 arrows if you talk to the right people before going into the last fight. But if you don't get them, well, you can't go back so you're just hosed. Corwin was using a short sword, because no +3 arrows. She isn't proficient in short sword. Minsc gets the +3 long sword, but is also not proficient. It's OK. But, not great. As for my main (cleric/mu).. nothin'. My thief... nothing. So, there's that.
  
  
• According to the wiki, Belhifet has 350 HP and hits at level 25. So like a to-hit of 8 will hit most of my best characters.
  
  
• You start in a new map square, which means all your summoned creatures vanish. This kills me, since my main is C/M and relies on summoned creatures.
  
  
• There is a big cut scene video at the start. I hate that. I'm running a C/M. And suddenly, I'm i the middle of mele combat? Like, I'd do that? Of course, you don't have much choice because you are on that silly elevator. So, you are kind of set up to fail. Sure I pop some protection spells. And ok, I can pre-prep. But still... how can you pre-prep everything? Given that the durations wear off. Oh, and Belhifet will cast dispel magic, so you will lose some buffs on one character no matter what you do.
  
  
• It isn't enough to deal with Belhifet, you have to fight the mage too.
  
  
• And Belhifet gates in demons. Cuz, you know, otherwise it would be too easy.

Yeah, I know there's always someone who says "Pft: I did this with a 3rd level Bard with no weapons on the first try". But seriously, I've played BG since I got the original box set. I've ran more parties than I can count.
But this fight.... I can't ever get through it. I've even cheated a bit. This run,I gave Misc a saving throw of 1 on all his saves. And 50% magic resistance. He got held in the first round. Seriously.

It just seems like the encounter is broken.
Right?

How do y'all get through it? (especially if you aren't running a fighter-strong party)?

[wendigo211]

Feeblemind. It's how I beat him on LoB difficulty. I had to hit him with a couple of lower resistances first and it took a bit lots of savescumming, but he eventually failed his save and then it was an easier fight. He still teleports around and gates in demons, but at least he doesn't do fighting on his own.

Also make sure you're buffed to the hilt: haste, 25 strength, any potions that lower your THAC0 (IIRC, Potions of Heroism and Potions of Power both do this). I've done it solo on Insane with a Kensai and Berserker and that's how they managed it. There are a few +3 weapons, but some of them like World's Edge (Two-Handed Sword) and the Shadow's Blade (Shortsword) have to be ported over from BG. You can use the Enchanted Weapon spell to temporarily raise the enchantment level on a weapon to +3 as well.

You could also convince Caelar to fight for you, she has a +3 weapon. So, if you can keep her alive, she can deal a good amount of damage.

Having typed that, this is the hardest fight in the entire saga bar none.

[Knight Silver]

Originally posted by wendigo211:

Feeblemind. It's how I beat him on LoB difficulty. I had to hit him with a couple of lower resistances first and it took a bit lots of savescumming, but he eventually failed his save and then it was an easier fight. He still teleports around and gates in demons, but at least he doesn't do fighting on his own.

Also make sure you're buffed to the hilt: haste, 25 strength, any potions that lower your THAC0 (IIRC, Potions of Heroism and Potions of Power both do this). I've done it solo on Insane with a Kensai and Berserker and that's how they managed it. There are a few +3 weapons, but some of them like World's Edge (Two-Handed Sword) and the Shadow's Blade (Shortsword) have to be ported over from BG. You can use the Enchanted Weapon spell to temporarily raise the enchantment level on a weapon to +3 as well.

You could also convince Caelar to fight for you, she has a +3 weapon. So, if you can keep her alive, she can deal a good amount of damage.

Having typed that, this is the hardest fight in the entire saga bar none.

Now I want to try the expansion just to see what everyone's talking about

[happykathykat]

The Wand of Frost worked very well on him.

[red255]

As evidence, consider:

• You need +3 weapons to hit and aren't told that. If playing the game through without following a guide, how would you know that you even are going to meet something like Belhifet?
  
  -you only need +3 weapons on Core rules. If you play on COre and don't know core rules thats on you. on Normal I think its +2.
  
  
• You need +3 weapons and there aren't many.
  
  Enchant weapon turns any weapon into +3. Corywyn with arrows of the void +3 basically solo's the fight anyways, I think by Str 0 ing the boss. she kills him outright.
  
  
• According to the wiki, Belhifet has 350 HP and hits at level 25. So like a to-hit of 8 will hit most of my best characters.
  
  He usually hits with his fear and fire attacks, so fire resistance and fear resistance and hold resistance and I'm not sure he attacks physically teleporting around like a twit all the time.
  
  
• You start in a new map square, which means all your summoned creatures vanish. This kills me, since my main is C/M and relies on summoned creatures.
  
  OK, and? your summon creatures unless they are resistant to fire would die anyways. I mean I get you made a piece of ♥♥♥♥ but how is that on the boss.
  
  
  
• There is a big cut scene video at the start. I hate that. I'm running a C/M. And suddenly, I'm i the middle of mele combat? Like, I'd do that? Of course, you don't have much choice because you are on that silly elevator. So, you are kind of set up to fail. Sure I pop some protection spells. And ok, I can pre-prep. But still... how can you pre-prep everything? Given that the durations wear off. Oh, and Belhifet will cast dispel magic, so you will lose some buffs on one character no matter what you do.
  
  Pretty sure potions of fire resistance last like 3 hours, and scrolls last 12 hours. and gear lasts forever. Honestly this wasn't an issue for me. I didn't cast spells so much as drink potions, can't remember exactly what I drank but wasn't too affected by the dispel.
  
  
• It isn't enough to deal with Belhifet, you have to fight the mage too.
  
  
  
  
• And Belhifet gates in demons. Cuz, you know, otherwise it would be too easy.

---

Blah blah, Basically Corwyn, potion of mind focusing dex to 25, arrows of the void +3, easy fight.

[FailedSave]

Originally posted by red255:

As evidence, consider:


---
Blah blah, Basically Corwyn, potion of mind focusing dex to 25, arrows of the void +3, easy fight.

so you just happened to have 25 +3 arrows of the void with you? And Corwyn didn't get whacked, charmed, de-buffed, held, killed, stunned, etc. before bringing him down?

that falls under the "I beat him with a 3rd level bard in my first try" comment.

I did finally win the battle.
But.. I'm sticking to my "this is stuuuupid" position.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Not the only battle in the BG/IWD series that is like that. Reloading a few times may be necessary, especially with poor saving throws and RNG madness. It's still games that aim at players who do completionist playthroughs and then arrive with good equipment, sufficient character abilities and consumables to do the job - or who read up on what will be necessary and then prepare accordingly in advance.

And indeed, the void shard can be turned into 80 void arrows - which one will save for really nasty fights obviously.

[red255]

Originally posted by FailedSave:

Originally posted by red255:

As evidence, consider:


---
Blah blah, Basically Corwyn, potion of mind focusing dex to 25, arrows of the void +3, easy fight.

so you just happened to have 25 +3 arrows of the void with you? And Corwyn didn't get whacked, charmed, de-buffed, held, killed, stunned, etc. before bringing him down?

that falls under the "I beat him with a 3rd level bard in my first try" comment.

I did finally win the battle.
But.. I'm sticking to my "this is stuuuupid" position.

I think she had a ring of free action and fire resistance, and someone had the armor of command on to resist fear.

I didn't have issue with the other things, might have cast chaotic commands just for insurance (from a scroll) or protection from Evil

but yeah, provided you clicked the rock in the dragonspear fortress, and got the void rock, the arrows are the BEST item to get from that and this location is the BEST place to use them.

was saving my +3 ammo for this fight, and was surprised when he just kinda dies.

you crank her fire resistance and free action she shouldnt get smashed. Potion of fortitude maybe? Heroism? power?

I got a whole lot of potions by that point.

potions, scrolls and items. use them.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Though, Voidsword +3 or Voidhammer +3 make it to BG2EE - and one can import any SOD savegame file, not just a final save.

[red255]

when do you actually USE voidsword or void hammer in BG2?

[Millstone85]

Originally posted by red255:

when do you actually USE voidsword or void hammer in BG2?

Or in SoD, for that matter. I could accept the malus to strength, but these also get no Str-based bonus to hit or damage in the first place? Worthless.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by red255:

when do you actually USE voidsword or void hammer in BG2?

Just like I use a variety of other weapons in this CRPG, regardless of whether they are considered popular, optimal, overpowered, whatever.

[red255]

so when offered a choice between a useless sword you get to keep (to remind you of your bad choice) and an extremely useful ammo for the final fight, you chose the sword.

thats OK, but you should take the arrows.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by red255:

so when offered a choice between a useless sword you get to keep (to remind you of your bad choice) and an extremely useful ammo for the final fight, you chose the sword.

thats OK, but you should take the arrows.

That implies meta-gaming - but I may not be willing to choose the arrows if I cannot foresee what they will do (or how many I will get) and if party members are proficient with sword or hammer. There are similar choices in IWD's Heart of Winter expansion.

The BG games feature a multitude of items that are of interest to role-players. Just as I play with non-optimal characters (not rolling 18s or super-human STR, but accepting random rolls and wasting tons of bonuses), I choose weapons and other equipment as part of the role-playing. Like multi-class fighter/mage using quarterstaves. Yes, other players would always plan ahead for seemingly overpowered characters wielding Flail of Ages +5, Crom Faeyr +5, Carsomyr +5 and other well-known weapons - but there are so many other choices. For example, often I stick to the Mace of Disruption +2 as role-playing choice. Or I use halberds instead of two-handed swords. Or I don't continue into ToB because I end after SoA depending on party setup.

[Julius Borisov]

Moved to the SoD section.

[gallaghan2000]

Eh, I'm with the guy who made this thread on this one. As it also pretty much falls into the same design issues as werewolf island (needing either bastard sword or dagger prof to even have a chance at killing the greater werewolf).

It's even worse, despite being able to use corwyn (w/ archers eyes, bless belt, chant ring, gauntlets weapon expertise, void arrows) simply because you're expecting to just be able to use 90% of these cool weapons you've found on the way (except for m'kiins uniques which were ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ SJ ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥).

I think the thing that pisses me off the most is that the player desperately needed access to more thieves than just Jan in BG2, then they just give us Hexxat and call it a day. Why the hell didn't they make it possible to save and recruit Clara?

Also, why can't you get Caelar in ToB?

whatever, i just need to go play something else.