Archer build

[blau9686]

I am a noob.
Which is better between a ranger with archer kit and a fighter with long bow grand mastery?
Thanks fot the answers!

[Centurion]

Archer. All the way.

Archer gains +1/+1 every three levels (which really adds up) on top of grand mastery in bows (only.) Toss in items that enhance bows, as well as enchanted bows and arrows, and the elven racial and DEX advantages and you eventually are getting like 4.5 attacks a round that do 20-30 damage, It's sick. The only downside is there are a handful of "ambush" fights, mostly in BG2, where you have to fight with a sword and are only proficient and wearing leather armor. Oh, and even early you get the "Called Shot" which can really whittle down tough enemies (reduces their abilities on top of the arrow damage.) I finished a run with an elven archer recently, and it was really awesome!

The fighter would get most, but not all, of these abilities. No called shots or progressive +1/+1 (which could reach +11/+11 by the end of BG2!) In return you can wear heavier armor, which only matters really for melee. Any bow-using character really does not need heavy armor. Also, again in BG2, you could achieve a second grand mastery in a melee weapon eventually. You will do well with either (all warriors are a good idea for Noobs. Much easier to play and survive.) However, if you are committed to ranged combat, which is a good strategy, the Archer wins every time!

One last note: BG1 is made for ranged combat (totally.) But the better bows in this game are longbows and crossbows. Powergamers (I am one, but not to the extreme) will tell you the best bows in BG2 are short bows and you should emphasize skill in those to dominate that game. I have never been too impressed by the strategy of crippling your bow use in the first game, just to gain a somewhat better bow in the second game. (I prefer to equip my thieves, who can only use short bows, with those super bows. They need the help.) By somewhat, I mean a few more points and no need for arrows, The Gesen Bow is great, but I did fine using the Strong Arm bow and Taralash.

[wendigo211]

For archery, the Archer since it can get Grandmastery with Bows and X-Bows and it gets a +1 to hit and damage every 3 levels. The Fighter can wear better armor and will be better in melee though.

For ranged combat the Kensai with throwing knives is a bit better since it also gets a +1 to hit and damage every 3 levels, it can get grand mastery with throwing knives and it can add its strength bonus to damage.

In BG the Kensai also has a better AC, since the Shield Amulet with the Ring of Protection +2 is the best AC combo for both the Archer and Kensai and the Kensai gets an additional +2 to AC as part of its kit.

[wendigo211]

Originally posted by Centurion:

The fighter would get most, but not all, of these abilities. No called shots or progressive +1/+1 (which could reach +11/+11 by the end of BG2!)

The archer's damage/hit bonus caps at +9. It's +1 every three levels to level 18 and then +1 every 5 levels capping at +9 at level 33.

[Centurion]

Originally posted by wendigo211:

Originally posted by Centurion:

The fighter would get most, but not all, of these abilities. No called shots or progressive +1/+1 (which could reach +11/+11 by the end of BG2!)

The archer's damage/hit bonus caps at +9. It's +1 every three levels to level 18 and then +1 every 5 levels capping at +9 at level 33.

Oops, I forgot. Still awesome kit, and possibly easier for noobies.

[blau9686]

Thanks for the answers.
I want to submit you what's in my mind...
I'd like to create a party with a melee fighter, a paladin and a cleric in the front row and an archer, a mage and Imoen in the back row.
I was thinking that maybe if I build a fighter-thief with the long bow grandmastery instead of an archer-ranger, I'll have the possibility of splitting the thief abilities between MC and Imoen so that I can dual class her earlier, plus the advantage of more efficient back stab attacks.
Am I wrong?

[wendigo211]

If you're willing to use EEKeeper, make a Fighter and dual class it to Swashbuckler (normally you can only apply a kit to your first class, but with EEKeeper you can apply it to your second class). Swashbuckler gets a bonus to hit, damage and AC every 5 levels and since it uses the Thief XP table it should have no trouble hitting level 39 for a +7 bonus.

Remember, if you want grand mastery, it has to be a dual class character, since multi-class fighter/thieves can only get specialization.

[blau9686]

Originally posted by wendigo211:

If you're willing to use EEKeeper, make a Fighter and dual class it to Swashbuckler (normally you can only apply a kit to your first class, but with EEKeeper you can apply it to your second class). Swashbuckler gets a bonus to hit, damage and AC every 5 levels and since it uses the Thief XP table it should have no trouble hitting level 39 for a +7 bonus.

Remember, if you want grand mastery, it has to be a dual class character, since multi-class fighter/thieves can only get specialization.

Thanks again. I don't (want to) use mods or cheats. So, what's better? Should I go with a fighter-thief despite of his limitations or pick an archer and keep Imoen as pure thief or maybe you suggest to re-balance my party in an other way?

[wendigo211]

It depends on what you want, it's basically a question of utility (Fighter/Thief) vs. power (Archer). The Thief HLAs (Spike Trap, Time Trap and Use Any Item) are very good so having someone who can use them is helpful. Your only other choices for those HLAs are Hexxat, Jan Jansen and possibly Sarevok (who can be dual classed to a Thief). The Archer does drop off a bit at high level. IIRC, the last time I played one, my kill percentage dropped off about 20% in ToB.

[voehringer_nitron]

I'm working on an Archer in part 2 now. Their to hit and damage bonus from the kit also applies to throwing weapons, so axe and dagger make good choices. Azuredege is a nice axe that does double damage to undead, with a save or be destroyed effect. Its range is shorter than other throwing axes, though. You can buy (or steal) it very early in chapter 2. Couple other throwing axes available. For dagger you can pickpocket the Boomerang dagger fairly early (or do a quest via the level 7 spell Limited Wish) and buy Firetooth in chapter 5.

The strategy guide I have for part 2 suggested focusing on long bow, but I would recommend short bow or crossbow. Short bow has Tansheron's bow (available chapter 2) and Gesen bow (chapter 5), creating unlimited +3 and +4 arrows respectively. Crossbow has Firetooth (chapter 2) which creates +4 bolts.

I also had an Archer as one of my characters on the disc based version. Having made other characters before, I put my proficiency points into short bow since there were no comparable long bows that created their own enchanted ammo and this was before Throne of Bhaal was released, which added in Firetooth. I decided to go with crossbow this time, though. Gesen averages out to doing a bit more damage, but takes a while to acquire.

[Wicket W. Warrick]

Originally posted by blau9686:

Thanks again. I don't (want to) use mods or cheats. So, what's better? Should I go with a fighter-thief despite of his limitations or pick an archer and keep Imoen as pure thief or maybe you suggest to re-balance my party in an other way?

For a first walkthrough I would choose an archer, it makes the first game easier. You can think how to manage ToB later.
Consider that the archer can cover also the stealth ability that gives a high strategical advantage, anche that gains divine spells.

[Centurion]

Originally posted by Wicket W. Warrick:

Originally posted by blau9686:

Thanks again. I don't (want to) use mods or cheats. So, what's better? Should I go with a fighter-thief despite of his limitations or pick an archer and keep Imoen as pure thief or maybe you suggest to re-balance my party in an other way?

For a first walkthrough I would choose an archer, it makes the first game easier. You can think how to manage ToB later.
Consider that the archer can cover also the stealth ability that gives a high strategical advantage, anche that gains divine spells.

I second this. First run you want easy. Any straight fighter (ranger, paladin) or Archer are great classes that are easy to learn and very survivable. Cavaliers are harder (running one now), and beastmaster, wizard slayer, and especially kensai need a lot more skill and finesse. Also, most of your multi-classes. Many will argue that a high-level mage, or cleric/mage, are things of power to behold, but that is definitely advanced play. I like the Fighter/Thief a lot, but Archer is simpler and more powerful.

Also, don't overdo that front line. The formations button has one option for three in the front (an inverted "T"), but for most players two tanks in front is all you need, especially with some powerful ranged weapons behind them. (I did my Archer run with a single tank!) Also, pure clerics are boring and only half-tanks. They can take the damage, but are poor at dishing it out without buffs like Draw on Holy Might. In BG2 they get a lot better with spells and you would not want them in the front row anymore.

[blau9686]

Ok, thanks to your advices, I've opted for an archer. Now the next question is: how should I develop Imoen? Full thief or thief-mage after maxing out lockpicking and discovering traps?

[blau9686]

Originally posted by Centurion:

Also, don't overdo that front line. The formations button has one option for three in the front (an inverted "T"), but for most players two tanks in front is all you need, especially with some powerful ranged weapons behind them. (I did my Archer run with a single tank!) Also, pure clerics are boring and only half-tanks. They can take the damage, but are poor at dishing it out without buffs like Draw on Holy Might. In BG2 they get a lot better with spells and you would not want them in the front row anymore.

I've noticed that clerics are not that strong in damage dealing, but I prefer a more defensive approach. Am I going to have problems in advanced game?

[Wicket W. Warrick]

Originally posted by blau9686:

Ok, thanks to your advices, I've opted for an archer. Now the next question is: how should I develop Imoen? Full thief or thief-mage after maxing out lockpicking and discovering traps?

I usually develop her as full thief. You lack thief abilities at low level. Also without stealth, still set snare and discover illusions are useful abilities (pickpocket can be done through potions). Furthermore you would need another thief for the recovering time.

Originally posted by blau9686:

I've noticed that clerics are not that strong in damage dealing, but I prefer a more defensive approach. Am I going to have problems in advanced game?

No, no problems. A cleric makes a perfect tank, better in advanced game, and even better in BG2, except late game (but at that poin he has many other uses).
Use the cleric as a tank (if you play with NPcs you can find Branwen quite early) , with full armor, shield and use buffs to increase power. Use the fighter to deal damage (dual wielding). But the archer will do more than 50% of killings, so don't worry.

One thing: if you play with NPCs, in BG2 you take only MC with you, all the NPCs have their abilities set anew. So you don't need to care about theri development for the second game.

[EmotionallyBroken]

Archer is about as OP as sorcerer... just ... not so great to solo